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Heljan announces the development of a Class 50


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Maybe it’s just me, but I really don’t see what is so wrong with this model. I get the impression that even if the Heljan model was the most accurate model ever made there would still be a small minority determined to find fault and write it off. Whether this is because these individuals still feel aggrieved that Heljan announced this model just to spite Little Loco Company’s offering is debatable. If this was the case, I find it strange that Heljan have progressed this far so quickly, unless O gauge models have a much shorter lead time to market than what every other manufacturer achieves! I had put my name down for a couple of class 50’s from LLC and I’m sure, on past performance they would have been great, but we are where we are and I think it’s best to stay objective about the model and stop acting like petulant children. I’m all for constructive criticism, but This feel like nit picking for the sake of having a dig at Heljan. We should at least be thankful that we aren’t N gauge modellers..... the current engineering models from Dapol still look some way off from achieving the correct face, yet interesting don’t seem to be attracting anywhere near the level of flak it’s bigger brother is! Come on guys, play fair and be more objective!

 

It's nowt to do with LLC - it's got to do with the fact that it's wrong, and yet only a handful of people can see it.....a bit like the blue / gold, black / white dress!! To be fair to Dapol, the 2mm version is a good effort considering the constraints of N Gauge....but seeing as Heljan have been working on the 50 for nearly two years, you'd think that it would be bang on. Something's obviously got mistranslated from the real thing, the drawings and the model.

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I think the fact is that the windows are angled more than the rain strip. This photo shows perfectly that the amount of yellow above the black window surrounds tapers towards the middle of the headcode box. The later black roof repaints had the black window surround all the way to the rain strip above the front windows so the difference in the angles between the windows and the rainstrip were not as noticeable.

 

6900006294_c18a3a962d_o.jpg50042  Penzance  19-07-84 by Gray Callaway, on Flickr

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There is an alternative class 50 model (kit) now available in 7mm in original and modified version. Although not RTR it is a choice of HJ or not HJ!

Presume you mean the reintroduced MM1 (JLTRT) kit which is now 700 quid and looks just like the Hornby/Heljan efforts to me!

 

Isn’t it about now someone finds an obscure Derby photo from a weird angle, in poor light and superimposes an equally distorted model photo, proving that actually any built on Wednesdays were 3.2% less droopy?!

Edited by Hal Nail
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Presume you mean the reintroduced MM1 (JLTRT) kit which is now 700 quid and looks just like the Hornby/Heljan efforts to me!

Yes I was hinting at the MM1 (JLTRT) kit but wasn't sure how this compared and also I know people's opinions are devided on previous company. Not mine as I have not had any previous issues.

Edited by HullCityB17
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Presume you mean the reintroduced MM1 (JLTRT) kit which is now 700 quid and looks just like the Hornby/Heljan efforts to me!

 

 

If it didn't sell at £500, is it going to sell at £700 just because it has a new brand name?? :scratchhead: :dontknow: :fool:

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i can't believe the level of abuse this loco is getting.

 

i have just gone back through the class 37 thread, even with the roof panels being too wide, forcing all the grilles and windows too far down the bodyside, which means none of the triple grey or large logo liveries fits on the locos correctly, and completely ignoring generally the buffer beam skirt issue apart from 1 or 2 comments, it was widely accepted as a good loco. not forgetting the so called cab window errors...get the windows on the cab front of the 50 slightly too square and all hell breaks loose.   I just don't get it

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i can't believe the level of abuse this loco is getting.

 

i have just gone back through the class 37 thread, even with the roof panels being too wide, forcing all the grilles and windows too far down the bodyside, which means none of the triple grey or large logo liveries fits on the locos correctly, and completely ignoring generally the buffer beam skirt issue apart from 1 or 2 comments, it was widely accepted as a good loco. not forgetting the so called cab window errors...get the windows on the cab front of the 50 slightly too square and all hell breaks loose. I just don't get it

It's never too late to start an uprising on the Class 37 thread mate... LOL!

 

Okay....where to start?

 

Personally I think the Class 50 discussions are on the rise given the increased interest over the release of the Dapol N gauge version also. I also think that people are quite upset because a wonderful and dedicated company like "Little Loco Company, LLC" who are known for their dedication towards accuracy had to back out because a big gun decided to announce something.

 

Knowing Steven and Nikki (designer for LLC) I knew that LLC would've had a far superior and accurate Class 50. One only has to look at Nikki's work and marvel at her passion and eye for detail.

 

So it's more like we've missed getting a better one for a company that has a track record for not taking feedback seriously. It's only since Ben Jones joined Heljan that people have a little more confidence.

 

Heljan aren't known for their ability to take feedback and work on it. I hope with Ben's arrival things will change. But I think it's a little too late for the Class 50.

 

Also being O gauge the Class 50 has more detail than other smaller scales and therefore people tend to find errors far more easily.

 

Heljan's pricing is also far higher than companies like LLC and Dapol who proved that they can make stunning models at a low price. So when you pay more you expect more.

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It's never too late to start an uprising on the Class 37 thread mate... LOL!

 

Okay....where to start?

 

Personally I think the Class 50 discussions are on the rise given the increased interest over the release of the Dapol N gauge version also. I also think that people are quite upset because a wonderful and dedicated company like "Little Loco Company, LLC" who are known for their dedication towards accuracy had to back out because a big gun decided to announce something.

 

Knowing Steven and Nikki (designer for LLC) I knew that LLC would've had a far superior and accurate Class 50. One only has to look at Nikki's work and marvel at her passion and eye for detail.

 

So it's more like we've missed getting a better one for a company that has a track record for not taking feedback seriously. It's only since Ben Jones joined Heljan that people have a little more confidence.

 

Heljan aren't known for their ability to take feedback and work on it. I hope with Ben's arrival things will change. But I think it's a little too late for the Class 50.

 

Also being O gauge the Class 50 has more detail than other smaller scales and therefore people tend to find errors far more easily.

 

Heljan's pricing is also far higher than companies like LLC and Dapol who proved that they can make stunning models at a low price. So when you pay more you expect more.

 

 

 

maybe so, but compared to what was available even 5 years ago, these models are far far better than what was available as a kit previously. the locos at least generally to the untrained eye, look like the loco they were meant to be....but i still cannot get myself willing to accept the glaring errors of the 37. i am even accepting the detail errors of the class 60 that i know of, and my class 33 ( i hope the new ones are not too much different otherwise it will stand out from the crowd) as i want a few, happy to detail it up. easier to do than building a kit which would cost the same pretty much. i will detail my peak, and hope the 56's when they come out look like a 56, but as these are still in early development hopefully any errors can be tweaked before a mold is made.

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It's never too late to start an uprising on the Class 37 thread mate... LOL!

Okay....where to start?

Personally I think the Class 50 discussions are on the rise given the increased interest over the release of the Dapol N gauge version also. I also think that people are quite upset because a wonderful and dedicated company like "Little Loco Company, LLC" who are known for their dedication towards accuracy had to back out because a big gun decided to announce something.

Knowing Steven and Nikki (designer for LLC) I knew that LLC would've had a far superior and accurate Class 50. One only has to look at Nikki's work and marvel at her passion and eye for detail.

So it's more like we've missed getting a better one for a company that has a track record for not taking feedback seriously. It's only since Ben Jones joined Heljan that people have a little more confidence.

Heljan aren't known for their ability to take feedback and work on it. I hope with Ben's arrival things will change. But I think it's a little too late for the Class 50.

Also being O gauge the Class 50 has more detail than other smaller scales and therefore people tend to find errors far more easily.

Heljan's pricing is also far higher than companies like LLC and Dapol who proved that they can make stunning models at a low price. So when you pay more you expect more.

It still amazes me that the notion Heljan just announced a class 50 just to rain on LLC’s parade still abounds! Sorry, but I just think that is plain stupidity. Every other model manufacturer seems to have on average at least a three year lead time in getting a roduct to market, and in a lot of cases, or example Bachmann and Dapol it can be considerably longer! Why you think Heljan are different, amazes me! The likelihood is Heljan we’re developing a class 50 when LLC announced their intention, and in my view, announcing theirs at that point was the honourable thing to do. Do people really think it would have been better to let LLC continue paying development costs and then Heljan announce their model? Of course not! Yes, I’m sure LLC would have made a lovely product, of which I had placed an order for two from them. At least LLC were spared additional costs and were able to move onto the class 22 (again, which I’ve pre-ordered two locos from). As to the point about price - are Heljan and LLC really that far apart? If you take Heljan’s last release, the mighty Western - I pre-ordered two and paid £475 for them, which I think is pretty good value? I do like this forum, but I do think there are a few who like to spit their dummies out and bash whoever the latest ‘whipping boy’ manufacturer is! Come on guys, be constructive and fair and stop getting so negative! This model really isn’t as bad as a small vociferous minority are making it out to be!
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i can't believe the level of abuse this loco is getting.

 

i have just gone back through the class 37 thread, even with the roof panels being too wide, forcing all the grilles and windows too far down the bodyside, which means none of the triple grey or large logo liveries fits on the locos correctly, and completely ignoring generally the buffer beam skirt issue apart from 1 or 2 comments, it was widely accepted as a good loco. not forgetting the so called cab window errors...get the windows on the cab front of the 50 slightly too square and all hell breaks loose.   I just don't get it

I totally agree with you! I think the level of criticism is more about punishing Heljan for daring to announce a rival model to LLC (when the likelihood was it was already in development anyway!) It seems there are a growing number of people who DO think the model resembles a class 50 - including the normally (constructively critical,) Rail Express Modeller in their November issue!
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I've personally got no problems with Heljan and like them... the LLC version doesn't exist so is not worthy of comment imo.

 

I think the criticisms of the Heljan model are fair based on the images I've seen so far.... and its not a cheap purchase. It is the closest RTR model of a 50 that I've seen so in that respect Heljan should be congratulated. Doesn't mean it's perfect and think there are improvements to be made.

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According to Rail Express mag the Heljan 50 front end has been revised. It’s the best we’re going to get unless you want to go down the kit route, MM1 are way too expensive and the brass kits are junk plus hard work most ending up in the cupboard half built. I good for at least one.

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I have been observing this thread for a while now and have worried a little about some of the posts' content. It is only fair that the record be set straight before any real damage is done to either company. Instead of posting here I have posted it in LLCs section, the direct link for the post is here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135191-class-50/?p=3338403

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I totally agree with you! I think the level of criticism is more about punishing Heljan for daring to announce a rival model to LLC (when the likelihood was it was already in development anyway!)

 

Alternatively, it can be a reflection that the O market is maturing as it has grown to the point where Heljan is no longer the only game in town.

 

Dapol have very successfully entered the market, and there are now multiple sources of RTR O in the smaller company category.

 

As such, it is no longer a case of "this is what is made, and at this price, like it or leave O".

 

Heljan are charging a premium price compared to their competition, and as such the people being asked to pay that premium are expecting a better product which Heljan frequently isn't delivering.

 

I will say (with a guess) that Heljan is aware of the issue, hence the hiring of Ben Jones and the hope on RMweb that he will bring more of a focus on accuracy to Heljan's development process.

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It still amazes me that the notion Heljan just announced a class 50 just to rain on LLC’s parade still abounds! Sorry, but I just think that is plain stupidity. Every other model manufacturer seems to have on average at least a three year lead time in getting a roduct to market, and in a lot of cases, or example Bachmann and Dapol it can be considerably longer! Why you think Heljan are different, amazes me! The likelihood is Heljan we’re developing a class 50 when LLC announced their intention, and in my view, announcing theirs at that point was the honourable thing to do. Do people really think it would have been better to let LLC continue paying development costs and then Heljan announce their model? Of course not! Yes, I’m sure LLC would have made a lovely product, of which I had placed an order for two from them. At least LLC were spared additional costs and were able to move onto the class 22 (again, which I’ve pre-ordered two locos from). As to the point about price - are Heljan and LLC really that far apart? If you take Heljan’s last release, the mighty Western - I pre-ordered two and paid £475 for them, which I think is pretty good value? I do like this forum, but I do think there are a few who like to spit their dummies out and bash whoever the latest ‘whipping boy’ manufacturer is! Come on guys, be constructive and fair and stop getting so negative! This model really isn’t as bad as a small vociferous minority are making it out to be!

I hope you understand that my post was in reply to a fellow member offering and explanation as to what I personally feel may be upsetting people. And it's not necessarily my actual opinion on the matter.

 

My only opinion being that I felt LLC could've done a better job and I wish LLC didn't face so many issues that they eventually did. The notion of one manufacturer announcing something just to stop another is something I personally don't believe in. I was simply re-posting what I've seen so far in this thread.

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Question is:

Does the nose of the loco, need to go down at both sides.

or does the middle of the nose need to go up. 

If down, you can work on it.

if up, then someone with a 3d printer is in for some good times. I know it still makes the windows wrong, but ha ho.

Plenty of guys on here, rip locos to bits (and change things straight out of the box.

Yes i Know we should not have to .so lets have a comp on the best looking class 50. (This is a light hearted comment ,by the way. before some one goes of on a rant.)

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maybe so, but compared to what was available even 5 years ago, these models are far far better than what was available as a kit previously. the locos at least generally to the untrained eye, look like the loco they were meant to be....but i still cannot get myself willing to accept the glaring errors of the 37. i am even accepting the detail errors of the class 60 that i know of, and my class 33 ( i hope the new ones are not too much different otherwise it will stand out from the crowd) as i want a few, happy to detail it up. easier to do than building a kit which would cost the same pretty much. i will detail my peak, and hope the 56's when they come out look like a 56, but as these are still in early development hopefully any errors can be tweaked before a mold is made.

What annoys me about the whole shooting match is the fact that we know they (HJ) can do it, look at the Peak, for example, it's superb!

 

What I will say about the 50 is that it is the closest I've seen in model form from any manufacturer to date.

Edited by Gary H
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Lets hope that if  an unrefurbished version ever comes to see the light of day, satisfactory changes are made!

Am currently pleased that an unrefurbished version is all I want :declare:

I am buying a blue one from Tower and hope to get a body through Howes so i can unrebuild it, i did it with an RJH one as a commission some years ago. Ironically my favorite is Repulse in late NSE but i dont model that period :sad_mini2: :sad_mini2: :sad_mini2:

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I thought the big new thing a few years ago was scanning the prototype - so this sort of argument couldn't happen- what happened to that idea?

Hornby supposedly scanned a VEP, and look at the abortion that was. Bogies back to front, cab front completely wrong, no windows in the compartment corridor portion, motor in the passenger saloon instead of the guards van....scanning is no guarantee of a good product

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Hornby supposedly scanned a VEP, and look at the abortion that was. Bogies back to front, cab front completely wrong, no windows in the compartment corridor portion, motor in the passenger saloon instead of the guards van....scanning is no guarantee of a good product

Lol it worked well then!

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