Southern Railway Modelling - Miscellaneous Project work

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Jack,

I've been playing catch up with your thread and found it quite fascinating, thanks for the good read.

Another follower here!

Cheers,

John.

[Jack P]

Hi Jack,

I've been playing catch up with your thread and found it quite fascinating, thanks for the good read.

Another follower here!

Cheers,

John.

 

John, Thank you very much! I'm glad it's of interest to people!

I hope you enjoy what is to come, and of course, opinions and comments are always welcome.

 

We will start off with the WD 2-8-0, It was recently picked up at a local show for a ridiculously cheap price, but was LNER liveried. I posted up a thread asking about he placement of the smokebox door lamp irons, it came down to 'pick your prototype' as it turns out that there were a fair few variations between the class. I managed to decide on 77090 which was a Hither Green loco her whole life.

 

Sadly After one run on the club layout (as can be seen in a previous post) The motor seized. Joy of joys. I did flick an email off to Bachmann in regards to a replacement motor. so will see what they say, hopefully in the interim I can get it finished. 

 

 

Sadly until the motor arrives it's out of action, the chassis isn't very free running so I wonder if that had anything to do with it. I'll see what I can do. I am currently in the process of adding  detailing and a crew. I stated with picking out the backhead details

 

 

I also tried to find the appropriate sized numbers for the cabsides, however I think these are a bit big

 

 

And I now realise I didn't take any pictures of the bufferbeam, but I managed to find the correct size numbers. I also fitted screw link couplings and vacuum pipes front and rear. You can also see the smokebox lamp irons fitted - only just though.

 

 

 

Next up is the LSWR gate stock set, 373:

 

 

Which I had for approx 5 mins before I pulled them apart, detailing pack fitted to the driving end, and underframes, ends and wheels airbrushed dirty black.

 

 

 

They are now apart again, hopefully for passengers, because their absence is noticed much more due to the open layout of the coach. The roof comes away, which is excellent as they are going to be weathered next!

 

Now i'm not sure if I should repaint them the same as I did the the LSWR rebuilds - does anyone know where I can get the 'THIRD' in Sunshine style? The Bulleid HMRS sheet doesn't have it.

 

That's all till next time, thanks for reading!

[Tony Teague]

Hi Jack

 

It may be an odd coincidence, but my Bachmann WD, also picked up 2nd hand and fairly cheaply runs so slowly and draws so much current that it might as well be seized up. Perhaps they were from the same batch! Mine did not have the air pumps on the front so I had these 3D printed; I am not at all sure about the WD logos and if I ever get around to changing the motor, then it certainly needs some heavy weathering.

 

I like your boldness with the new gate stock; I shall need to do the same, but I was worried about the precedent of putting people inside as I don't have passengers anywhere else (well except inside my Pullman Observation coach, which like the Gate Stock is very open to view.

 

Tony

[Tony Teague]

Jack

Have you seen this thread?

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81877-new-motor-needed-for-Bachmann-wd-2-8-0/

I might try some switchcleaner around the motor to see if it helps.

Tony

[71000]

Jack,

 

Thanks for the comments (on my page Basingstoke). Yes lots of coaches. However with so many of them, I need you to migrate to Spain. So you can practice your skills of weathering on them. 

 

By the way I do like the Bachmann Lord Nelson you have done very nicely...

 

I also note you have received your "Gate stock" in NZ, but mine haven't yet arrived in Spain. Have to go an harass the local Spanish Post Office in the morning I think. Mind you as you've got some good pictures of them already in pieces, I'm studying those pics closely.....

 

Keep up the good work, shame we are at opposite ends of the planet........

 

Yours

Identity crisis Avengers (71000)

[John Tomlinson]

Bear in mind the Bachmann WD is geared to go pretty slowly. It has been suggested that on the real thing much over 30mph gave rise to a very rough ride indeed, so we wouldn't want our models to go that fast!

 

Having said that, my 90015 does seem to have slowed a bit of late. This was one of the first issues, and whilst none of my locos have been hammered it has seen reasonable use. Your one may also be getting on a bit now, say 15 years plus, particularly as there looks to be no DCC fittings, and so time for the chassis to have a good strip down and clean as you have done. I've found on many models of this era that the grease applied by the manufacturer was both overdone and congeals badly with age, so the clean should help the running. From memory there is a spring arrangement on one of the inner axles, I'm not sure it adds a lot in practice, but quite a nice touch.

 

John.

[Jack P]

I like your boldness with the new gate stock; I shall need to do the same, but I was worried about the precedent of putting people inside as I don't have passengers anywhere else (well except inside my Pullman Observation coach, which like the Gate Stock is very open to view.

 

Thanks Tony! If I can find the correct replacement transfers they will definitely be getting resprayed. They come apart really easily, and it looks like the glass wouldn't be too hard to get out. the the gate section,as you can see, just slides out. Will keep you updated with how I go!

 

As for the WD, It did seem to me like it was geared slow, I got in contact with Bachmann who I ordered a new motor through. I did try and clean the existing out with electrical cleaner but it refused to turn over. As for the springing arrangement that John referred to, there are two axles the second and last set of the drivers that are sprung. I took the chassis apart and i plan to soak it in a a solution to try and get rid of some of the grease that seems to have got very sticky.

 

71000 (The Duke), Thank you for your kind words! I'm glad you like the Nelson, I'm definitely getting more confident. If i'm ever over in spain i'll come say hi! Also If you need any further pictures of the gate stock in pieces let me know!

 

A quick update!

 

I decided to shorten the loco/tender connection on the King Authurs I've got, however in doing so, I lost the electrical connection and thus the pick ups from the 8 bogie wheels on the tender. If the front bogie had pickups, then I probably wouldn't have bothered, but for a loco with 18 wheels on the track it seemed a little silly to go down to only 6 picking up current. I ordered some Micro connections from ebay and decided to give it a crack

 

 

 

I drilled a hole in the tender, above the bogie, but far enough forward to still allow movement, and then cut it into a square-ish, the closeup shows that it's almost closer to a triangle than a square though - haha

 

 

Then made up a small plastikard spacer to make sure there was a tight fit with no glue

 

 

Then soldered up the plug on the loco and made sure it all worked ok - I need to get some heatshrink

 

 

All I need to do is paint the red wire, and its done. Also adds a little bit of detailing between loco and tender

 

 

That's all for now, thanks for reading. More updates soon!

[71000]

Thanks Tony! If I can find the correct replacement transfers they will definitely be getting resprayed. They come apart really easily, and it looks like the glass wouldn't be too hard to get out. the the gate section,as you can see, just slides out. Will keep you updated with how I go!

 

As for the WD, It did seem to me like it was geared slow, I got in contact with Bachmann who I ordered a new motor through. I did try and clean the existing out with electrical cleaner but it refused to turn over. As for the springing arrangement that John referred to, there are two axles the second and last set of the drivers that are sprung. I took the chassis apart and i plan to soak it in a a solution to try and get rid of some of the grease that seems to have got very sticky.

 

71000 (The Duke), Thank you for your kind words! I'm glad you like the Nelson, I'm definitely getting more confident. If i'm ever over in spain i'll come say hi! Also If you need any further pictures of the gate stock in pieces let me know!

 

A quick update!

 

I decided to shorten the loco/tender connection on the King Authurs I've got, however in doing so, I lost the electrical connection and thus the pick ups from the 8 bogie wheels on the tender. If the front bogie had pickups, then I probably wouldn't have bothered, but for a loco with 18 wheels on the track it seemed a little silly to go down to only 6 picking up current. I ordered some Micro connections from ebay and decided to give it a crack

 

 

 

I drilled a hole in the tender, above the bogie, but far enough forward to still allow movement, and then cut it into a square-ish, the closeup shows that it's almost closer to a triangle than a square though - haha

 

 

Then made up a small plastikard spacer to make sure there was a tight fit with no glue

 

 

Then soldered up the plug on the loco and made sure it all worked ok - I need to get some heatshrink

 

 

All I need to do is paint the red wire, and its done. Also adds a little bit of detailing between loco and tender

 

 

That's all for now, thanks for reading. More updates soon!

Jack,

Yep been down this road with a least one of my KA's.  The wire you are using between loco and tender, may prove a bit too thick, and resistant to movement in curves. Which may result in tender derailments. I avoid retail outlets for electrical products (too expensive), and head for a Commercial outlet (in Britain City Electrical Factors). For much of my layout wiring and such jobs as you are doing here. I use "Burglar alarm cable" which is the same size as telephone cable. But is multi-stranded so stronger, unlike telephone cable which is "Hard drawn" (one strand) and has a nasty habit of breaking inside its cover so you can never pinpoint the break. I can get a 100 metre roll of Burglar Alarm cable with 12 wires inside, each in a different colour, so 1200 metres (1.2Km) of wire in total, for about £35GBP. Not sure about NZ, but I would imagine electricians don't buy there wire and electrical goods in retail outlets !

 

The other problem with these tenders is that for some daft reason, the wires to the bogies are expected to both pass through one hole to one side of the bogie pivot.  This resists the bogie turning and on more than one of my locos I found one wire was broken before I even got the loco home. I therefore drill a second hole the other side of the bogie pivot, so each wire can go directly to the pick up plate directly below the hole. This greatly reduces the drag on the bogie when it is trying to turn, so reducing cable movement, which in turn, reduces the wiggling effect at the solder joint, which sooner or later would otherwise break ! 

 

71000

[John Tomlinson]

The closing of the loco/ tender gap is a major enhancement, perhaps the most striking we can perform on our models IMHO. I wonder what the distance is now - with 27inch minimum curves I aim for somewhere between 2.5 and 3mm, which is close to reality for many prototypes.

 

On the Hornby locos such as the Arthur above, it is sometimes possible to move the brass pin and board on the tender backwards by a mill or two, so that the Hornby connection system can still be used. This involves grinding off the top of the pin so it is released, and then filling the hole and re-drilling further back. Your solution, which looks similar to that also used later by Hornby, is a bit more elegant. I've also tried moving the old style Hornby connector forward on the loco, but this get quite tricky and I won't be doing it again!

 

Fascinating thread, the quality of your re-sprays is outstanding.

 

John.

[Nile]

Jack those micro connectors look useful, have you got a link to them on ebay?

[Jack P]

Nile - this link should see you right

 

John - I had played around with the idea for other ways of shortening the connection and eventually decided on retaining the ability to uncouple the tender, I used the coupling provided on the Hornby schools class locos as the new permanent connection between loco and tender is not ideal for me as I would prefer to be able to disconnect the loco/tender without having to whip out a screwdriver. I still have another KA to do though so we shall see what else I can think of!

 

Duke - The placement of this was thought out to some extent - the bogie wheel can pivot freely and the wires aren't too big so as they still allow free movement. I do however need to look into modifying the bogie wires as you have done. Maybe some more 'Clever design' is needed? 

[RAY NORWOOD]

Update!

 

 

I've been working on detailing the motive power for my upcoming layout, dirty black on the flat surfaces and below the footplate. Need to make a start on weathering further. The green ones are easy, but the black ones i'm unsure of, so they look a little plain at the moment.

 

 

I also picked up hornbys excellent '700', which was an absolute steal from a certain online model store (ex vat is a great thing). I always had plans to update into sunshine livery, So after some useful advice, and some enamel thinners,and matte varnish, it looked like this:

 

 

I seem to have knocked the rear most lamp iron off the top of the tender, I've made this same ham fisted mistake with my T9, if anyone can advise where you obtain frets of these lamp irons from - as i thought it was roxey but can't seem to find them.

 

This mornings efforts left me with this:

 

 

I have had to use Modelmaster Waterslide decals, but I'm not a fan, I really think pressfix is the way to go, the only issue is HMRS are sold out, and after some communication, it will be a while until they have any more. A backlog of Methfix Bulleid decals are preventing them for ordering new stock - so i may have to try methfix, or just leave the loco black for now.

 

I also had a bit of an unfortunate purchase from ebay, in the form of "Cheltenham".

 

 

If memory serves, some engines had a chassis made of mazak (sp?) and this one was absolutely rooted. The front looked a bit funky too:

 

 

Long story short, the chassis was crumbling to bits, and had snapped up the front where the cylinders connect to the main chassis. I did manage to salvage the body, wheels, bogie, motor, a few gubbins and the tender. Sadly what was left of the chassis was only really fit for the bin. Although I might take to it with an angle grinder and make some weights.Thankfully the seller was extremely forthcoming and a refund was agreed upon, so no complaints here.

 

 

A lamp iron is also missing here, but that will be fixed in due course.

 

Having a spare tender meant that I was able to finally re-create one of my favorite photos from a: Southern Railways Liveries by Brian Haresnape. Page 38 shows a schools class in malachite, with a Lematire chimney and the back of the tender painted black with no number on the rear of the tender. Once I'm able to find a new schools chassis I will be recreating this engine in hopefully running form. The only Minor discrepancy is that the loco is in pre-war malachite.

 

I think rule 1 will apply here though 

 

That's all for now!

Hi Jack P

You was saying about the schools chassis was missing on one of your schools loco. If you able to build loco chassis, Comets do a schools chassis kit, you might need axle bearings to Sout the Hornby driving wheels or get Romford wheels from Markets.

[RAY NORWOOD]

A brief update, I have managed to find another schools who's chassis I can nab, it will also leave me with a bunch of spares, which is great! I also referenced the photo of the wartime schools class, steps are painted and lined, but so are the smoke deflectors, which means it's sharing both pre and post wartime malachite styles, which is confusing. Either way, my model will become 938 'St Olaves', which I made a start on this morning .

 

 

Not very exciting but until I can sort some pressfix or maybe succumb to methfix, I will wait. The waterslide transfers got a coat of varnish today too, and look abysmal, so I will have to sort that out. It's okay from a distance and some angles but it's not really good enough. I also quickly made up a fall-plate in the same style as the one I did for wellington. Black areas have been painted 'Dirty black' and the pipework and nameplates are still off while i figure out a way to straighten the front of the running plate.

 

I also made up some more route discs with train reporting numbers on them, Guildford had the reporting numbers allocated between 180-230, a few of the others are Nine Elms and Feltham.

 

 

Finally, my favourite 'Never-Was' of all time.

 

 

Hopefully I'll have more exciting things to report soon.

 

That's all for now!

Hi Jack

The numbers on the head code discs is the Crewe duty numbers.

[OnTheBranchline]

Do you prefer the Malachite or Olive green?

[71000]

Jack.

As mentioned by "Ray70B" the numbers seen on the headcode discs of Southern locos, were the Loco Duty numbers.  

 

I'm not sure if you have picked a line to model or even a specific shed. However the following may be of use, as each specific number was normally on a specific type of locomotive, baring the loco failing. In which case the number and the disc it was stuck too would probably have been transfered to the loco replacing the failure. The reason for these numbers was because the locos duty throughout the day, would mean it being manned often by more than one crew. So especially on busy Summer Saturdays, a crew waiting to relieve a train, could ensure they were relieving the right one, by the duty number stuck to one of the discs. The numbers were normally printed on paper, and stuck to the disc. But you could often see these numbers slapped on in grease, scratched on in coal dust, even sometimes upsidedown !

 

I have tried to select Duties for a range of locos that you already have models for, working from various sheds. Obviously as my records only go back to around 1954, as my layout Basingstoke is based on the era 1958-67. I have used the earliest Engine Working Notices I have, which probably had not changed much since your chosen era. 

 

Examples taken from South Western Division BR Engine Working Noticies (EWN) 1954-58. 

 

Duty No 3 Nine Elms shed Mon-Fri for a WC/BB 7P 4-6-2

02.25 Nine Elms shed - Waterloo (Light Loco)

02.55 Waterloo - Bournemouth Central (Newspapers, Parcels and Passenger)

06.10 Bournemouth Central - Bournemouth West (Light Loco)

08.14 Bournemouth West - Waterloo 

11.45 Waterloo - Clapham Junction (Vans)

12.05 Clapahm - Nine Elms shed (Light Loco) 

15.42 Nine Elms shed - Waterloo (Light Loco)

16.22 Waterloo - Bournemouth West

20.10 Bournemouth West - Nine Elms shed (Light Loco) arr 00.15.

 

Duty No 6 Nine Elms shed Mon-Fri for a Merchant Navy 8P 4-6-2.

10.27 Nine Elms shed - Waterloo (Light Loco)

11.00 Waterloo - Exeter Central

14.08 Exeter Central - Exmouth Junction shed

18.23 Exmouth Junction shed - Exeter Central

18.48 Exeter Central - Clapham Junction Up Main Loop (Royal Mail)

01.30 Clapham Up Main loop - Waterloo (Empty Mail Vans)

01.55 Waterloo - Nine Elms shed (Light Loco)

 

Duty No 22 Nine Elms shed Mon-Fri for a Schools class 5P 4-4-0

04.03 Nine Elms shed - Waterloo (Light Loco)

04.45 Waterloo - Salisbury

09.21 Salisbury - Templecombe 

11.20 Templecombe - Yeovil Junction 

12.35 Yeovil Junction - Yeovil Town

To Yeovil Town shed 13.05-14.40

14.40 Yeovil shed to Yeovilk Junction (Light Loco)

14.55 Yeovil Junction - Salisbury (13.10 ex Exeter train)

16.40 Salisbury - West Sidings (ECS)

17.00 West Sidings - Salisbury (ECS)

17.15 Salisbury - Waterloo

21.02 Waterloo - Clapham Yard (ECS)

21.20 Clapham Yard - Nine Elms (Light Loco) 

 

 

Duty No 103 Feltham shed Tues-Fri for a S15 6F 4-6-0

04.07 Feltham Yard - Eastleigh Yard (Freight)

To Eastleigh shed 07.45- 09.15

09.43 Eastleigh Yard to Southampton Docks (Freight)

13.25 Southampton Docks - Feltham Yard

To Feltham shed 18.00 - 22.15

22.45 Feltham Yard - Eastleigh Yard

To Eastleigh shed 02.55. Stabled for Duty 104.

 

 

Duty No 125 Feltham shed  Mon-Fri for a Q1 5F 0-6-0

03.45 Feltham shed - Feltham Yard

04.15 Feltham Yard - Nine Elms Goods (Freight)

05.15 Nine Elms Goods - Clapham Yard (Light Loco)

07.22 Clapham Yard - Waterloo (Empty Coaching Stock)

08.43 Waterloo - Nine Elms Shed (Light Loco)

10.30 Nine Elms Loco - Nine Elms Goods (Light Loco)

11.00 Nine Elms Goods - Feltham Yard (Freight)

12.57 Feltham Yard - Brent No2 Yard London Midland Region (Freight)

15.10 Brent No2 Yard - Feltham Yard (Freight)

To Feltham shed 17.00

 

 

Duty No 231 Basingstoke shed Mon-Sat for a N15 Class 5P 4-6-0.

Mon-Fri 12.02 Basingstoke - Waterloo - Basingstoke

Sat  12.12 Basingstoke-Waterloo-Salisbury.

Loco returned to Basingstoke on a Sun Salisbury job.

 

Duty No 232 Basingstoke shed Mon-Sat for an N15 King Arthur class  5P 4-6-0 .

 08.25 Basingstoke -Waterloo

19.39 Waterloo to Basingstoke.

 

Duty No 242 Basingstoke shed Mon-Sat for a 700 Class "Black Motor" 3F 0-6-0 (Freight)

05.30 Basingstoke - Bulford

Shunt at Bulford 08.55-12.15

Bulford - Amesbury

16.35 Amesbury - Basingstoke

 

Duty No 248 Andover shed Sat for a T9 3P 4-4-0

06.20 Andover Junction - Southampton Terminus.

08.33 Southampton Terminus - Andover Junction

11.20 Andover Junction - Eastleigh

13.12 Easteligh - Portsmouth and Southsea 

14.20 To Fratton shed

15.55 Light Loco to Fareham

17.11 Fareham - Portsmouth and Southsea

18.45 Portsmouth and Southsea -  Southampton Central

20.10 Southampton Central - Bournemouth West

22.18 Bournemouth West - Eastleigh shed Light Loco

 

1958

Duty No 270 Eastlegh shed Mon-Fri for a 4P5F N class 2-6-0

02.30 Easteligh shed - Eastleigh Yard

03.10 Eastleigh Yard - Southampton Docks (Freight)

04.35 Southampton Docks - Southampton Terminus (Light Loco)

05.47 Southampton Terminus - Totton

06.28 Totton - Newbury (via DN&S)

08.28 Newbury - Reading General

09.10 Reading General - Reading (WR) shed.

15.50 Reading shed - Reading General

16.05 Reading General - Didcot

17.55 Didcot - Newbury

19.25 Newbury - Easteligh

20.40 Eastleigh Stn - Eastleigh loco.

 

Duty No 381 Bournemouth shed Mon-Fri for a Merchant Navy 8P 4-6-2

08.59 Bournemouth - Weymouth

13.25 Weymouth - Waterloo

19.30 Waterloo - Bournemouth West

 

Duty No 392 Bournemouth shed Mon-Fri for a West Country/Battle of Britain 7P 4-6-2.

08.25 Light loco to Bournemouth West

09.22 Bournemouth West - Waterloo

15.20 Waterloo - Weymouth

21.18 Weymouth - Bournemouth Central

 

Duty No 393 Bournemouth shed Mon-Fri for a Lord Nelson 7P 4-6-0

06.22 Bournemouth - Basingstoke

11.10 Basingstoke - Waterloo

15.30 Waterloo - Bournemouth Central

19.17 Bournemouth Central - Weymouth

Stabled Weymouth shed for Sat Duty No 400

 

Duty 416 Bournemouth shed Mon-Fri for a M7 2P 0-4-4T

05.20 Light loco to Wimborne

06.45 Wimborne - Bournemouth West

08.10 Bournemouth West - Brockenhurst

09.39 Brockenhurst - Lymington Pier

10.34 Lymington Pier - Brockenhurst 

11.04 Brockenhurst - Bournemouth Central

13.50 Light Loco to Bournemouth West

14.30 Bournemouth West - Brockenhurst (via Castlemaines Corkscrew)

16.10 Brockenhurst - Bournemouth West (via Castlemaines Corkscrew)

19.08 Bournemouth West - Brockenhurst (via Castlemaines Corkscrew)

20.56 Brockenhurst - Bournemouth West (via Castlemaines Corkscrew)

22.23 Bournemouth West to shed.

 

Duty 423 Bournemouth shed Mon-Fri for a Q class 4F 0-6-0

05.20 Light loco Bournemouth shed to Poole.

06.09 Poole to Swanage (Freight)

08.35-09.15 shunt at Swanage

10.55 Swanage - Wareham (Freight)

13.16 Wareham - Corfe Castle (Freight)

15.08 Corfe Castle - Bournemouth Central Goods (Freight)

Retire to shed 20.30

 

 

Courtesy 71000

Edited December 29, 2017 by 71000

[Tony Teague]

There is a pretty full listing of these Engine Working numbers in "Southern Region Engine Workings" by C.J. Gammell (OPC) ISBN 0-86093-510-8; it is long out of print but good copies are easily obtainable.

In addition many of the appropriate EW numbers and duties are listed within various volumes of the Irwell Press Main Line to the West series.

(However, neither of these has served to ensure that my locos carry the correct numbers - or any numbers for the most part ! - A job for the roundtuit list).

 

Tony

[Jack P]

Do you prefer the Malachite or Olive green?

 

I do like the lining on the olive green, however my time period necessitates Malachite, and I definitely prefer it. I'm also thankful that I don't have to do any coach lining!

 

Jack.

As mentioned by "Ray70B" the numbers seen on the headcode discs of Southern locos, were the Loco Duty numbers.  

 

I'm not sure if you have picked a line to model or even a specific shed. However the following may be of use, as each specific number was normally on a specific type of locomotive, baring the loco failing. In which case the number and the disc it was stuck too would probably have been transfered to the loco replacing the failure. The reason for these numbers was because the locos duty throughout the day, would mean it being manned often by more than one crew. So especially on busy Summer Saturdays, a crew waiting to relieve a train, could ensure they were relieving the right one, by the duty number stuck to one of the discs. The numbers were normally printed on paper, and stuck to the disc. But you could often see these numbers slapped on in grease, scratched on in coal dust, even sometimes upsidedown !

 

I have tried to select Duties for a range of locos that you already have models for, working from various sheds. Obviously as my records only go back to around 1954, as my layout Basingstoke is based on the era 1958-67. I have used the earliest Engine Working Notices I have, which probably had not changed much since your chosen era. 

 

Examples taken from South Western Division BR Engine Working Noticies (EWN) 1954-58. 

 

-trimmed-

 

Courtsey 71000

 

 

Thank you so much Duke, as usual your posts add more to my thread than I seem to. I haven't actually decided on a specific line, so the numbers were more of me just using up some old 7mm transfers that were about to dry out. I will see maybe if they fit with my proposed location. Which is ever changing at this stage - currently thinking of Norwood junction, but I think much like Fisherton Saurm, may end up being a mix of two real locations to make one fictional one. 

 

There is a pretty full listing of these Engine Working numbers in "Southern Region Engine Workings" by C.J. Gammell (OPC) ISBN 0-86093-510-8; it is long out of print but good copies are easily obtainable.

In addition many of the appropriate EW numbers and duties are listed within various volumes of the Irwell Press Main Line to the West series.

(However, neither of these has served to ensure that my locos carry the correct numbers - or any numbers for the most part ! - A job for the roundtuit list).

 

Tony

 

 

Hey Tony, 

 

thanks for that, just picked up a copy from ebay! I'm not sure if this will encourage me to actually use the appropriate numbers - we shall see!

 

________

 

Merry Christmas to all, and hopefully you all see the New Year in happily and safely! thank you to all that have read and commented and like my ramblings over the last little while, your presence and support is hugely appreciated!!

Edited December 29, 2017 by Jack P

[71000]

Jack,

 

I thought I had better add something to your page, as its obviously summer down your way. And no doubt you are down at the beach enjoying yourself, while we poor Northern Hemisphere folks are freezing our n*** off. Hope your having fun. So here's some bedtime reading........

 

Obviously I am aware that as you're the other side of the planet, and trying to model a specific period and a railway that's not just down the road, where you can go to check out some detail or other. Hence some of the info I have stuck on your page previously, to try and help with operational details and other possible gaps in your library of Southern info. 

 

As I used to work on what was BR(SR) in a number of jobs including Train Driver, I have a pretty good idea of how the Southern Region worked. Much of the operational methods were based on the geographical railway map, and even in my day much was still based on the methods used since Southern Railway times.

 

The Southern was in many ways even in 1947 still three railways operationally. That is ex SECR, LBSCR and LSWR. The route map especially for passenger traffic dictated this. Even BR post 1948, divided the Southern into South Eastern, Central and South Western Divisions, based on the old pre-1923 company boundaries.

 

The major depots for Passenger traffic in 1947 were, on the South Western (ex LSWR section): Nine Elms near Waterloo, which worked steam expresses to Salisbury, and Bournemouth, and also knew the Portsmouth line.

Basingstoke shed went to Waterloo, Salisbury, Portsmouth and Bournemouth.

Eastleigh shed went to Waterloo, Salisbury, Portsmouth, Brighton, Bournemouth and Weymouth.

Bournemouth shed went to Weymouth, Salisbury, Waterloo.

Salisbury shed went to Waterloo, Exeter, Bournemouth.

Exeter shed went to Salisbury, Ilfracombe, Torrington, Padstow and Plymouth by both the SR and GWR routes   

Plymouth shed did the North Devon lines, but only went as far as Exeter with London bound expresses.  

On the Central ex LBSCR lines:

Stewarts Lane (LBSCR Link) covered routes too Brighton, Portsmouth, Hastings via Hawards Heath. 

Brighton shed went to London (Victoria and London Bridge), Hastings, Portsmouth and Eastleigh. 

Norwood Junction was realistically about 75% freight work. Their passenger work included the still unelectrified secondary routes via Oxted to places like Tunbridge Wells West and Brighton via Eridge.     

On the South Eastern:

Stewarts Lane (SECR LInk) went to Hastings via Tonbridge, Dover, and Ramsgate via Dover.

Bricklayers Arms went to Ramsgate via North Kent, Dover via Canterbury.

Ramsgate shed did the reverse of Bricklayers Arms.

Dover shed did the reverse of Stewarts Lane.  

 

 

Sheds not mentioned were either less important or more freight orientated.

On the Central (ex LBSCR) lines much of the passenger work, express wise, was already provided by electric trains (from 1933). Seperate "Motormans" depots existed in all the areas where electric trains operated. In the pre-BR era "Motorman" were a grade lower than a "Steam loco" drivers, and paid slightly less as a result.

 

Each shed or motormans depot, jealously guarded the routes they covered. In each shed you had what was known as "Links". The lowest link where you normally found the youngest drivers and "restricted" (medically) drivers, basically did all the shunting jobs. Depending on the size of the sheds establishment (number of drivers), there were more or less links. The Top Link at any shed, basically had the oldest drivers with the juicest (express) jobs. The method of moving up, was all based on your "Seniority date" which was the date you first started on the railway. So it was virtually impossible for a young driver to get onto expresses, unless there was major disruption, such as Germans dropping bombs everywhere..... 

 

71000

[Jack P]

Duke,

 

WOW! I can't even explain how useful that is. You're very right about not being able to just pop down the road, and having never actually been the UK and being somewhat unfamiliar with the geography, it definitely makes things challenging. that definitely helps me with routes, however the more I learn, the more I feel i should err on the side of a layout based in not-a-real-place, but a combination, Fisherton Saurm Springs to mind, as being a plausible location with train movements and allocations assigned to fit in with said location. 

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to write that out!

 

Hopefully the new years/Christmas period was good to everyone! here's a quick update! Of course I would start a kit only for it to be announced as a new release by Bachmann this year, A Bulleid Composite

 

 

 

Currently working on the body, its an Ian Kirk kit, was relatively cheap. But my motivation for finishing it has suddenly vanished.. I wonder why! No doubt I shall come around and finish it once I've scratchbuilt some of the under-frame details, which are, lacking somewhat, and detailed the bogies. I did add bearings, and the bogies are very free-running.

 

 

This new arrival turned up also, courtesy of a member on here. She's waiting for detailing parts and then a light weathering and crew, I have already added the number above the bufferbeam, and it was bought with no 'SOUTHERN' on the tender, so that's been added also. Really growing on me, these silly spam cans! I've also ordered some of the original cabs from the SRG to change 'Blackmore Vale', to something else. I probably should've done this before I weathered it though!

 

Finally, there is something in the works here with this 8F chassis with modified valve gear, this close up actually cruelly highlights some things I need to address and trim still, the end of the motion bracket needs filing to suit, and once the body is with me, I'm under the impression it will need bending also:

 

 

What could it be..?

 

 

 

Here's some bonus footage from the club - Apologies, as the club layout is something like 25 years old and the track certainly shows it. Some of the running is also less than prototypical, The finished N class with slope sided tender is yet to be shown, however it was just a simple re-number

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Jack P

[45568]

By the by Jack, that Bulleid composite you have is totally different from anything that has been announced. you have the 59' all-door version, the earliest Bulleid coach and directly evolved from Maunsell stock. They ran in three-sets, compo and 2x brake thirds, Set # 963-969 off the top of my head. The Brake thirds are available from Phoenix,. They were originally Ian Kirk then passed to Colin Ashby.

Hope this helps,

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[71000]

Jack,

 

First, to help with the Southern Railway geography I have sent you via the RMweb "Message" service, a copy of the 1956 British Railways Southern Region map, (both mainline and suburban section maps). Which is virtually identical to the rail map in 1947. (You should have a red flag at the top of you RMweb page on the "Message" service). Just click on that to reveal Southern map spaghetti !

 

Next, the Ian Kirk kit you have shown, is NOT of a type Bachmann have or plan to introduce. From your photo it appears you have a Bulleid 59ft "shortie" 7 compartment Composite Korridor (CK). In 1945-6 the first Bulleid coach designs appeared. But these very first Bulleid vehicles utilised 57ft chassis that had been completed in 1939-40 at Lancing Carriage Works, and stored during the war. They were therefore shorter than all the following Bulleid coaches built.

 

The 59ft "shorties" consisted of only two types of vehicle. The 7 compartment Composite (as per your kit), and a Brake Second Kompartment (BSK). ALL these vehicles were marshalled into three coach sets 963-980. These three coach sets began entering service from February 1946, in Southern Malachite green, with sunshine lettering. They were the last mainline type coaches built by the Southern with individual compartment doors (apart from 4 three car "Multi-door" sets that followed, to the same basic design, but on the longer 63ft chassis, with an extra compartment each).

 

 

Above: My Ian Kirk "shortie" 3-car set 970 revealing two of the comaprtment sides. This shows the set as it was in 1959 BR SR green. And seen here on the first scenic section of my layout Basingstoke 1958-67. 

 

The Bulleid "shortie" sets were immediately put into express service on Waterloo-Basingstoke-Salisbury, and Waterloo-Bournemouth-Wemouth trains. They initially ran mixed with Maunsell sets in trains of 9-14 cars in length. They remained in front line use until 1959, when sets 963-972 were reallocated to local services on the Somerset & Dorset (Bournemouth-Bath services). Sets 973-980 were also downgraded to secondary services at this time, some going to the Central Division Oxted line services. From about 1961 some sets were disbanded and the vehicles put into the "Loose" pool. But these early Bulleid coaches were also the first to start being withdrawn, a process which began in December 1963, mainly due to their, by then, non-standard short length.

 

 

Above: The 59ft "shortie" set seen from the other side. 

 

The Southern system of set formations obviously presents a minefield of problems, when you do not have all the information on what happened to all the various types of stock. This case being a particular problem, as the "CK" Ian Kirk kit you have. Only ran in these 3-car sets until around 1961. Not sure if you can find a couple of matching Ian Kirk 59ft "shortie" BSK's to go with your CK.           

 

59ft BSK coach numbers = 2841-76

59ft CK coach numbers =  5709-26 

 

The coaches were allocated in numerical order to the sets. So BSK's 2841 and 2842 along with CK 5709 formed Set 963.

                                                                                                  BSK's 2843 and 2844 along with CK 5710 formed Set 964.

etc..etc..etc.. 

 

As far as construction goes, these Ian Kirk kits are fundamentally correct in their overall dimensions, but lack many of the small detail parts, which was intentionally done as a way of producing cheap kits. I didn't bother with the Ian Kirk bogies, and put my coaches on the Bachmann Bulleid ones, as these run much more freely. If you blow up my pictures you will also find a number of the missing details I added, such as the lower Guards footsteps on the BSK's. Also sprung corridor gangway inserts, hook and eye internal couplings and Kadee Buckeye's on the outer set ends.     

 

Lastly the 8F chassis, you obtained in this condition ? In which case it looks as though someone was trying to convert it for use in a Southern Railway Z class 0-8-0T. I think Wills used to make a kit for these locos which were intended as Marshalling Yard shunters. But some also were used as Banking engines between Exeter St. Davids and Exeter Central up the nasty 1 in 38 gradient.

 

71000  

[Jack P]

Thanks Peter! Good to know, I did hear, either musings/wishlisting/or rumours that Hornby were looking at producing these. So I guess the race is on??

 

Duke, again to the rescue! fidning out they are not the ones produced by Bachmann, I pulled mine out this morning, I need some photos of the underside if you are  able to provide some, I am confident I'll be able to make up the underframe details, but i'm not 100% sure of what they are/where they go, that and the door handle arrangement would be great!

 

I think Hattons have one of the brake coach kits in stock, but I need 2 the hunt begins.

 

I will also order some Bachmann Bogies, as I think you're right, for the price, and effort, they are a fairly decent replacement. In terms of the accuracy of the kit, I cannot comment, but it is good to know they are pretty spot on. They do build up quite quickly and easily, and I can see why they would've been very popular. The goal this year is to make the transition into brass, because then it opens up a huge scope for not only coaching stock but Locos as well (I desperately want a W Class).

 

As for the 8F chassis, I bought it as an unused, unmodified chassis, and spent the better part of my Saturday night modifying the valvegear, removed the bottom slider, created the upper guide, and removed the end part of the motion bracket, I've cut this down a little more as of this morning. While it's not perfectly accurate, it definitely looks better than a simple 8f chassis (imho). The Z Class body is on it's way from GAP and so is an order from PDK and Markits. Hopefully I'll have this one done as soon as possible!

 

Will update again when i've actually done something! Thanks for reading guys.

[Markeg]

Hi Jack,

 

Fantastic stuff.  Very enjoyable read.  Just been through the whole thread.

 

I have 10 Southern locos, mostly in BR, the T9 is 120 and the SECR C both preserved at the Bluebell Railway which I visited in 2011.

My main modelling area is LNER and some BR Eastern Region.

 

I would try and plan a trip to the UK if possible and put the Bluebell on the the plan to visit.  Well worth it.

 

Mark across the ditch (Oz)

[chris45lsw]

Thanks Peter! Good to know, I did hear, either musings/wishlisting/or rumours that Hornby were looking at producing these. So I guess the race is on??

 

Duke, again to the rescue! fidning out they are not the ones produced by Bachmann, I pulled mine out this morning, I need some photos of the underside if you are  able to provide some, I am confident I'll be able to make up the underframe details, but i'm not 100% sure of what they are/where they go, that and the door handle arrangement would be great!

 

I think Hattons have one of the brake coach kits in stock, but I need 2 the hunt begins.

 

I will also order some Bachmann Bogies, as I think you're right, for the price, and effort, they are a fairly decent replacement. In terms of the accuracy of the kit, I cannot comment, but it is good to know they are pretty spot on. They do build up quite quickly and easily, and I can see why they would've been very popular. The goal this year is to make the transition into brass, because then it opens up a huge scope for not only coaching stock but Locos as well (I desperately want a W Class).

 

As for the 8F chassis, I bought it as an unused, unmodified chassis, and spent the better part of my Saturday night modifying the valvegear, removed the bottom slider, created the upper guide, and removed the end part of the motion bracket, I've cut this down a little more as of this morning. While it's not perfectly accurate, it definitely looks better than a simple 8f chassis (imho). The Z Class body is on it's way from GAP and so is an order from PDK and Markits. Hopefully I'll have this one done as soon as possible!

 

Will update again when i've actually done something! Thanks for reading guys.

Hello Jack

 

Precision Paints are selling Kirk Bulleids for £25 - BTK ref 8876 & CK 8877.  Also Maunsell Restaurant cars if you can't wait for Hornby's!  They also sell sides only for £2.50 each and various other individual parts.

 

The underframe is basically the same as a late Maunsell one - as under Hornby's Pull-Push BCK, ie it has short battery boxes instead of the long ones on Hornby's '1926/1929' stock.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[71000]

Jack,

 

Okay, eye boggling time. Check your messages !

 

I've sent you a few scale drawings of Bulleid coaches, underframe parts and other helpful details. Drawing 18 shows the (Ian Kirk CK model) underframe and all the equiment and its exact positions.

 

As you are now muttering about shiny yellow metal (brass) you shouldn't have any problems with Bulleid coaches, as the other drawings in your message box will reveal.

 

 

Above: Closer view of "Shortie" BSK S2856S, revealing the brass handrails I used. The door handles are the original plastic moulding simply painted gold to represent the brass handles then in general use. BR had to eventually start replacing brass handles and handrails with chromed steel, when theft became a problem in the 1960's. 

 

I originally got my Ian Kirk kits through "DC Kits", as he actually lives around the corner from Ian Kirk. So he has in the past actually persuaded Ian to produce a few more kits.......

 

 

Above: The other "shortie" BSK in my 3-car Set 970 S2855S, after it had received a little chassis weathering. As seen on my Mk1 Basingstoke layout. 

 

Great, So a "Z" class will be joining your fleet. So maybe you will have to model Feltham shed. Then you can legitimately have "Z" "W" and "H16" class tank locos, along with a whole load of other types.  

 

71000