Hornby class 31 modifications

[wiggoforgold]

I've just brought a Hornby class 31.

Its a green "Skinhead" one with headcode discs.

 

I want to make it into a green Brush type 2 as running circa 1967.

 

As far as I can establish, the original pilot scheme Brush type 2s (D5500 -D5510) appear to have been outshopped in green, with duck egg blue body stripes and cab window surrounds. In about 1959/60 the duck egg blue stripes were changed for white. The cab window surrounds later became green, possibly when yellow panels were added? Originally the lettering had a Sans serif style of "D" as depicted on Hornby D5511.

Hornby appear to make two different early green models of pilot scheme Brush type 2's, although I can only find one on their website:

R2420 depicting D5512 in early 1960's green with white stripes and cab window surrounds.

R2420A depicting D5511 in 1959 green with duck egg blue stipes and cab window surrounds. (This is the one I got)

 

Helpfully, the box insert depicts D5511 with white stripes - not a model they actually produce.

 

The body seems pretty good to me. The only mods I would make are:

1. Remove the bottom of the train heating exhaust and substitute a grille.

2. Add windscreen washer nozzles on the nose beneath the outer cab windows.

3. Some pictures show a flat bar between the nose handrails, with a central lamp bracket.

 

I would also paint the centre of the wheels black - why did Hornby leave them unpainted?

 

Anything else before I start cutting?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

To my eyes, from the front this model lacks the essential character of the loco, because the cabside windows should be noticeably inset, thus forming a narrower upper half to the cab. Look at any picture of the class near head on and it is very obvious. I cannot see a way to rectify the Hornby body, with any chance of retaining the otherwise good appearance and superior finish; but maybe you can see a way and if so I for one will be glad to read about it.

 

My method: take one Hornby 30, toss the body, take one Airfix/GMR 30 and toss the chassis; trim around the ends of the Hornby chassis slightly to allow the Airfix body to slip on. By cutting a chamfer on the metal of the chassis and a matching taper inside the bottom edge of the body, the body just 'seats' and requires no fixings. Bingo, a body with the right character (the Airfix moulding is overall pretty good) combined with the superior running of Hornby's chassis.

[SRman]

If it is of any help, I modernised my D5512 gradually. Firstly, I painted the cab surrounds green to match the rest of the body paintwork. I renumbered it to D5513 (mainly to avoid a number clash with my earlier two-digit DCC system!) as well as adding the numbers to all of the cabsides (the Hornby model correctly represents their very early status with numbers at one end only).

 

I decided I didn't really want to repaint the stripes from eggshell blue so have tolerated the compromise involved. I next added small yellow warning panels, not forgetting to repaint some of the folded discs.

 

Finally, I added a bit of weathering, mainly to the underframe, bogies and roof areas.

 

I am happy with the result.

 

Mine also has sound installed, using the Howes Mirrlees class 30 sounds. I do have a video of it demonstrating the sounds in the DCC Sound area of the forums, showing the locomotive before I added the yellow panels, if that is of any interest.

 

EDIT: Addendum: I added the red circle coupling codes above the buffers too, to complete the trransformation.

[wiggoforgold]

Thanks for the replies chaps.

There's a really good front view in Brush Veterans archive. I'll study that and compare it with the Hornby model.

I looked at the vids of the sound fitted ones; they sound really good, just like I remember.

SRman - when you repainted the cab window surrounds were you able to remove the glazing, or did you mask it off? Did you use a propriety colour to paint the green, or did you have to mix one up to match the existing green?

[Pennine MC]

Something else you might have to consider is the engine room door. AFAIK the Hornby model in Pilot Scheme guise has a plain door - correct for the batch when built, but photos suggest that at some later point, they acquired doors with a louvred grille, as per the rest of the class

 

And possibly the biggy is make sure your chosen loco was still a class 30 rather than a 31 by 1967. The re-engining programme was well into its stride by then, although the Pilot Scheme locos were mostly the last to be dealt with, with 5500 being the very last, in 1969

[SRman]

SRman - when you repainted the cab window surrounds were you able to remove the glazing, or did you mask it off? Did you use a propriety colour to paint the green, or did you have to mix one up to match the existing green?

 

 

Sorry, nothing so clever, I'm afraid. I brush painted the window surrounds in situ, with no masking, just a great deal of care.

 

The green I used was a Humbrol Railway colour for standard locomotive green, which matched the Hornby shade precisely. I hate having to mix colours; if I can avoid it at all, I do so!

 

As Ian has said above, the pilot batch were eventually fitted with the extra grille in the engine room doors, altough all the pics I have seen from 1968 show the pilot batch as still withoput the grilles and still with Mirrlees engines - the one partial exception is D5518, with full yellow ends, headcode boxes fitted and blue star coupling codes (rebuilt after an accident but still without engine room door grille).

 

Best advice is work from photos of the one you wish to model.

[Pennine MC]

Sorry, nothing so clever, I'm afraid. I brush painted the window surrounds in situ, w - the one partial exception is D5518, with full yellow ends, headcode boxes fitted and blue star coupling codes (rebuilt after an accident but still without engine room door grille

 

Mmm, that's an interesting point of detail. 5518's rebuild is fairly well known, but I must admit hadnt even thought about the engine room doing remaining original.

[Horsetan]

I'd be inclined to resolve this first before doing any other modification!

[Pixie]

Something else you might have to consider is the engine room door. AFAIK the Hornby model in Pilot Scheme guise has a plain door - correct for the batch when built, but photos suggest that at some later point, they acquired doors with a louvred grille, as per the rest of the class

 

And possibly the biggy is make sure your chosen loco was still a class 30 rather than a 31 by 1967.

 

I'm pretty sure that the exhaust ports also changed with the re-engine-ing - A1 did do the later ones, but they're not currently shown on their website (Quite annoyingly as I need a few more!)

 

Pix

[Pennine MC]

I'm pretty sure that the exhaust ports also changed with the re-engine-ing

 

Um yes, silly me They did - that was the whole point of me saying that, although I didnt actually mention the bit that was relevant to the modelling

 

- A1 did do the later ones, but they're not currently shown on their website (Quite annoyingly as I need a few more!)

 

 

IIRC from my Airfix conversion of 199-whenever, it's more or less a case of replicating the originals but turning them through 90deg and making them a tad longer - a Plasticard fabrication would serve as well, I'd think

[Pete Piszczek]

I think you'll find an image of a plain door 30/31 with yellow warning panel as late as 67 very difficult to find, subsequently I can't recall finding one.

 

To be fair, these were scanned after your searches...

 

D5509_Stratford_November_67_Slide_208.jpg

 

D5513_West_Hampstead_August_67_Slide_174.jpg

 

D5507_Stratford_August_68_Slide_240.jpg

[Pixie]

On a side note, does anyone know if the combination of 'grilled' side doors and original class 30 style exhaust ports, as carried by Hornby's D5640 is correct?

 

Without getting all wish listy I'd love Hornby to do an early 31 with grills in the side doors and the correct exahust ports. The best basis (the aforementioned D5640) is an absolute swine to get hold of these days and I'd of thought that it'd be a popular choice with modellers, rather than the green 30's and later blue 31's that seem to be piled high in the shops. I've asked Mr Kohler before for these, or even just a re-run of D5640, but nothing seems to have come to fruition. C'est la vie I guess.

 

Pix

 

 

[SRman]

 I checked through a couple of books and I now have a dated picture of D5518 in green with full yellow ends, blue star multi-working code, and no engine room door grille, spruced up for Royal train duties at Tattenham Corner on June 4th, 1969. That pic was in Diesels on the Southern.

 

 

 

As to the exhaust ports differeing, that was something Lima got right with various issues. I have a Lima 31 004 in blue with the Mirrlees arrangement and 31 327 in Railfreight grey with the EE Co arrangement.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Adding to that and correcting very slightly: there is no "D" prefix so it is just 5518. It has BR the "arrow of indecision" on its green livery and the numerals are also of the blue style, not the "correct" condensed style for green livery.

 

 

 

[Pennine MC]

On a side note, does anyone know if the combination of 'grilled' side doors and original class 30 style exhaust ports, as carried by Hornby's D5640 is correct?

 

No reason why it shouldnt be Pix - AFAIK the production batches all had the grille, and re-engining didnt start until 1964 (and then only proceeded slowly), so that leaves a fair sized window during which Mirrlees-engined locos would have carried GSY livery

 

...the aforementioned D5640) is an absolute swine to get hold of these days and I'd of thought that it'd be a popular choice with modellers, ...

 

You'd think, wouldnt you

[wiggoforgold]

Thanks again for all the replies. Like any large, longlived class, there are lots of changes and the thing for a model must be to work from a photograph of the chosen loco in the chosen period. I want to do a pilot scheme loco, circa 1966, GSYP with plain engine room doors.

Away from my original question, I am also thinking about doing D5579 in golden ochre livery c 1965 with a small yellow panel (ie just before she was repainted green). I was thinking of getting a Hornby 31 on Ebay as the basis of this, but the worry is, would this pose a risk of getting one with chassis problems?

[Michael Delamar]

Im just bumping this thread to ask a few questions rather than start a whole new thread.

 

Im looking at aquiring either Hornby's original release of a green headcode box version with small yellow panel or the new one which is due out soon.

 

I realise the Hornby body is wrong in some areas but I think Ive heard people say that in green its not as obvious. and I dont fancy repainting an airfix or Lima body with white stripes and small panel.

 

Id like to renumber it to a Sheffield Darnall one in early 1960s. condition, I have a selection to choose from..

 

D5680-8/90-2. D5810/15/24/6/30/2/6/41/3-5/47-52/56-61

 

my questions are..

 

which locos can I model with just a simple renumbering of the Hornby model?

 

is the roof correct for the class 30?

 

when did class 30/31s first get a yellow warning panel, as I have a shot of an unknown loco dated 1961 which I thought was early.

 

id also like to see any shots of other peoples models of the headcode small yellow panel that they have weathered or improved on please

 

Mike

[BrushVeteran]

Im just bumping this thread to ask a few questions rather than start a whole new thread.

 

Im looking at aquiring either Hornby's original release of a green headcode box version with small yellow panel or the new one which is due out soon.

 

I realise the Hornby body is wrong in some areas but I think Ive heard people say that in green its not as obvious. and I dont fancy repainting an airfix or Lima body with white stripes and small panel.

 

Id like to renumber it to a Sheffield Darnall one in early 1960s. condition, I have a selection to choose from..

 

D5680-8/90-2. D5810/15/24/6/30/2/6/41/3-5/47-52/56-61

 

my questions are..

 

which locos can I model with just a simple renumbering of the Hornby model?

 

is the roof correct for the class 30?

 

when did class 30/31s first get a yellow warning panel, as I have a shot of an unknown loco dated 1961 which I thought was early.

 

id also like to see any shots of other peoples models of the headcode small yellow panel that they have weathered or improved on please

 

Mike

Mike

 

Hornby's model of D5640 (R2572) was quite an accurate representation of the prototype, apart from lacking the LT trip cock valve handle and aperture which was fitted in the secondman's side bufferbeam valance. This was only fitted to the original Finsbury Park allocated examples D5586-5615, D5622-7, D5639-D5654 and D5671-9.  The model represents a Brush Type 2 Class 30 as originally built with Mirrlees power unit but with the addition of small yellow warning panels which were retrospectively applied to D5500-5699, D5800-24 from mid 1961 to early 1963. D5825-41/43-62 were outshopped from Brush with the yellow panels.

 

I do have a weathered version which I will photograph and submit over the next couple of days.

 

Hornby's forthcoming reintroduced version of this appeared in last years catalogue as D5657 which unfortunately was one of the uprated 1600hp variants (D5545, D5655-70) and would of lacked the extra access panel for the additional radiator header tank adjacent to the main radiator fan and access panel. I have to thank Simon Kohler here for taking the necessary steps to put this right and it will now be D5809 (I think) in the current catalogue. Of course Hornby's models of 31233 are technically wrong in this area as the original D5661 was one of the 1600hp batch, still these are easier to add than to remove!  I would add that I have quite a large fleet of these and they run superbly. It would be nice to see Hornby add some additional livery variants in next years agenda.........D5578 electric blue...........D5579 golden ochre........green without yellow panels.......green  full yellow ends.....are you listening Simon!!!!!!!

[Michael Delamar]

Grahame that is brilliant, thank you.

 

Im going to try and wittle down the list of the ones I have to find one to model. I will ask the person who provided me with his spotting notes if he has notes of which one he saw the most.

 

I didnt realise these had small yellow panels in 61.

[BrushVeteran]

Grahame that is brilliant, thank you.

 

Im going to try and wittle down the list of the ones I have to find one to model. I will ask the person who provided me with his spotting notes if he has notes of which one he saw the most.

 

I didnt realise these had small yellow panels in 61.

Mike

 

Yes time flies, D5825 was outshopped from Brush in 11/61 with small yellow panels (although D5842 entered traffic initially without them) but I'm led to believe that some of the first panels were applied by Stratford depot in or around May 1961 following on from the experiments with D5578 & D5579. I think D5501 was an early recipient of these as it also retained its white/grey window surrounds together with D5515. I will try and find out which of the headcode fitted locos received its panels first as someone is bound to know. As I had relatives in London during the time these great locomotives were being introduced I'm afraid that they were all part of the scene and I have fond memories of them.

 

 The Heljan O gauge version is really nice and looks the part......................especially in green!  

 

Must go and dust off the layout and find this loco for you!

[Michael Delamar]

brilliant again Grahame, ive been putting some details down as to why I am interested about these in this thread about the CLC through Stockport from post 179 onwards..

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56808-the-clc-through-stockport/page-8

 

they reached Liverpool from Sheffield. return headcode was 6E16 and I will be looking to model one of the locos that was a regular visitor with that headcode.

period 61-64ish. its a nice excuse to have one for my modelling area of Liverpool around that period.

[BrushVeteran]

Mike

 

Yes time flies, D5825 was outshopped from Brush in 11/61 with small yellow panels but I'm led to believe that some of the first panels were applied by Stratford depot in or around May 1961 following on from the experiments with D5578 & D5579. I think D5501 was an early recipient of these as it also retained its white/grey window surrounds together with D5515. I will try and find out which of the headcode fitted locos received its panels first as someone is bound to know. As I had relatives in London during the time these great locomotives were being introduced I'm afraid that they were all part of the scene and I have fond memories of them.

 

 The Heljan O gauge version is really nice and looks the part......................especially in green!  

 

Must go and dust off the layout and find this loco for you!

Well I found it for you, the dust and cobwebs add to the weathering, I've included a shot of D5640 untouched so you can compare. My photos aren't the best but it gives you an idea.

D5599 as weathered (not by me I hasten to add), but not a bad job. I can't bring myself to spoil a decent livery!

Another shot of D5599 showing a bit of clean paintwork here and there. I think it looks quite effective.

D5640 on shed nice and clean as they always should be!!!

[Michael Delamar]

thank you Grahame

 

it really brings it to life, ive only ever seen the standard model shop style shot of them in that variation.

 

looking forward to bagging one of them

 

cheers

 

Mike

[stewartingram]

Should it have the Blue Star coupling codes added? Lovely model.

 

Stewart

[Michael Delamar]

just had another person share spotting details of class 31's in the 60s on the clc heading for Walton Liverpool.

 

04/07/1962 D5812
11/07/1962 D5843
26/07/1962 D5838
09/03/1963 D5836
30/03/1963 D5822
14/05/1964 D5861

believe the shot of the unidentifed one at Walton, may have been taken on grand national day 30/3/1963, not 1961, and if so it would make it D5822.

[Michael Delamar]

Ive finally got  one, D5657 but will be renumbered as one of those that visited Walton on the hill.