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West Highland Line V4


young37215
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39 minutes ago, young37215 said:

 Several years ago ModelRail did an article on WHL ballast to coincide with the ModelRail Scotland. Try as I might, I cannot find the copy of the magazine which I am fairly sure included reference to a quarry where the pink/brown ballast came from. I shall keep looking for this in my pile of old magazines.


 

 

Rob,

 

A quick search on the web reveals that the issue you are looking for is no 166 from March 2012.

Cheers

David

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22 hours ago, 03060 said:

PS- I've just googled 'Paul Bartlett Crianlarich' in images and it came back with another 1977 photo but of a Salmon with cranes fitted which may also be of interest to you.

 

It is of interest, I have wanted to add one of the Flangeway Salmon's to the WHL4 fleet for a while and whilst in was fairly inevitable that Salmon's had been up the WHL, this provides hard evidence and the cranes are an added bonus. 

 

Key's latest bookazine arrived yesterday. I have not had much of a read as yet but it looks very good. I am particularly interested in the section on Cranes and Relayers which has some stuff about Cowans Sheldon cranes which are the only ones I have seen on the WHL. Although the era covered is at the end of my 1980-85 window it looks like another excellent piece of reference material. I will have a more extensive read of the whole bookazine over the next few days.

 

22 hours ago, David Bell said:

the issue you are looking for is no 166 from March 2012

 

I managed to find my copy although the article on ballast is silent on where the pink/brown comes from. I have in my mind that this was contained in an article somewhere but I cannot recall where or when this was. I have a large container filled with WHL articles covering many years, this looks like an opportunity to review some of these in the hope that I can find the ballast origins information.

 

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Posted (edited)

Cloburn Quarry in Lanark was mentioned earlier in the thread as a source of the red ballast which is why I thought the 'Return to B.R. Sidings Irvine' was particularly relevant.

 

The Salmon wagon with the cranes also creeps into one or two other photos on p.1 of the Crianlarich thread on here, taken by @arbealach in the mid 70's, just amazed that I'd not noticed it before.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited by 03060
Correction to photo source.
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Posted (edited)

The larger Bachmann couplings arrived for the alumina wagons but did’nt resolve the buffer lock problem. The non pivoting couplings continue to cause the buffers to lock when transitioning into curves causing derailments. Whilst chaging couplings I discovered that one of the wagons already had the couplings end lugs cut off; the previous owner appears to have encountered similar problems to me. Under trial with the pivoting coupling wagon as the middle of a 3 wagon consist, all 3 wagons passed through the curves without derailing. I repeated the test on several occasions and am satisfied that this scenario works. I need to create a consist where every 2nd wagon has the couplings lugs removed which means removing the lugs from 3 more wagons: not ideal but if it works then so be it. At least I can use the original factory fitted, weathered couplings.
 

Larger Bachmann couplings compared against the factory fitted ones

3EFB3D8D-B70B-4166-9D56-31997182531D.jpeg.eaade3207d872b9c3bfb1e294d1ed9b8.jpeg


Buffers still lock even on large radius curves and with larger couplings fitted

D22DFC7E-F321-4FFA-9C90-42FEDC844BD3.jpeg.7210abeb93a7e03d2455d8f6ac79cb51.jpeg

A831B7E2-D589-42DD-BBD5-C164A780EDA7.jpeg.8fe645e26d1bec7e5dd33fa78de56141.jpeg

Edited by young37215
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought buffer locking was when the head of one buffer jammed behind the head of the one one on the adjacent vehicle when being propelled through reverse curves?  This doesn't look like buffer locking, especially as the vehicles are being pulled around the curve, rather it looks as if the buffer bodies and shanks are too long.  Easily rectified by either a) commit surgery and shorten the buffers, or, b) replace with shorter, or even sprung, buffers.

 

Roja

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5 hours ago, young37215 said:

Larger Bachmann couplings compared against the factory fitted ones

3EFB3D8D-B70B-4166-9D56-31997182531D.jpeg.eaade3207d872b9c3bfb1e294d1ed9b8.jpeg


Buffers still lock even on large radius curves and with larger couplings fitted

D22DFC7E-F321-4FFA-9C90-42FEDC844BD3.jpeg.7210abeb93a7e03d2455d8f6ac79cb51.jpeg

A831B7E2-D589-42DD-BBD5-C164A780EDA7.jpeg.8fe645e26d1bec7e5dd33fa78de56141.jpeg

Rob,

 

If you took a hot soldering iron to the curved bit of the coupling it should be possible to 'stretch' it a bit, such that the wagons are just a tad further apart when coupled, enough to prevent the buffers contacting in your curves.

 

Ian

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22 hours ago, young37215 said:

The larger Bachmann couplings arrived for the alumina wagons but did’nt resolve the buffer lock problem. The non pivoting couplings continue to cause the buffers to lock when transitioning into curves causing derailments. Whilst chaging couplings I discovered that one of the wagons already had the couplings end lugs cut off; the previous owner appears to have encountered similar problems to me. Under trial with the pivoting coupling wagon as the middle of a 3 wagon consist, all 3 wagons passed through the curves without derailing. I repeated the test on several occasions and am satisfied that this scenario works. I need to create a consist where every 2nd wagon has the couplings lugs removed which means removing the lugs from 3 more wagons: not ideal but if it works then so be it. At least I can use the original factory fitted, weathered couplings.
 

Larger Bachmann couplings compared against the factory fitted ones

3EFB3D8D-B70B-4166-9D56-31997182531D.jpeg.eaade3207d872b9c3bfb1e294d1ed9b8.jpeg


Buffers still lock even on large radius curves and with larger couplings fitted

D22DFC7E-F321-4FFA-9C90-42FEDC844BD3.jpeg.7210abeb93a7e03d2455d8f6ac79cb51.jpeg

A831B7E2-D589-42DD-BBD5-C164A780EDA7.jpeg.8fe645e26d1bec7e5dd33fa78de56141.jpeg

A couple of other options, there are 2 lengths of the fixed couplings as per photo below, yours/Bachmann look like the shorter one. As per above the coupling looks too short so pushing the wagons apart. I presume you can order them, I happened to find it looking for something else.


0D63CFFA-7E4C-400C-A5FE-51A3D8E149C4.jpeg.2e9249ff3d77c53392cf384cf4f84b53.jpeg

 

the other option, after posting some of the links earlier in the week to the eBay seller, I ordered some of the slot in NEMs that arrived yesterday - mattymay05 is the seller. Photo below with an NEM tension lock which if anything pushes the coupling out too far but will certainly go round corners.

 

D123633D-9231-45F5-BE79-91289A1C2057.jpeg.ec8015ff377474946780ce49ec882e69.jpeg

 

AD2FEBE7-57BF-4D7A-9BC5-7628BAC5E3E9.jpeg.fce6ec4728642a3a1897f228fabdf5e7.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

Having removed the lugs from 3 more grain wagons, a 7 wagon consist comprised respectively of 1 'out of the box' wagon then 1 with lugs removed ran successfully ran for 20 minutes around the lower loop without problems. The lower loop includes the reverse curve at Crianlarich indicating that my derailment issue has been resolved. The route of the problem appears to have been a combination of the non pivoting couplings and the lightweight model (Bachmann's grain wagon weighs 57g compared with a 90g VDA or the 77g Lima grain wagon) which meant that the radius of reverse 3rd radius curves could not be traversed without the couplings either lifting the wagon off of the track or locking as described by 37Oban above. The larger Bachmann couplings did not make any difference because the tension lock hook remains in a fixed position despite having a larger area in which it could move.  

 

My thanks to those who have suggested potential solutions, had one of the grain wagons not previously had its lugs removed I would have not been quite so keen to start hacking at the lugs. As it was I had a 'test' wagon which showed that removing the lugs was one effective way to solve the problem. I know the Bachmann grain wagon is an old design but its failings are disappointing for something with a £35 rrp and when most modern wagons have NEM couplings attached to bogies which pivot. I have bought a couple of 'ready to run' models of late (Heljan's ETHEL, Bachmann's grain wagon) that were not 'ready to run'. An indication that manufacturers have taken their eye off of the ball perhaps? 

 

Consist pictured at the same point as yesterdays, the pivot of the couplings means the buffers no longer contact each other

276153033_040721(1).JPG.cf6da3d7a1ce3204bd02983d82e8ae97.JPG

Bachmann coupling with 2 end lugs removed now pivots 

328479769_040721(2).JPG.c78a11b9b1e45319d162143e06ad66ec.JPG

37012 with load 8 consist on test passes through the reverse curve at Crianlarich and heads north

892979437_040721(5).JPG.72fbf4859da2bef2e8a6ae6afe21b475.JPG

1745251292_040721(4).JPG.e9488d2bb6569f56dbceabf926075bb3.JPG

 

 

Edited by young37215
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3 hours ago, young37215 said:

Having removed the lugs from 3 more grain wagons, a 7 wagon consist comprised respectively of 1 'out of the box' wagon then 1 with lugs removed ran successfully ran for 20 minutes around the lower loop without problems. The lower loop includes the reverse curve at Crianlarich indicating that my derailment issue has been resolved. The route of the problem appears to have been a combination of the non pivoting couplings and the lightweight model (Bachmann's grain wagon weighs 57g compared with a 90g VDA or the 77g Lima grain wagon) which meant that the radius of reverse 3rd radius curves could not be traversed without the couplings either lifting the wagon off of the track or locking as described by 37Oban above. The larger Bachmann couplings did not make any difference because the tension lock hook remains in a fixed position despite having a larger area in which it could move.  

 

My thanks to those who have suggested potential solutions, had one of the grain wagons not previously had its lugs removed I would have not been quite so keen to start hacking at the lugs. As it was I had a 'test' wagon which showed that removing the lugs was one effective way to solve the problem. I know the Bachmann grain wagon is an old design but its failings are disappointing for something with a £35 rrp and when most modern wagons have NEM couplings attached to bogies which pivot. I have bought a couple of 'ready to run' models of late (Heljan's ETHEL, Bachmann's grain wagon) that were not 'ready to run'. An indication that manufacturers have taken their eye off of the ball perhaps? 

 

Consist pictured at the same point as yesterdays, the pivot of the couplings means the buffers no longer contact each other

276153033_040721(1).JPG.cf6da3d7a1ce3204bd02983d82e8ae97.JPG

Bachmann coupling with 2 end lugs removed now pivots 

328479769_040721(2).JPG.c78a11b9b1e45319d162143e06ad66ec.JPG

37012 with load 8 consist on test passes through the reverse curve at Crianlarich and heads north

892979437_040721(5).JPG.72fbf4859da2bef2e8a6ae6afe21b475.JPG

1745251292_040721(4).JPG.e9488d2bb6569f56dbceabf926075bb3.JPG

 

 

Great news, the benefit of this rather than a longer coupling is you keep a nice sized gap. Now you just need to persuade someone to help us all and make a kit or RTR of the PAB’s to mix into the rake!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hopefully of interest to you aswell Rob but as Revolution are now taking orders for the Mullets and Parr track carrying wagons can I ask if anyone is aware of any photos of  them appearing on the WHL, please. I can only currently find photos of Salmons and one of my own shows a Sturgeon at FW, which makes me wonder if track being replaced on the WHL was built in situ from components or delivered to site ready made ?

 

Another one for the Engineer's trains ....I came across a B&W photo of a Mackerel hopper taken at Speen (Spean) Bridge in 1984 in Gulf Red livery this morning in Cheona's BR Wagons No.7 Engineer's Stock -1, p.22.

 

Regards,

Ian.

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Hi Ian

 

I was vaguely aware of Revolutions new range but due to my limited knowledge of historic engineering of the WHL I had not given them too much thought or consideration for WHL4. Engineering wagons on the WHL is an interesting but little covered subject and other than those of ballast carrying wagons I have seen very few pictures of engineering vehicles that might have been used for carrying rail. Upstream on this thread there is a picture of an OBA in use for carrying rail, beyond this I have only seen a couple of pictures of Salmon wagons in sidings. A quick search of Flickr returned the picture below, I am not sure what the wagon is?  

 

37410 - Rannoch 10 October 1996

 

The wider subject of track and track replacement on the WHL is equally unknown to me and an area I would like to develop more knowledge of. I think that the WHL was mostly jointed flat bottom rail on wooden sleepers during my 1980 -85 time window. It appears that concrete sleepers began to appear in the 1980's but I have no idea when CWR started to appear.The June 1983 picture below clearly shows jointed rail on wooden sleepers at Crianlarich. 

 

37051 Bridge of Orchy 919 Fort William to Glasgow QS 27Jun1983 37BR167

 

A few concrete sleepers started to appear in the mid 1980's presumably as a result of replacement of life expired wooden ones. Bridge of Orchy 1985 for example

 

Bridge of Orchy  WBHS Newcastle to Fort William 11th May 85 C6855

 

Ardlui 1985

 

Warning Tractors Crossing !   Ardlui 1985.

 

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Thanks Rob,

 

the wagon behind 37 410 is a PFA /KFA wagon, this one being used to carry the reels of paper from Corpach, hence the wedges on the flat surface. KFAs were also used for Aluminium slab traffic in the 90s.

 

As regards track I know that you can hear the regular 'clickerty-clack' of trains travelling over rail joints on most of the Driver's Eye type DVDs and that concrete sleepers were in use on the Killin branch before it closed in the mid 60s.

 

The fact that most of the pictures of the Salmon wagons seem to show them being fitted with the 2 small rail lifting cranes makes me think that 'most' replacement trackwork was built in situ from components which would make for an interesting train, rail on one wagon, sleepers maybe in an OBA type open and chairs in another type of open wagon (maybe one of the Seal wagons mentioned in the new Eng Wagons bookazine.)

 

I have a nagging feeling that I've seen some photos of  prefabricated track on wagons somewhere (possibly Irishswissernies site which I'll have to check ....again :yahoo_mini:)  but I may be getting confused with photos of track lifting on the Callandar & Oban line when part of it was closed.

 

I'll report back if I find anything of interest.

Hope all is well on WHL v.4 ....and those little, wee, nasty, horrible biting things are not running rampant during your July and August running sessions ! I'm starting to itch just at their mentioning !! :O

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited by 03060
Correction to wagon ID
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Having looked through 5 of Ernie's fabulous albums on Flikr I haven't come across any photos of Mullets or Parr wagons or any signs of pre-fabricated track being sent up the line, in fact any signs of track renewal seems to be by component construction which is seen either in or next to wagons at Ardlui, Oban, Crianlarich Upper, Tom-na-faire. The link below is probably the best ....and topically at Ardlui.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/45397608715/in/album-72157685023339563/

 

In order, looking towards the buffers I think we have a Plaice, two Pikes (exSPA), a wooden Bass (exOBA) and a Sealion ballast hopper and lots of diiferent components such as rails, sleepers (wooden and concrete) and ballast in evidence.

 

Other engineering wagons that turn up in Ernie's photos inside Rob's WHL v.4 period include : Mermaid, Dogfish, Mackerel and Turbots with ballast and Winkle (22t plate), Haddock, a Flatrol, Bass (exOCA), Medfit, Sturgeon and Turbots again with other things. Then there is Queen Mary brake van at Crianlarich and an ex.SECR Brake / Road van at Tom-na-faire. Just outside WHL v.4s period there is a Hake and a Rudd.

 

One photo taken at Crianlarich Upper shows x4 Medfits, a 12t Crane, x2 Medfits, a Sealion and a Dogfish in one of the goods sidings which may be of use to you Rob.

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

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  • 1 month later...
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Compared to some WHL modellers (you know who you are!) I am doing very little at present. We did have a day of running trains last week which reinforced an operational concern that has been occupying my thoughts for some time with Mallaig Junction Yard fiddle yard not working as it needs to when running to timetable.  The problem is that the run round loops are not long enough to hold typical length freight trains of 8 or so wagons resulting in trains fouling points and blocking off access to other loops. 

 

The 5 road fiddle yard needs changing to function more effectively; the before and after plan below shows visually what I intend doing. 3 shortish sidings will be removed and replaced by extending the existing run round loops. The net effect should be a 100% increase in the length of the 3 extended loops creating greater flexibility and comfortably allowing 10 wagon trains plus loco into each loop. A further bonus will be the removal of 2 sets of points and less shunting both of which should reduce derailment potential. A 3 way point has been purchased and will be installed over the next few days. 

 

IMG_2512.JPG.f247b15ad59091d0b2ad3a77aeac2f80.JPG

 

Sidings lifted and revised track placed in position prior to cutting it to fit and wiring up

IMG_2526.JPG.410751420f75fc5257fcbb8903ccf219.JPG

IMG_2525.JPG.3959e545f58f9ce2a464738b7774b1c7.JPG

  

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Revised track layout completed and full length freight trains now fit comfortably in all 3 extended loops. On paper this should make running the WTT easier but I need to try it in practice before I can be sure. Once I am comfortable this works I will connect the new track to the BUS and motorise the points but for now I rely on the fishplates to deliver power.

 

   IMG_2529.JPG.993db720efe8722d3421bcfd1d1bd06d.JPG

 

IMG_2528.JPG.d5e81e8c96eb9f48cb19f403e6414128.JPG

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On 30/08/2021 at 19:51, young37215 said:

Compared to some WHL modellers (you know who you are!) I am doing very little at present. We did have a day of running trains last week which reinforced an operational concern that has been occupying my thoughts for some time with Mallaig Junction Yard fiddle yard not working as it needs to when running to timetable.  The problem is that the run round loops are not long enough to hold typical length freight trains of 8 or so wagons resulting in trains fouling points and blocking off access to other loops. 

Rob,

 

Compared with myself you are doing much more modelling. I still have to 'master' the art of airbrushing before I can move on with anything on the layout.

 

Ian

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On 31/08/2021 at 19:29, young37215 said:

Revised track layout completed and full length freight trains now fit comfortably in all 3 extended loops. On paper this should make running the WTT easier but I need to try it in practice before I can be sure. Once I am comfortable this works I will connect the new track to the BUS and motorise the points but for now I rely on the fishplates to deliver power.

 

   IMG_2529.JPG.993db720efe8722d3421bcfd1d1bd06d.JPG

 

 

 

Morning Rob,

 

Nice to see pictures of WHL v.4 again. :good_mini: 

I'm quite interested in how you find this fiddle yard modìfication as hopefully I may be starting to lay my own this month but as it will likely have scenery and possibly other trackwork over it it won't be quite as accessible as yours once the next stage starts ...so I want to get it right first time if possible.

 

I need to think about whether I need to be able to run around from all sidings or whether I just need this facility on the Mallaig traffic sidings and not particularly on the Glasgow QS sidings where stock may be changed anyway. :scratch_one-s_head_mini:

 

Regards,

Ian.

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21 hours ago, 03060 said:

I need to think about whether I need to be able to run around from all sidings

Hi Ian

 

I decided a long time ago that fiddle yards work most effectively where there are run round loops so that shunting is kept to a minimum. The loops at Mallaig Junction Yard had already proved they deliver what I need to run a timetable, the increase in their length is purely about capacity. If what you plan doing is more like Fort William or Glasgow Queen Street stations where a different loco can simply drop on the back of rolling stock then the requirement for a loop is much reduced.  

 

On WHL 3 the main fiddle yard was underneath a scenic section. I had no major problems with this arrangement but much prefer my current set up where the fiddle yards are open and easily accessible even though this has meant I have lost space that could have scenic stuff on it. If you have a hidden fiddle yard then I recommend you install lighting; I did and it made life a lot easier.

 

IMG_3249.JPG.71bcc50109b0362dc5d77d5f6b59a8e9.JPG

IMG_3250.JPG.14217ef82adbf51e8960d49c9f6f2126.JPG

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An unexpected running day spent trialling the 1983 WTT and revised Mallaig Junction fiddle Yard arrangements all worked well. So far the revised Mallaig Junction Yard loops are delivering what I had hoped for. We only managed about 25% of the days operations but everything worked as planned; fingers crossed that this continues.  

 

37022 heads 8D10 at Crianlarich where is passes northbound 37026 on 1B10 

2124162059_090921(4).JPG.76567ff14a3fa4f509dc7487710a557e.JPG

507199526_090921(3).JPG.b695b32c870bd88c0717ab7492ef71cb.JPG

123904017_090921(5).JPG.12571ba48c7e2a95b3cff2d99fb4b52f.JPG

Mallaig Junction Yard seen with various trains passing through. 

125224425_090921(1).JPG.d8b530c606af5ed813605881dc2abd4c.JPG

1010057951_090921(2).JPG.839578d5f52d5467c5a0c240ee62b7e0.JPG

 

Edited by young37215
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On 12/05/2017 at 17:52, young37215 said:

I spend less time modelling during the spring and summer hence the lack of recent updates. However I cannot resist showing off my new WHL station building which arrived earlier today. It has been laser printed in card and built by Dawson Hall. I am delighted at what they have produced which is so much better than anything I could have scratch built and really captures the essence of the distinctive WHL Swiss chalet style buildings. 

 

This building will be used for Garelochead which is my next station project. Pictures show the building on an old platform used for design purposes and which is not flat hence the gaps under the building. Nevertheless it still looks brilliant. 

 

post-24755-0-55440900-1494601992_thumb.jpg

 

post-24755-0-91199300-1494602054_thumb.jpg

 

post-24755-0-60089000-1494602074_thumb.jpg

 

post-24755-0-01539300-1494602521_thumb.jpg  

I love the look of the station building and looked up Dawson Hall but can’t find any reference online. Have they ceased trading? Apologies if this has been covered later, I’ve just started wading through the thread from the beginning having dipped in before.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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19 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I love the look of the station building and looked up Dawson Hall but can’t find any reference online. Have they ceased trading? Apologies if this has been covered later, I’ve just started wading through the thread from the beginning having dipped in before.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

The Dawson Hall partnership is history. Ed Hall is one half of the former partnership and was still doing commission work when I last spoke to him in early 2021. Ed is a great character but a little bit old fashioned with little on line presence; I'll send you his phone number if you want to contact him.  

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1 hour ago, young37215 said:

 

The Dawson Hall partnership is history. Ed Hall is one half of the former partnership and was still doing commission work when I last spoke to him in early 2021. Ed is a great character but a little bit old fashioned with little on line presence; I'll send you his phone number if you want to contact him.  

Yes please. I’m hoping to build a model of Glenfinnan station and viaduct in O gauge in my garden. I know Dawson Hill did some o gauge stuff so I’m pleased to hear that at least part of the partnership might still be operational. I’ll PM you.

 

Andy

 

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On 06/04/2020 at 19:54, young37215 said:

37051 was a long termer on the WHL arriving in March 1981 on transfer from March. There is a great picture of her at Fort William in Nick Meskell's Scottish Class 37 Volume 1, page 38. She was one of the last WHL locos to lose the buffer skirts, round buffers and glass headcode which were removed in late 1984. I have renumbered what was originally 37034 to 37051 in the largely as built condition. A little more work is required to hide the renumbering and where nameplates were previously located, I hope to get close to the picture below.

 

Class 37 37051 at Fort William

 

1479021792_030420003.JPG.4e5fee3deee6c0c7d3c1f88076ca02dd.JPG

 

1112043075_030420004.JPG.9055b2d39e060af89d1bb56209c2dc09.JPG

 

I’m slowly working my way through this fantastic thread and I’ve got to the pictures above of my favourite 37, 37051.
 

I’m surprised by your assertion that she stayed with black dominos and buffer skirts until late 1984 as I have the picture below taken on my first trip to Mallaig on 8/8/83 which I’m 99% sure is 37051. I know that 37051 hauled me from Glasgow (with assistance from 20045 to Tulloch) and this is the return working although we caught the ferry to Kyle so I didn’t travel back with her.

 

I'm converting my Heljan class 37 to 37051 and I’d like an excuse to leave her with skirts, so I’d be grateful if you could point me in the right direction for any evidence to support the late 1984 date as I’d love to be proved wrong!

 

FD480712-A8FB-46CC-987E-518DB78F8EDD.jpeg.b6a1cc6851759448efff94aaae5bb2cf.jpeg

 

Ps. I have more photos from that trip if you’re interested.

 

Andy

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52 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

I’m slowly working my way through this fantastic thread and I’ve got to the pictures above of my favourite 37, 37051.
 

I’m surprised by your assertion that she stayed with black dominos and buffer skirts until late 1984 as I have the picture below taken on my first trip to Mallaig on 8/8/83 which I’m 99% sure is 37051. I know that 37051 hauled me from Glasgow (with assistance from 20045 to Tulloch) and this is the return working although we caught the ferry to Kyle so I didn’t travel back with her.

 

I'm converting my Heljan class 37 to 37051 and I’d like an excuse to leave her with skirts, so I’d be grateful if you could point me in the right direction for any evidence to support the late 1984 date as I’d love to be proved wrong!

 

FD480712-A8FB-46CC-987E-518DB78F8EDD.jpeg.b6a1cc6851759448efff94aaae5bb2cf.jpeg

 

Ps. I have more photos from that trip if you’re interested.

 

Andy

 

I'm afraid that I've also found a September 1983 photo showing a skirtless 37 051 at Mallaig in Tom Noble's WH Mallaig Extension book (p.60.)

 

If you don't want to hack your model, Andy, can I suggest 37 039 which still had it's skirts on in May 1985 with black headcode boxes (p.28 of the same book) although these were yellow in 1984.

 

I would love to see more of your photos, please, Andy, but with all due respect to Rob it's not my thread.

 

Regards,

Ian.

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