RMweb Gold young37215 Posted July 23, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2021 Hi Ian I was vaguely aware of Revolutions new range but due to my limited knowledge of historic engineering of the WHL I had not given them too much thought or consideration for WHL4. Engineering wagons on the WHL is an interesting but little covered subject and other than those of ballast carrying wagons I have seen very few pictures of engineering vehicles that might have been used for carrying rail. Upstream on this thread there is a picture of an OBA in use for carrying rail, beyond this I have only seen a couple of pictures of Salmon wagons in sidings. A quick search of Flickr returned the picture below, I am not sure what the wagon is? The wider subject of track and track replacement on the WHL is equally unknown to me and an area I would like to develop more knowledge of. I think that the WHL was mostly jointed flat bottom rail on wooden sleepers during my 1980 -85 time window. It appears that concrete sleepers began to appear in the 1980's but I have no idea when CWR started to appear.The June 1983 picture below clearly shows jointed rail on wooden sleepers at Crianlarich. A few concrete sleepers started to appear in the mid 1980's presumably as a result of replacement of life expired wooden ones. Bridge of Orchy 1985 for example Ardlui 1985 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted July 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) Thanks Rob, the wagon behind 37 410 is a PFA /KFA wagon, this one being used to carry the reels of paper from Corpach, hence the wedges on the flat surface. KFAs were also used for Aluminium slab traffic in the 90s. As regards track I know that you can hear the regular 'clickerty-clack' of trains travelling over rail joints on most of the Driver's Eye type DVDs and that concrete sleepers were in use on the Killin branch before it closed in the mid 60s. The fact that most of the pictures of the Salmon wagons seem to show them being fitted with the 2 small rail lifting cranes makes me think that 'most' replacement trackwork was built in situ from components which would make for an interesting train, rail on one wagon, sleepers maybe in an OBA type open and chairs in another type of open wagon (maybe one of the Seal wagons mentioned in the new Eng Wagons bookazine.) I have a nagging feeling that I've seen some photos of prefabricated track on wagons somewhere (possibly Irishswissernies site which I'll have to check ....again ) but I may be getting confused with photos of track lifting on the Callandar & Oban line when part of it was closed. I'll report back if I find anything of interest. Hope all is well on WHL v.4 ....and those little, wee, nasty, horrible biting things are not running rampant during your July and August running sessions ! I'm starting to itch just at their mentioning !! Regards, Ian. Edited July 24, 2021 by 03060 Correction to wagon ID Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted July 26, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 26, 2021 Having looked through 5 of Ernie's fabulous albums on Flikr I haven't come across any photos of Mullets or Parr wagons or any signs of pre-fabricated track being sent up the line, in fact any signs of track renewal seems to be by component construction which is seen either in or next to wagons at Ardlui, Oban, Crianlarich Upper, Tom-na-faire. The link below is probably the best ....and topically at Ardlui. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/45397608715/in/album-72157685023339563/ In order, looking towards the buffers I think we have a Plaice, two Pikes (exSPA), a wooden Bass (exOBA) and a Sealion ballast hopper and lots of diiferent components such as rails, sleepers (wooden and concrete) and ballast in evidence. Other engineering wagons that turn up in Ernie's photos inside Rob's WHL v.4 period include : Mermaid, Dogfish, Mackerel and Turbots with ballast and Winkle (22t plate), Haddock, a Flatrol, Bass (exOCA), Medfit, Sturgeon and Turbots again with other things. Then there is Queen Mary brake van at Crianlarich and an ex.SECR Brake / Road van at Tom-na-faire. Just outside WHL v.4s period there is a Hake and a Rudd. One photo taken at Crianlarich Upper shows x4 Medfits, a 12t Crane, x2 Medfits, a Sealion and a Dogfish in one of the goods sidings which may be of use to you Rob. Regards, Ian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted August 30, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2021 (edited) Compared to some WHL modellers (you know who you are!) I am doing very little at present. We did have a day of running trains last week which reinforced an operational concern that has been occupying my thoughts for some time with Mallaig Junction Yard fiddle yard not working as it needs to when running to timetable. The problem is that the run round loops are not long enough to hold typical length freight trains of 8 or so wagons resulting in trains fouling points and blocking off access to other loops. The 5 road fiddle yard needs changing to function more effectively; the before and after plan below shows visually what I intend doing. 3 shortish sidings will be removed and replaced by extending the existing run round loops. The net effect should be a 100% increase in the length of the 3 extended loops creating greater flexibility and comfortably allowing 10 wagon trains plus loco into each loop. A further bonus will be the removal of 2 sets of points and less shunting both of which should reduce derailment potential. A 3 way point has been purchased and will be installed over the next few days. Sidings lifted and revised track placed in position prior to cutting it to fit and wiring up Edited May 7, 2022 by young37215 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted August 31, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) Revised track layout completed and full length freight trains now fit comfortably in all 3 extended loops. On paper this should make running the WTT easier but I need to try it in practice before I can be sure. Once I am comfortable this works I will connect the new track to the BUS and motorise the points but for now I rely on the fishplates to deliver power. Edited May 7, 2022 by young37215 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISW Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 30/08/2021 at 19:51, young37215 said: Compared to some WHL modellers (you know who you are!) I am doing very little at present. We did have a day of running trains last week which reinforced an operational concern that has been occupying my thoughts for some time with Mallaig Junction Yard fiddle yard not working as it needs to when running to timetable. The problem is that the run round loops are not long enough to hold typical length freight trains of 8 or so wagons resulting in trains fouling points and blocking off access to other loops. Rob, Compared with myself you are doing much more modelling. I still have to 'master' the art of airbrushing before I can move on with anything on the layout. Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted September 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 2, 2021 On 31/08/2021 at 19:29, young37215 said: Revised track layout completed and full length freight trains now fit comfortably in all 3 extended loops. On paper this should make running the WTT easier but I need to try it in practice before I can be sure. Once I am comfortable this works I will connect the new track to the BUS and motorise the points but for now I rely on the fishplates to deliver power. Morning Rob, Nice to see pictures of WHL v.4 again. I'm quite interested in how you find this fiddle yard modìfication as hopefully I may be starting to lay my own this month but as it will likely have scenery and possibly other trackwork over it it won't be quite as accessible as yours once the next stage starts ...so I want to get it right first time if possible. I need to think about whether I need to be able to run around from all sidings or whether I just need this facility on the Mallaig traffic sidings and not particularly on the Glasgow QS sidings where stock may be changed anyway. Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted September 3, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 3, 2021 21 hours ago, 03060 said: I need to think about whether I need to be able to run around from all sidings Hi Ian I decided a long time ago that fiddle yards work most effectively where there are run round loops so that shunting is kept to a minimum. The loops at Mallaig Junction Yard had already proved they deliver what I need to run a timetable, the increase in their length is purely about capacity. If what you plan doing is more like Fort William or Glasgow Queen Street stations where a different loco can simply drop on the back of rolling stock then the requirement for a loop is much reduced. On WHL 3 the main fiddle yard was underneath a scenic section. I had no major problems with this arrangement but much prefer my current set up where the fiddle yards are open and easily accessible even though this has meant I have lost space that could have scenic stuff on it. If you have a hidden fiddle yard then I recommend you install lighting; I did and it made life a lot easier. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted September 9, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) An unexpected running day spent trialling the 1983 WTT and revised Mallaig Junction fiddle Yard arrangements all worked well. So far the revised Mallaig Junction Yard loops are delivering what I had hoped for. We only managed about 25% of the days operations but everything worked as planned; fingers crossed that this continues. 37022 heads 8D10 at Crianlarich where is passes northbound 37026 on 1B10 Mallaig Junction Yard seen with various trains passing through. Edited May 19, 2022 by young37215 11 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2021 On 12/05/2017 at 17:52, young37215 said: I spend less time modelling during the spring and summer hence the lack of recent updates. However I cannot resist showing off my new WHL station building which arrived earlier today. It has been laser printed in card and built by Dawson Hall. I am delighted at what they have produced which is so much better than anything I could have scratch built and really captures the essence of the distinctive WHL Swiss chalet style buildings. This building will be used for Garelochead which is my next station project. Pictures show the building on an old platform used for design purposes and which is not flat hence the gaps under the building. Nevertheless it still looks brilliant. I love the look of the station building and looked up Dawson Hall but can’t find any reference online. Have they ceased trading? Apologies if this has been covered later, I’ve just started wading through the thread from the beginning having dipped in before. Regards Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted September 11, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 11, 2021 19 hours ago, thegreenhowards said: I love the look of the station building and looked up Dawson Hall but can’t find any reference online. Have they ceased trading? Apologies if this has been covered later, I’ve just started wading through the thread from the beginning having dipped in before. Regards Andy The Dawson Hall partnership is history. Ed Hall is one half of the former partnership and was still doing commission work when I last spoke to him in early 2021. Ed is a great character but a little bit old fashioned with little on line presence; I'll send you his phone number if you want to contact him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted September 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 11, 2021 1 hour ago, young37215 said: The Dawson Hall partnership is history. Ed Hall is one half of the former partnership and was still doing commission work when I last spoke to him in early 2021. Ed is a great character but a little bit old fashioned with little on line presence; I'll send you his phone number if you want to contact him. Yes please. I’m hoping to build a model of Glenfinnan station and viaduct in O gauge in my garden. I know Dawson Hill did some o gauge stuff so I’m pleased to hear that at least part of the partnership might still be operational. I’ll PM you. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted September 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2021 On 06/04/2020 at 19:54, young37215 said: 37051 was a long termer on the WHL arriving in March 1981 on transfer from March. There is a great picture of her at Fort William in Nick Meskell's Scottish Class 37 Volume 1, page 38. She was one of the last WHL locos to lose the buffer skirts, round buffers and glass headcode which were removed in late 1984. I have renumbered what was originally 37034 to 37051 in the largely as built condition. A little more work is required to hide the renumbering and where nameplates were previously located, I hope to get close to the picture below. I’m slowly working my way through this fantastic thread and I’ve got to the pictures above of my favourite 37, 37051. I’m surprised by your assertion that she stayed with black dominos and buffer skirts until late 1984 as I have the picture below taken on my first trip to Mallaig on 8/8/83 which I’m 99% sure is 37051. I know that 37051 hauled me from Glasgow (with assistance from 20045 to Tulloch) and this is the return working although we caught the ferry to Kyle so I didn’t travel back with her. I'm converting my Heljan class 37 to 37051 and I’d like an excuse to leave her with skirts, so I’d be grateful if you could point me in the right direction for any evidence to support the late 1984 date as I’d love to be proved wrong! Ps. I have more photos from that trip if you’re interested. Andy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted September 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2021 52 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said: I’m slowly working my way through this fantastic thread and I’ve got to the pictures above of my favourite 37, 37051. I’m surprised by your assertion that she stayed with black dominos and buffer skirts until late 1984 as I have the picture below taken on my first trip to Mallaig on 8/8/83 which I’m 99% sure is 37051. I know that 37051 hauled me from Glasgow (with assistance from 20045 to Tulloch) and this is the return working although we caught the ferry to Kyle so I didn’t travel back with her. I'm converting my Heljan class 37 to 37051 and I’d like an excuse to leave her with skirts, so I’d be grateful if you could point me in the right direction for any evidence to support the late 1984 date as I’d love to be proved wrong! Ps. I have more photos from that trip if you’re interested. Andy I'm afraid that I've also found a September 1983 photo showing a skirtless 37 051 at Mallaig in Tom Noble's WH Mallaig Extension book (p.60.) If you don't want to hack your model, Andy, can I suggest 37 039 which still had it's skirts on in May 1985 with black headcode boxes (p.28 of the same book) although these were yellow in 1984. I would love to see more of your photos, please, Andy, but with all due respect to Rob it's not my thread. Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) March 1983 skirtless (Dave Jolly) https://www.flickr.com/photos/hoover29/8757980063/in/photolist-ekUWmg-pFEaDV-2mkgcFR-2m7PTna-2hojMKL-eWdMV5-tHbLso-2igm1cQ-2ioeQag-r46QcD-2jboJz5-LtB51x-KDuMFm-787Jav-DpTdTf-LqZeXm-KDuM2q-dLk6iW-La5TGo-24NC5XJ-f4KDRP-k8R42J-bo5ibd-b8f1TZ-eeYGn5-2kAHjeA-2ahgYyK-2kAfFwj-CuNEhB-dnvMFU-f4KDSt-CN8tTa-de9gQC-LtB4gB-YyomCH-LtB3gv-2kqTkFx-LqZcFC-o9ZJuq-GRV3Nw-eee636-wp8QNn-LtB4NZ-nvZgjV-dQoT44-fyqaFT-Ywmie5-pe6YBa-J8Pnbf-2iLmYYS By December 1984 it had at least had its headcode boxes painted black. https://www.flickr.com/photos/52409131@N05/8682305829/in/photolist-eee636-wp8QNn-LtB4NZ-nvZgjV-dQoT44-fyqaFT-Ywmie5-pe6YBa-J8Pnbf-2iLmYYS-2kVcFcf-KchdzZ-LtB3Yx-2iJYHwj-dtEvBQ-fqVxY2-4kscro-b8Bqhv-de9gNE-b8BrZ8-dTtzjD-2emtPGf-fh9vT5-2m9oXQR-rskFv8-dNvWzH-aMaUXr-GT4Sfb-wBe32a-zkP3WY-MKtK67-9RwSs5-diNxBK-hXCbzH-5W3AQ8-MCnNnz-bPju76-n2g92F-dA4vFj-9HTP7j-ek8FZh-cADTj1-boo7R9-bCEQQY-zwiVoV-2bkTdSA-bEcSwY-2fWxiSc-HYRh1s-dKQpBK HTH Scott Edited September 16, 2021 by Scott B 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallaig1983 Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 23 minutes ago, 03060 said: I'm afraid that I've also found a September 1983 photo showing a skirtless 37 051 at Mallaig in Tom Noble's WH Mallaig Extension book (p.60.) If you don't want to hack your model, Andy, can I suggest 37 039 which still had it's skirts on in May 1985 with black headcode boxes (p.28 of the same book) although these were yellow in 1984. I would love to see more of your photos, please, Andy, but with all due respect to Rob it's not my thread. Regards, Ian. Can I second Ian’s post above if I may? I’m sure 051 went through the skirt removal/box plating at some point in 83 too. Also 039 did indeed retain her skirts but the boxes were plated. The black in 85 was paint rather than the glass domino though. I too would love to see more photos of your trip. Really appreciating this one for now though. Sorry to trample on your thread Rob. Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
csvt2004 Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 Hi, I have this in my collection, taken 09/05/83. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted September 16, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) On 16/09/2021 at 08:42, thegreenhowards said: I’m slowly working my way through this fantastic thread and I’ve got to the pictures above of my favourite 37, 37051. I’m surprised by your assertion that she stayed with black dominos and buffer skirts until late 1984 as I have the picture below taken on my first trip to Mallaig on 8/8/83 which I’m 99% sure is 37051. I know that 37051 hauled me from Glasgow (with assistance from 20045 to Tulloch) and this is the return working although we caught the ferry to Kyle so I didn’t travel back with her. I'm converting my Heljan class 37 to 37051 and I’d like an excuse to leave her with skirts, so I’d be grateful if you could point me in the right direction for any evidence to support the late 1984 date as I’d love to be proved wrong! Ps. I have more photos from that trip if you’re interested. Andy Hi Andy Clearly I was wrong, it is pretty evident that 051 lost her skirts and glass domino headcode earlier than 1984. I suspect that my comment reflected the Class 37 Loco Group page for 051 where there is a picture ostensibly dated April 1984 showing her in original condition. Typically I use Flickr and the Class 37 Loco Group records for reference but Flickr shows 051 with plated headcode from as early as Spring 1982. Interestingly a picture on the Class 37 website dated May 1982 shows 051 with plated headcode, a freshly painted front, worn bodyside paint and bufferbeam skirts indicating to me that the headcode change had been done on the cheap somewhere, presumably Eastfield. By October 1982 Flickr shows that the skirts had gone. If you have more pictures of your WHL trip I am sure that we would love to see them, whether you post them seperately or on this thread is down to you. Limited operations on WHL4 at present, a few hours of running earlier today had 37085 with the lunchtime Oban to Glasgow service pictured arriving at Crianlarich. Edited May 19, 2022 by young37215 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted September 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2021 Hi Rob and others, Thanks for the confirmation. I may just have to go earlier for my 37051, but it would be nice to put a Scottie dog on, so I may choose a different example. Heljan don’t seem to have done a skirtless split box yet and while I readily hack 4mm locos around, I’m more reluctant when they cost £500+! I don’t have my own WHL or photo thread, so I’ll dribble a few out on here if that’s OK. They all have to be scanned in from prints so it will take a few days. Regards Andy 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted September 18, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2021 On 05/10/2020 at 21:03, 37Oban said: I try to go back when I can with my daughter, but, even though there are more trains per day now than there were in the 80's Sprinters just don't cut it for me! In my time there I had one memorable trip that wasn't cl37 hauled. On 25th September 1985 the 37 due to take the 13.00 Oban - Glasgow QS failed (i think it was a fuel problem) so another loco was commandered and the only one available was 27001, which had arrived earlier on a freight. It was too good a chance to miss so I bought a ticket to Crianlarich. We had six on and left almost a minute and a half down and made heavy weather of the climbe to Glen Cruiten summit. Eventually we arrived at Crianlarich 14 and half minutes down on schedule! When we left Oban it was overcast but this turned to light rain by Crianlarich. The guard told me that if it rained when we left Oban he would have had to walk in front of the loco spreading sand on the rails to give it any chance of making any progress! If that had failed they would have had to return to the station to detach three coaches! He missed the 27's but they were life expired when 37's replaced them and as far as he was concerned it should have happened sooner. Roja I’m continuing my tour through this thread and came to the exchange on class 27s on the WHL. My first and only experience of them was later in the week on that same trip in 1983 and it gives me an excuse to show another of my pictures if that trip! We stayed in Oban on the night of 12/8 arriving with 37081, so we were surprised to come out the following morning to be greeted with this sight on the 0740 to Glasgow. I seem to remember being a little disappointed at the time as I was (and still am) mainly an EE fan, but I enjoyed the run and I’m really pleased to have experienced it now. 27051 will be the 27 on my layout when Heljan release it. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallaig1983 Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 4 hours ago, thegreenhowards said: I’m continuing my tour through this thread and came to the exchange on class 27s on the WHL. My first and only experience of them was later in the week on that same trip in 1983 and it gives me an excuse to show another of my pictures if that trip! We stayed in Oban on the night of 12/8 arriving with 37081, so we were surprised to come out the following morning to be greeted with this sight on the 0740 to Glasgow. I seem to remember being a little disappointed at the time as I was (and still am) mainly an EE fan, but I enjoyed the run and I’m really pleased to have experienced it now. 27051 will be the 27 on my layout when Heljan release it. seems you struck lucky that day. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted September 21, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 21, 2021 On 18/09/2021 at 09:26, thegreenhowards said: I’m continuing my tour through this thread and came to the exchange on class 27s on the WHL. My first and only experience of them was later in the week on that same trip in 1983 and it gives me an excuse to show another of my pictures if that trip! We stayed in Oban on the night of 12/8 arriving with 37081, so we were surprised to come out the following morning to be greeted with this sight on the 0740 to Glasgow. I seem to remember being a little disappointed at the time as I was (and still am) mainly an EE fan, but I enjoyed the run and I’m really pleased to have experienced it now. 27051 will be the 27 on my layout when Heljan release it. You have one up on me as 27051, formerly 27107 was one of 2 ex 27/1 push pull locos I didn’t manage to have for haulage. I recently bought a Flangeway Salmon wagon. I decided that I would go for the incorrect short version on the basis that I was not certain of how the longer length would perform on 3rd radius curves. I paid the full rrp which includes Flangeway sending me the revised body once available so I can make a choice at a later date. I now need to create and paint some rail panels to create a load for the Salmon. 27105 is seen with a short engineers train heading south on the approach to Crianlarich. 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6990WitherslackHall Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 The layout is looking brilliant. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted September 29, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 29, 2021 Hi Rob, I’ve just finished wading my way through the 46 pages of your thread. It’s wonderful stuff and your layout is truly inspiring. It’s more like one of the American system layouts than anything usually seen in this country. Congratulations! I have built up a few questions which I largely resisted asking as I went through in case they had already been asked, so I will fire away now if that’s OK. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted September 29, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 29, 2021 First question is about DCC sound for your 37s. You described the speaker and sound file arrangements for your 20s in some detail but not for the 37s….unless I missed it. it would be helpful to know whose sound projects you use in your 37s. A lot of people seem to like the legomanbiffo projects which I’m tempted by but I’m normally a Zimo user so, other things being equal, I’d rather stick with a Zimo supplier. Speaker wise, you seem to rate the EM2 which I could easily fit in in O gauge - could probably manage an EM3. Any others you particularly rate? Regards Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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