Gane-Changing Locos in British N

[Tim H]

We've already got a discussion on ground-breaking 00 locos, how about an equivalent thread for N?

 

To set the ball rolling:

 

Lone Star D5000 (class 24). Lone Star were just a little too far ahead of their time in 1960, but their two British-outline diesels were pioneering models, despite their rather crude mechanisms.

 

Minitrix Warship. Though crude by today's standards and had dimensional compromises to fit a continental chassis, it was as good as any British-outline diesel or electric model before the 1980s, With its robust and reliable mechanism it was the workhorse of many a layout in the early years of British N

 

Peco/Rivarossi Jubilee. Credited with establishing 1:148 scale, it was way ahead of its time in terms of detail and accuracy. A bold step for Peco for commissioning this in the very early days of the scale.

 

Graham Farish class 47. This loco marked the point where Graham Farish went from a bit player to becoming the flagship British N manufacturer. In a different league to any main-line diesels before that point.

 

Dapol 45XX. The entry to Dapol into the marketplace forced Farish to raise their game. Though the mechanism leaves something to be desired today, in terms of detail and fidelity it was way ahead of any other steam outline model on the market at the time.

 

RevolutioN Pendolino. A game-changer in terms of business models, introducing the concept of crowdfunded models to the marketplace.

[Karhedron]

Actually Dapol's first N gauge loco was the 4800/1400 auto tanks.

 

Peco's 2551 was very nearly a game changer but the extra price for mandatory DCC onboard put many people off (despite factory fitted DCC becoming a standard option  just a few years later). It also suffered from an oversized tender which was stretched to fit in the motor and DCC chip. Ironically, Peco would have done better modelling the members of the class that were paired with the large ROD tenders. They could then have released other ROD locos using the same tender. I guess this is more of a near-miss than a true game changer.

 

 

 

 

[woodenhead]

The game changer in N was the V2 - it was the first new locomotive from Bachmann Farish - it was abysmal as nothing had really changed, then along came Dapol and forced Bachmann to look again at what was being produced in N -  away went the V2 and in came improved fidelity of models.

 

Again forced into it by Peco and DCC in the Collett - eventually Farish began putting in DCC boards even though at first you had to hard wire them, even Dapol had to play catch up in this respect.

 

Whereas in OO new models came about with greater fidelity starting with Palitoy Mainline in the 70s, it seems that it was new players post 2000 that forced change - Peco with a DCC loco and Dapol with the exquisite 14xx.

[CF MRC]

The PECO Jubilee was the real game changer for N and it got me started in 1971 (following an Arnold/PECO dock tank and Minitrix Britannia). The number of locos that could be converted from the Jubilee and other mechanisms were legendary, as witnessed by Gransmoor Castle, my old N gauge layout Gouldby for Caldecote, and then Chiltern Green. PECO then lost the plot in N by not producing the Collett 0-6-0 until decades after its initial announcement.

 

The Graham Farish basic pannier mechanism with the home made motor was a real game changer for them: their previous steam engines made a lot of noise and very little directional progress. Peter Farish was very proud of that motor, but did not realise that the rest of the world had moved on: the engineering design in these mechanisms was actually pretty poor.

 

To be precise, the Lonestar models pre-dated Sydney Pritchard's N scale.

 

I have never understood why the GC/ROD 2-8-0 has not featured in the commercial ranges: such a wide travelled type.

 

Tim (an early N gauge fossil)

Edited December 22, 2016 by CF MRC

[Titan]

Are you not looking for something to shunt these then?

 

[BernardTPM]

We've already got a discussion on ground-breaking 00 locos, how about an equivalent thread for N?

To set the ball rolling:

 

Lone Star D5000 (class 24).

 

Minitrix Warship.

 

Peco/Rivarossi Jubilee.

 

Graham Farish class 47.

 

Dapol 45XX.

 

RevolutioN Pendolino.

I would have to add the 1970 Farish 94xx Pannier to that list. Not a one-off wonder, but the beginning of what was to become the largest British N gauge range. Rarely perfect, but definitely very significant.

[CF MRC]

I agree with Bernard. The 94xx had a beautiful box. And that was the best part about it! It was my first N gauge engine and had I not also got an Arnold 0-6-0 at the same time would probably have given up on the scale there and then.

 

Tim

[PatB]

Agree on the 94xx, and its close cousin the Holden 0-6-0. Not very good in any objective sense but probably the first loco of a generation (maybe two) of N gauge modellers.

[BernardTPM]

As far as I know the very first batch of 94xx panniers had a different pattern chassis to the models that followed, but it was replaced possibly as early as the second batch. The second design was then repeated for the Holden, the Hall and WC/BB(/MN) and was an awful clip together plastic thing! Chassis of this dire design are usually seem sans coupling rods and with the two pins wound round at different positions, explaining why the rods came off in the first place! The new chassis that started with the Black 5 (1978, I think) was far better, if somewhat antiquated by the time they were finally superceded this century. Thinking about it, perhaps the introduction of that chassis design could be termed a game-changer, especially as the Graham Farish made them available as a separate item. Without that there probably wouldn't have been the D&M, GEM or Graham Hughes kit ranges.

[CF MRC]

I used to have two of those 'standard tanks' - related to the Holden for banking duties on the 1: 37 incline on my first (and only private) layout. The noise they made was indescribable when at full chat. They were replaced by a model of the Lickey Banker, converted from a Minitrix 2-10-0. We were resourceful in those days. I sold this engine and have regretted it ever since.

 

Tim

[Flying Pig]

Graham Farish class 47. This loco marked the point where Graham Farish went from a bit player to becoming the flagship British N manufacturer. In a different league to any main-line diesels before that point.

 

I believe that the Peak and 37 (as well as the 108) pre-date the 47 and both are well tooled and accurate. As I recall, the 37 was the first with a DCC-ready chassis, so strictly the game-changer.

[CF MRC]

I believe that the Peak and 37 (as well as the 108) pre-date the 47 and both are well tooled and accurate. As I recall, the 37 was the first with a DCC-ready chassis, so strictly the game-changer.

I think you are a generation out! This list is probably referring to the 47 introduced in the '80s.

 

Tim

Edited December 24, 2016 by CF MRC

[Tim H]

I think you are a generation out! This list is probabl referring to the 47 introduced in the '80s.

 

Tim

 

You are indeed correct!

[CF MRC]

This thread has spurred me to upload a couple of old transcribed cine films to You Tube made over 40 years ago!

 

 

 

N gauge has come on a long way since then.

 

Tim

[D9020 Nimbus]

I'd definitely suggest the Dapol 14xx as a game changer rather than the 45xx—it came first, it's smaller and runs better.

 

How about a more recent game changer—the first Farish loco with a coreless motor? I think that was the Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0. And the 108 DMU for its sound.

Edited February 2, 2017 by D9020 Nimbus

[daftbovine]

I own 3 of the models on the OP's list and they still run very well which must count for something. I think the Jubilee is still a very nice loco.

 

I think the Farish prototype Deltic and Dapol Terrier and Q1 are contenders too.

 

The Deltic is one of those locos I just had to have.

 

The Terrier is one I didn't think would ever get made in N and likewise the Q1.

[Vanders]

I've always felt the BachFar 08 is underappreciated. For years N put up with crude example, and we were constantly told that outside frames in N were just not going to happen...and then it happened. I've always thought the 08 finally showed that you could have just as finely detailed models in RtR N as you could in OO.

 

How about a more recent game changer—the first Farish loco with a careless motor? I think that was the Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0.

I'd definitely agree with this; once again showing that N can do just as well as OO, given some investment in technology.

[Orange Cat]

Chassis of this dire design are usually seem sans coupling rods and with the two pins wound round at different positions, explaining why the rods came off in the first place! 

 

The forked ends of the coupling rods didn't help either.

[BernardTPM]

The forked ends of the coupling rods didn't help either.

I wonder if they were there to allow the coupling rods to fly off when the gearing went wrong so that the motor didn't burn out -  a bit like a safety valve!

[Robert Shrives]

Hi to add to list how about Dapol class 22 - small but beautiful obscure  and not that long ago unlikely to  get made, factory weathered concept taken to a new level to makes it a game changer.  

[Colin]

Funny - no one has mentioned the Lima Standard 2-6-4T yet.

 

Sorry, I'll go quietly.........

[Edge]

For me, the Dapol 9Fand Q1 for me were the ones - characterful locmotives that ran as well as their 'OO' counterparts

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

Comments from someone who went into Brotish N Gauge in the early days...

 

Lone Star OOO - Class 24 and Class 22 - First British ready to run in the scale. For the time they were very good, just a shame they went trough rubber bands when worked hard or for a long period.

 

Wrenn-Lima - Class 81 - First British Overhead Electric - Great body, shame about the chassis.

 

Peco Jubilee - Just magic! Nothing compared to the Jubille in it's day - not in British outline at least!

 

Minitrix Dock Tank - First British outline small steamer - OK - I know it uses the chassis off a German loco.

 

Minitrix Warship - First 'proper N scale British diesel - same caveat as the Dock Tank (and all other Minitrix!)

 

Graham Farish - original Pannier and Holden - shame about the chassis but a good start! BernardTPM is correct - First batch of Panniers had a different chassis. Second batch of Pannier and Holden had new type chassis. This made no difference to how they ran! Split gears were as much a problem then as they are now!

 

Things went very quiet for a time in British N with hardly anything new, in locos at least.

 

Ok - so we had kits to fit various makers chassis - some better than others!

 

For me the real game changer was the Graham Farish Black 5. At last - something of a similar quality to the PECO Jubilee, but at less than half the price!

 

In the end I had 10 of them as Black 5's plus about another 30 chassis with various kit bodies on them, Patriot, Scot, rebuilt Jubilee, rebuilt Scot, rebuilt Patriot, 2-6-4 tanks, BR Standards, B1, Duchess, Corronation, Princess.

Those were the days of modelling things instead of buying them RTR!

 

For more modern N...

 

Dapol B1, Q1 The revolution in modern N gauge steam outline.

Bachmann Deltic - original

Honrby Arnold - Brighton Belle

 

So much good stuff to choose from these days!

 

For Tim - I was only thinking about Goulby for Grandthorpe the other day - I was trying to show someone how far N Gauge had progressed since those days and quoted it as on of the first layouts to break the standard barrier in N.

 

Thanks

[Jim Martin]

Hi to add to list how about Dapol class 22 - small but beautiful obscure  and not that long ago unlikely to  get made, factory weathered concept taken to a new level to makes it a game changer.

 

It's not a locomotive, but the Dapol "Silver Bullet" tanker was a colossal advance in factory-applied weathering. In terms of ambition and execution it was so far ahead of everything else on the (mass rtr) market that it wasn't even worth comparing it to any other model.

 

Jim