Schlieren bogies 00 - New Supplier of sprung version

[Mike Storey]

Hello All

 

PLEASE SEE CHANGE OF THREAD TITLE - MOST OF WHAT APPEARS BELOW WAS WRITTEN BEFORE SOME PEOPLE KINDLY PROVIDED THIS INFO - Many thanks to them.

 

Schlieren bogies, of the type I need, were used under the earlier 102t TEA bogie tanks and under most of the Sheerness Steel 102t bogie scrap wagons, and possibly on others of which I am not aware.

 

The only current supplier of these, in 00/4mm, is Colin Craig, but as brass etch kits, well beyond my skills, and only of infrequent availability (so far). I have been spectacularly unsuccessful in obtaining early TEA's with the right bogies, through ebay or second hand dealers.

 

Having obtained some drawings, at long last, I am having a batch made as white metal kits in 00 gauge, minus wheels, axles, fixing bolt to chassis and tensioning bar, all easily obtainable elsewhere. Cost per bogie is likely to be around £5 to £7 (plus postage), including a share of the original mould cost, but depends on overall number ordered. I guess it would be possible to have some made to EM or P4 gauge, but that would require three of the pieces to have an additional cast, for which you would have to pay the full mould cost. You could just use parts of this kit as cosmetic sides, and the rest is up to you.  I am not looking to make a profit on these, but do seek to cover extra costs beyond the number I need. I am doing this in the spirit of sharing opportunities with other modellers and not as a commercial proposition. I do not guarantee absolute accuracy, but the initial trial mock-up looks good enough for me. I will publish photos of the first test outputs, when available probably in late March.

 

If you are interested at all, please indicate here or by PM. I will not hold you to your interest, until we get to final prices and test shots, but it would be nice to know whether others of you have the vaguest interest!

 

Thanks,

Mike

Edited March 29, 2018 by Mike Storey

[Southernman46]

This thread might be worth a re-visit ............

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56644-0121modellers-workbench/?hl=%2Bsheerness+%2Bsteel

 

This chap disappeared all of a sudden - I always hoped that it was nothing terrible

Edited February 5, 2017 by Southernman46

[Mike Storey]

This thread might be worth a re-visit ............

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56644-0121modellers-workbench/?hl=%2Bsheerness+%2Bsteel

 

This chap disappeared all of a sudden - I always hoped that it was nothing terrible

 

Yes, thanks. Been right through it when it was first posted, and gave it some lengthy thought - it is a very clever approach and good craftsmanship. Nigel Burkin also describes how to scratchbuild these in one of his books. But I need at least twenty bogies and I did not fancy doing all that! I am also using donor wagon bodies (MBA's) that are almost exactly the right length and height, so just need the stanchions re-worked and the detail changed, then these bogies added, which is much easier than a total start from scratch.

 

Thanks anyway! Are you looking for some?

[royaloak]

I would be interested in at least 6 bogies 'just in case' I need them later.

 

Better to stock up when available than rue the day later.

[Mike Storey]

I would be interested in at least 6 bogies 'just in case' I need them later.

 

Better to stock up when available than rue the day later.

 

Thanks - sorry to be pedantic, but just to be clear: is that six pairs, or six individual? I will let you know a cost and publish photos, probably mid to late March, before you commit.

 

Regards, Mike

[royaloak]

Thanks - sorry to be pedantic, but just to be clear: is that six pairs, or six individual? I will let you know a cost and publish photos, probably mid to late March, before you commit.

 

Regards, Mike

6 bogies, but finances permitting nearer the time I could take some more, at the moment 6 bogies is definite.

 

Sorry about that, I could have been clearer.

Edited February 7, 2017 by royaloak

[Nick Holliday]

 

 

 

Having obtained some drawings, at long last, I am having a batch made as white metal kits in 00 gauge, minus wheels, axles, fixing bolt to chassis and tensioning bar, all easily obtainable elsewhere. Cost per bogie is likely to be around £5 to £7 (plus postage), including a share of the original mould cost, but depends on overall number ordered. I guess it would be possible to have some made to EM or P4 gauge, but that would require three of the pieces to have an additional cast, for which you would have to pay the full mould cost. You could just use parts of this kit as cosmetic sides, and the rest is up to you.  

 

 

Just a technical query, as I am not in the market for such modern items, unless the LBSCR was well ahead of its time. Why do you think the bogie would be unsuitable for EM and P4 modellers?  As far as I know, if using Gibson or similar wheels, the axle length is the same for all three gauges, so all that might be needed to be adjusted would be any brakes to get them to line up with the wheels. Or have you designed the kit to take a particular make of wheel with non-standard length axles?

[Mike Storey]

Just a technical query, as I am not in the market for such modern items, unless the LBSCR was well ahead of its time. Why do you think the bogie would be unsuitable for EM and P4 modellers?  As far as I know, if using Gibson or similar wheels, the axle length is the same for all three gauges, so all that might be needed to be adjusted would be any brakes to get them to line up with the wheels. Or have you designed the kit to take a particular make of wheel with non-standard length axles?

 

Thanks for that. You are telling me stuff beyond my ken, as I have had no dealings with P4/EM. I just asked the mould maker to ensure they would take an 00 axle and wheels, and left him to sort that out, for testing on the mock up. I will check up on that and find out. Just to make sure, what is the axle length that we need to be common, in mm?

 

Cheers.

[Fat Controller]

Out of interest, are you using a cast bolster or an etched one? Having built quite a few cast bogies over the years (from Appleby, Mendip and others), I found it difficult to get things square with cast bolsters. In most cases, I eventually used a etched brass, fold-up and solder, bolster and sideframe assembly, the cast sides being fitted once I was happy things were square.

[royaloak]

If the bogie is made to accept the standard length (whatever that is) then it should automatically accept EM and P4 wheelsets making everyones life easier.

 

If they can be designed from the outset with that in mind it shouldnt increase the development costs at all.

[Mike Storey]

Out of interest, are you using a cast bolster or an etched one? Having built quite a few cast bogies over the years (from Appleby, Mendip and others), I found it difficult to get things square with cast bolsters. In most cases, I eventually used a etched brass, fold-up and solder, bolster and sideframe assembly, the cast sides being fitted once I was happy things were square.

 

Hi. All will be cast. A brass etch fold up one is available (or will be, I am not sure,) from Colin Craig. I have gone for cast as, having tried to master brass folding and soldering (on a different model), I could not get it right - my bad. On cast, where I have done it with single axle chassis, I have found that using a non-instant super-glue, using a glass base and miniature angle clamps, I could achieve a square and level chassis, after some trial and error. The axle (bush) holes will be partially pre-moulded, so that any adjustment can be made if needed, but these should provide a more reliable guide to centring. Hence my preference for cast, but I perfectly understand each to their own.

 

Of course, the proof will only be in the pudding. These will be essentially for people who can scratch build, as I don't intend to write any instructions, as my way may not be the best. Once I have made up a few, I will report my success or otherwise! But I am putting my own money into this, and am prepared to risk it if it does not work, and offer the opportunity to others to take the same risk, but without the initial up-front cost. If people wish to wait to see if does work, that's fine, but I am not sure what the cost will be for a follow on. The mould will be fine, but I am not sure what the maker will charge for extras after the initial batch. Hopefully not too different.

[Grovenor]

Just to make sure, what is the axle length that we need to be common, in mm?

Standard axles are 26mm over the pinpoints.

Regards

[Mike Storey]

Standard axles are 26mm over the pinpoints.

Regards

 

Thanks for that Keith. I intend to use the Markits 4mm/00 Romford 12mm blackened brass, disc wheelsets MRJ12di/b (although I still have to work out which 2mm axle bush is correct), but their catalogue does not state an axle length. Some sets do state lengths of 24mm, 24.5mm or 26mm, but most state no length. The disc set below this one, for carriage bogies, does state 26mm. They do not state any differences for EM/P4 - in fact they do not mention them at all in this catalogue, but I do know such modellers use these sets too. I can email them to ask, but should I assume that any wheelset, unless otherwise stated, would normally be 26mm?

Edited February 8, 2017 by Mike Storey

[Grovenor]

Thanks for that Keith. I intend to use the Markits 4mm/00 Romford 12mm blackened brass, disc wheelsets MRJ12di/b (although I still have to work out which 2mm axle bush is correct), but their catalogue does not state an axle length. Some sets do state lengths of 24mm, 24.5mm or 26mm, but most state no length. The disc set below this one, for carriage bogies, does state 26mm. They do not state any differences for EM/P4 - in fact they do not mention them at all in this catalogue, but I do know such modellers use these sets too. I can email them to ask, but should I assume that any wheelset, unless otherwise stated, would normally be 26mm?

Well now, the standard for 00/EM/P4 is 26mm and most are that length, but variances do occur so assumptions can be wrong. Why do you need 2mm axle bushes? Are you using inside bearings? Or do you mean the coned bearings fot the pinpoint axle ends?

Looking at the Markits catalogue they do say that all wheels are available on 26mm axles or 20mm bogie axles (which would be for inside bearings) so best you specify when ordering.

Regards

Edited February 8, 2017 by Grovenor

[Mike Storey]

Well now, the standard for 00/EM/P4 is 26mm and most are that length, but variances do occur so assumptions can be wrong. Why do you need 2mm axle bushes? Are you using inside bearings? Or do you mean the coned bearings fot the pinpoint axle ends?

Looking at the Markits catalogue they do say that all wheels are available on 26mm axles or 20mm bogie axles (which would be for inside bearings) so best you specify when ordering.

Regards

 

Many thanks. I did not spot the mention of axle lengths - I must read through it again. Is that in a preamble or separate section to the list of wheels? I mean the coned bearings for pinpoint axle ends.

[Grovenor]

Many thanks. I did not spot the mention of axle lengths - I must read through it again. Is that in a preamble or separate section to the list of wheels? I mean the coned bearings for pinpoint axle ends.

Its a footnote right at the bottom of the wheel listing, For bearings either the shouldered or waisted are Ok, if in doubt get the waisted as they need a significantly smaller hole drilling in the back of the axlebox.

regards

[Zunnan]

I've let Dave (0121modeller) know about this thread. He's still around and still scratch building with his usual finesse, he just avoids forums thesedays

[Mike Storey]

I've let Dave (0121modeller) know about this thread. He's still around and still scratch building with his usual finesse, he just avoids forums thesedays

 

Many thanks. We had wondered what had happened when he suddenly stopped posting. Very good to hear.

[richard60098]

Hi Mike, i'd be wanting some unsure on numbers yet thou? I do still have a good mix of Appleby bogies including these listed as i was going to use them on my Sheerness Steel bodies but i sold them on! Also of note are the Gloucester GPS Bogies another style i'm unaware anyone has done barring those small dodgy things Genesis do! And now with Appleby doing transfer packs only i'm kinda stuck on the things i wanted to do as those needed GPS on them but i'm all out of those particular ones after just finishing a bogie tank off.

 

Thanks

 

Rich

[Mike Storey]

Hi Mike, i'd be wanting some unsure on numbers yet thou? I do still have a good mix of Appleby bogies including these listed as i was going to use them on my Sheerness Steel bodies but i sold them on! Also of note are the Gloucester GPS Bogies another style i'm unaware anyone has done barring those small dodgy things Genesis do! And now with Appleby doing transfer packs only i'm kinda stuck on the things i wanted to do as those needed GPS on them but i'm all out of those particular ones after just finishing a bogie tank off.

 

Thanks

 

Rich

 

Ok Rich. You don't need to make your mind up until I get the test done and will post some images, probably late March. I am not sure where the originals came from that we are basing these moulds on. I picked them up at a swap meet some years ago, in a plastic bag marked Schlieren bogies, but no maker.

[Tinsley Snail]

Hi Mike,

 

I am interested in a couple of pairs of bogies please

 

Thanks

 

Marcus

[Mike Storey]

Hi Mike,

 

I am interested in a couple of pairs of bogies please

 

Thanks

 

Marcus

 

Thanks Marcus - as above, I will post some pics and dimensions etc in late March, before you make a final decision.

[chriswild]

Hi

Not sure if you know about these, I have a recentish price list from s kits listing the schlieren bodies, are there more than 1 variant? I would be interested for the ones that are under some TEA,s, but don't know if they are the same, I did ask for an image of the bogie when I ordered a JSA kit from s kits but nothing so far, it would be useful to know to save possible duplication, as far a I can see they're a relatively new addition .

Chris

[Dungrange]

The S-Kits price list that I have (June last year) has these bogies as catalogue item BG31 at £5.10 per pair.  Unfortunately I don't have any to post a picture to compare with the ones that you are developing.

 

S Kits list June 16.pdf

 

[Mike Storey]

Hi

Not sure if you know about these, I have a recentish price list from s kits listing the schlieren bodies, are there more than 1 variant? I would be interested for the ones that are under some TEA,s, but don't know if they are the same, I did ask for an image of the bogie when I ordered a JSA kit from s kits but nothing so far, it would be useful to know to save possible duplication, as far a I can see they're a relatively new addition .

Chris

 

Thanks Chris and thanks David - well, bu88er me! All these years searching for someone who produces these bogies and, just when I start the ball rolling to make my own......I think I will order and try out a pair of these to see if they are (a) easy to build (I presume they are whitemetal, but could be resin?) and (b) look right.

 

As for whether TEA and POA/JXA Schlierens were the same, I can only say that they look the same superficially, when you consult photos on Paul Bartlett's site, and that is good enough for me! I have only ever heard of one type in use in the UK, but there were/are definitely more than one type in use in Europe, as I found to my cost when I bought a couple of Roco (IIRC) tankers some years ago, to cannibalise for this project......

 

I will suspend all work on the ones I have commenced, until we know what's what. No point in me making them (with the big upfront cost) if there is now a perfectly suitable version available. I am away for several weeks shortly, but will order these on my return.

 

Many thanks for this info and, hopefully, saving me much time and sovs!