Peter J Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Recently I decided to run a few of my DCC chipped Graham Farish Loco's 3x Class 57's and a EWS Class 66. All 4 loco's worked fine following chip install and testing. Imagine my surprise when the first three i tried did not move on the track? My first thought was something wrong with my DCC set up, before the fourth loco worked okay! Surprise surprise split gears 2x 57 with one split 16 tooth gear each and the 66 had two split 16 tooth gears in the same bogie!! I had spent £12.00 a while back replenishing my supply of 12 & 16 tooth gears from BR Lines, so found it no trouble to repair the loco's and in 30 minutes or so they were all happily running my test track again! I don't have a layout built yet but thoroughly test and run in my locos on my large oval of Kato track. I only have 1x 16 tooth gear and 3x 12 tooth gears left! I also have a few cracked loco cases so thought I would contact Bachmann Customer Service explain the problem with the split gears and ask if I could purchase a few replacement loco cases at the same time! I was put through by reception to customer service and a polite chap whom I won't name listened to my questions, including my suggestion that I was perfectly capable of repairing the split gears but didn't see why I should keep having to buy them for a known fault! The chap stated he would need to find answers to my questions and put me on hold for a few minutes all perfectly acceptable. Unfortunately when he came back to the phone I was advised the cases are not for sale! not the end of the world but frustrating! but the reason I was given for my gears splitting was because "I was not running my loco's enough"? I suggested this was ridiculous and does not happen to my Dapol Loco's, my Kato Loco's, my Tomic loco's (yes, I have the Thomas The tank Engine loco's!) So basically Bachmann are happy to keep selling us replacement gears or better still for those without the time or knowledge, sending in their treasured loco's for repair at considerable expense! Now I know this has been talked about before, infact if you search RM Web for "Graham Farish split gears"the results are staggering, 8 results per page x 10 pages that's 80 articles with reference to problems WE have had in the past and are continuing to have now with the gears continually splitting in our Graham Farish loco's! Bachmann need to get their head out the sand, admit to the problem and stop taking additional money from their customer for repairing an obvious fault with their product! But I guess they have not done this up to know even with 80 articles posted so far to RM Web. I guess thats the luxury of a captive market. Bring on the RevolutioN I say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) The split gear issue caused a stink in the On30 world and Bachmann send replacements out for free including extra parts. This includes Bachmann UK btw. Edited October 28, 2016 by Elvinley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Bachmann need to get their head out the sand, admit to the problem and stop taking additional money from their customer for repairing an obvious fault with their product! But I guess they have not done this up to know even with 80 articles posted so far to RM Web. I guess thats the luxury of a captive market. Bring on the RevolutioN I say. What did you use to lubricate these gears? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crompton Power Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Can't help with the split gears, had plenty of my own break. But if you are still after plastic case that the loco's come in, Cheltenham Models had some for sale recently at the Wigan exhibition, can't remember the price, but didn't seem reasonable. Think they were doing buy 4 get a 5th free. Keith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted October 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2016 Admin - Removed posting Stephen Any such claim has to be reasonable. There is no legal definition of reasonable in this context. If you bought a loco that had a split gear within a month, you'd definitely have grounds to demand replacement as not fit for purpose. If it happened after 2 years your case is diminished, and after 5 I'd argue that you have no case. You can't use it as an excuse arbitrarily on anything that breaks, otherwise what's to stop you returning a broken 30 year old washing machine on the grounds of it "not being fit for purpose"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 There are practical limits, a 30 year old product claim would obviously thrown out, but not a production item that seems to have a history of going wrong. If free replacements are done, then all is well, but not all buyers are going to be able to fit them. Bachmann will offer help I am pretty sure, but the continuance of the problem is worrying, they are not learning lessons. The problem is the use of mouldings that have a flaw line where the injected plastic meets in the mould, hot enough, no problem, to cold and a weak line develops, aggravated by pushing the gear on to too small a shaft etc. Lubrication makes no difference to Nylon type gears, as nylon is immune to all solvents in common use and resists all oils. The best lubricant is silicone oil and grease. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted October 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2016 But it's just not that simple. On an item over 6 months old the burden of proof is on you to prove the item was not fit for purpose. You can't just send Bachmann a pile of locos with split gears and demand replacement, or say that you'll see them in court. Within 6 months you'd be hard pushed to request a refund not a repair too, given the small cost and low effort involved in a repair. It is a problem, for sure, but there are definitely some environmental factors. I've got about 30 Farish locos, two purchased with split gears, and they're the only ones to date which have suffered it. I've heard temperature shifts being blamed, as the axles expand the inflexible gears split. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Why is it that the On30 locos are seen as faulty enough to warrant free replacement parts and not N gauge? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Lubrication makes no difference to Nylon type gears, as nylon is immune to all solvents in common use and resists all oils. The best lubricant is silicone oil and grease. I was under the impression that 'mineral' based oils will leach the plasticizer out of plastics making them go brittle and prone to cracking over time. And that is why Bachmann always recommend 'synthetic' based oils for lubrication (listing some in their instructions). G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 You would be surprised at the number of people who still think that WD40 is an acceptable lubricant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Robert Shrives Posted October 29, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 29, 2016 Well, I have several hundred N locos all having been run and stored etc for over 40 years and I am resigned that all the older ones only have sentimental value as all 4 or 6 axles will be split and are not really worth changing given cost. The brass ones of really "olden days" are fine and the white nylon not that bad but the rest have been a PITA. With more than anecdotal advice on gears it continues to be a shame that Bachmann have not found a solution in the last decade that really works and lasts. I have had all sizes fail over time and little logic and yes used suitable oils and never any War department product! - but have seen and repaired ones that have been plastered... It would be good if the Barwell team took a few minutes to create a presentation on the how whys etc and hopefully a resolution, it must be a pain to keep having the conversation and managing spares and changeouts due to a design/ manufacturer failing that has lasted almost a work lifetime. Robert ( Aged 54 first N loco a Farish Holden tank in the 70s, rapidly followed by a Minitrix Warship - still got both and they still run.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 What did you use to lubricate these gears? I use MaGer Lubricating Oil States its "Especially for Model Railways & Sot Cars etc." "Plastics Compatible" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 Can't help with the split gears, had plenty of my own break. But if you are still after plastic case that the loco's come in, Cheltenham Models had some for sale recently at the Wigan exhibition, can't remember the price, but didn't seem reasonable. Think they were doing buy 4 get a 5th free. Keith. Thanks, I will contact them and see if they still have any for sale. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 Why is it that the On30 locos are seen as faulty enough to warrant free replacement parts and not N gauge? That's interesting, i don't know anything about On30 does this scale use the same axles and gears as n gauge? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 No Pete, it is narrow gauge running on 00 track but there were serious split gear issues with many locos. I have seen it myself on my locos and have had replacement parts sent with no quibble at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 (edited) http://wtfrr.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/Bachmann-on30-gearbox-problems-are.html?m=1 So a petition may be the way forward. Edited October 29, 2016 by Elvinley 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 Any such claim has to be reasonable. There is no legal definition of reasonable in this context. If you bought a loco that had a split gear within a month, you'd definitely have grounds to demand replacement as not fit for purpose. If it happened after 2 years your case is diminished, and after 5 I'd argue that you have no case. You can't use it as an excuse arbitrarily on anything that breaks, otherwise what's to stop you returning a broken 30 year old washing machine on the grounds of it "not being fit for purpose"? Interesting that Stephen's first post was removed by administration, I'm not sure why? Unfortunately I don't think Bachmann listen to individuals, from the telephone call i had with them 27.10.2016 in which I believe I stated a reasonable case. I was basically fobbed off and frankly felt offended hence my first post! I feel given the overwhelming evidence written here and other forums of Bachmann customers continuing to suffer problems with gears splitting in Graham Farish Loco's, to be told by Bachmann Customer Service "the reason the gears were splitting in my locos, is because I am not running them at least once a fortnight"! Some might say that I could simply stop buying Graham Farish products but that means I suffer. I really enjoy my hobby and Graham Farish products play a huge part in that, like I said previously when a business has a captive audience etc! I think a better way is to try and appeal to Bachmann's integrity and sense of responsibility, they certainly know about this problem! All they have to do is publicly admit it and set out their plans to resolve it! I for one would respect them and quickly move on. Currently we are paying £100+ for loco's that may or may not work the next time we put them on our track? Where else would this be acceptable? I believe this action would go along way to restoring customer confidence and improve sales! It worked for VW Audi they finally came clean about a whopper recently, people are still buying VW Audi cars! The only other way I can see is that the model rail press & the N-Gauge society etc publicly lobby Bachmann over this matter but is the will to do this there? Like I said before .60p to £1.00 per gear is very frustrating to me but not the end of the world. I feel very sorry for our fellow hobbyists who can't make the repairs themselves for whatever reason and get charged considerable sums including P&P which is very expensive to get their precious loco's fixed! Or am I just being a softy? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 http://wtfrr.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/Bachmann-on30-gearbox-problems-are.html?m=1 So a petition may be the way forward. I fear this may have to be the way forward unless Bachmann announce to resolve the problem on the strength of these posts! Thats if they actually read the posts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Well it certainly worked for the On30 loco problem and it is exactly the same issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 I was under the impression that 'mineral' based oils will leach the plasticizer out of plastics making them go brittle and prone to cracking over time. And that is why Bachmann always recommend 'synthetic' based oils for lubrication (listing some in their instructions). G. Looking at some of my G/F loco information sheets, they state "Lubrication, when required, sparingly lubricate the motor bearings using plastic comparable light oil and the gear train with model grease. Suitable lubricants are Bachmann E-Z Lube item 99984 or Woodland Scenics "Hobbylube" Lite Oil item HL654." I have been using MaGeR which states its "Plastics Compatible" Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted October 29, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 29, 2016 Hi The issue is a manufacturing one and is caused by the method used to fit the gears to the axles. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 Hi The issue is a manufacturing one and is caused by the method used to fit the gears to the axles. Cheers Paul We just need Bachmann to come clean about it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daftbovine Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 If locos are supposed to be run every two weeks then I'm in real trouble. I have a quite large collection of N gauge locos, mainly Farish and a rather a small layout. I don't run all my locos on a regular basis. I can't believe I'm the only one. Touch wood, I only have one loco with split gears, a class 33 diesel bought second hand. It sounds as though I have been remarkably lucky so far. I have always thought that sudden stops and changes in direction might cause split gears, what do others think? Could temperature have an effect on gears? If for instance a layout and locos were housed in a garden shed, loft or garage with extremes of temperature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted October 29, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 29, 2016 Could temperature have an effect on gears? If for instance a layout and locos were housed in a garden shed, loft or garage with extremes of temperature. Hi I would think so as metal and plastic expand at different rates. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 As a matter of interest, I had a look on BR Lines web site to establish the price fellow hobbyist are charged for a repair to their Graham Farish Loco's with one split gear! To post a small parcel 2nd class proof of postage only is currently £2.85 (no insurance) BR Lines charges £14.50 plus cost of parts say £1.00 for a gear and VAT £3.10 plus return postage £3.20 total £24.65 plus the risk the loco being lost in the post! Wow! This is in no way a criticism of what BR Lines are charging and £14.50 + VAT includes a full service (plugs oil and filters! sorry couldn't resist!) But seriously nearly £25.00 every time someone not capable of repairing a split gear in their Graham Farish Loco! come on! I would be interested to find out what Bachmann charge to repair a split gear? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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