RMweb Premium Dave Hunt Posted May 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2020 I use 18 or 20 thou steel plate for footplates that look as though they could have rigidity problems such as my Schenectady mogul. I got it as offcuts from an etching company I dealt with. Dave 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted May 23, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) I have cut the footplate to the works drawing but even in S7 the frames will be to narrow leaving a gap showing between the splashers. Perhaps I should have thought of this before I started but I will find a way around this later. Another problem I have is I won't be putting inside valve gear in which leaves a large gap between the frames. I could do with putting in the motion plate / boiler support and dummy value gear. So having decided it needs something between the frames I went and found a thin sheet of Tufnol. Because i am using spilt axle pickups I need something that isn't going to short out. I cut a piece of Tufnol to fit between the frames along with a couple of thin bits of nickel. I made up a sandwich of 2 parts Tufnol and 1 part nickel and glued the together with epoxy leaving a gap between the nickel. This will have to be drilled and shaped to fit the curve of the boiler when I get around to doing the bodywork. Edited May 23, 2020 by airnimal 9 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Could you tell us about the gearbox you are using? It looks unusual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted May 23, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2020 Guy, it is a A.B.C mini gearbox. I was going to used a Sid Stubbs mini gearbox but the water tank balance pipe got in the way of the drive shaft. So I asked A.B.C to provide me with a small self contained one. I am not sure if it is part of there range or a one off. I have cut the motion plate to roughly the final shape and marked the cutouts needed. 8 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 It is absolutely breathtaking work - so clean and elegant how do you manage it? just how much burnishing do you have to do between soldering up and taking these photographs, be honest now! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted May 23, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2020 Lacathedrale, the chassis was made years ago when I was still working and I had access to a range of equipment including a small industrial shoot blaster. So I was able to place all the parts in this before putting it through large ultrasonic tank. I don't miss working one bit but I do miss have several large and small lathes and milling machines at my disposal. Plus my boss was unusual in the fact he was happy for his employees to do work for themselves in works time. For the last 10 years I worked in the scientific industry. Our firm made and developed mass spectrometers which gave me new skills and techniques. Several of my colleagues were watch makers by trade whose standard of workmanship was absolutely top notch so I had to raise my game accordingly. The footplate you see here was cut from a new sheet of nickel and marked out on one side with a scribe so the other side just needed a light rub with a fine grade of foamed backed abrasive cloth. I have started to make the bufferbeams from 10 thou nickel from one piece which is scribed and bent to shape after drilling for the buffers and coupling. This one will be scrapped because I have made a mess of the rivets adding one in the wrong place. I am never afraid to scrap something that I don't think comes up to standard I try to aim for. 8 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted May 24, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 24, 2020 After messing up the rivets on the last buffer beam I have cut out a couple of replacements. They were marked out and drilled for the buffers with a ever increasing diameters of drills and broaches, de-burring as I went along both front and back. I have heavily scored for the fold lines before bending to shape. The second one doesn't have holes for the buffers because they had dumb buffers on the rear almost from new. Bar the works photo I have never seen any loco in service with rear sprung buffers. 4 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted May 24, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) I folded the last side by clamping it down to the bench with a section of brass to hold it stable then used a straight edge to fold it into a rectangle. I held it all together with sprung clips before soldering along the back edge with a gas torch. This let the solder run inside leaving very little cleaning up to do. I left the last side over long and filed back the excess. Lacathedrale asked about cleaning up. After a quick rub with abrasive cloth it was given a clean with Viakal and Stardrops Pink Stuff. Any solder is hardly seen because the part I solderd will be underneath where it wouldn't be seen. There was so little cleaning needed that it only took me a couple of minutes. Edited May 24, 2020 by airnimal 8 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post airnimal Posted May 25, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2020 Behind the bufferbeam there is a strengthening plate made from U section channel. So I looked in my selection of metal stock and found some brass rectangular tube from K & S. So a piece was cut to size and filed to shape before tinning on the back. This was soldered on to the back of the bufferbeam using my Graskop resistance soldering iron. Everything about the footplate is to be renewed with new metal. 16 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Argos Posted May 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 25, 2020 Superb Mike, really inspirational stuff! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted May 25, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 25, 2020 Angus, thanks for that but you may be a bit premature with praise. I am flying by the seat of my pants not really sure what I am doing or how it is going to turn out. I fitted both bufferbeams and just started to put the footplate valances on. The first one has gone as seen here before any cleaning up has taken place. I clamped the valance to the footplate with 6 crocodile clips and cut small bits of solder and dotted them along the inside edge before heating with a small gas torch. I started to heat from the centre taking it easy so not to warp the footplate. 12 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post airnimal Posted May 26, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted May 26, 2020 The ends of the bufferbeams have been filled in and the corners rounded off. I am not happy with one of these as I have filed a bit to much off one and the it doesn't quite match the other corners. I have removed both the front and back plates from the old saddle tank to use as templates for new parts. The front of this has the rivets filed off leaving holes to use a drilling jig. One of the old splashes has been placed on the footplate At this stage it may be going back in the box because I am not enjoying rebuilding this loco. I have come to the conclusion that metal work is not for me. When I make a mistake when working with plastic I just make another. It doesn't bother me if I have to make the same part tenfold before I get thinks right. But in metal it makes me angry and moody. Not sure why but it's not a nice reaction from someone who prides himself on never getting angry. Even my better half says why do it if you don't enjoy it. 10 2 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dave Hunt Posted May 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 26, 2020 It's a shame you're not enjoying it Mike because it is excellent work. Funny how we perceive things differently isn't it - I much prefer working with metal than plastic because it isn't so easily damaged and solder can be undone whereas once plastic is welded together that's it. Dave 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Like others here I have been following your very detailed description on this build and it is certainly testament to your craftsmanship. I can relate to your sentiments if it doesn't give you pleasure, and I'm certain you aren't the only one who may become frustrated whilst working with metal, I hope it doesn't put you off and maybe, just maybe you will revisit the model sometime in the future, not for our sakes but for your own and enjoy it once more. What has been built to date is something to be very proud of and I am certain I echo others likes/craftmanship whilst you have been kind enough to share it with us. Take care and stay safe. G 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted May 26, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2020 5 hours ago, airnimal said: The ends of the bufferbeams have been filled in and the corners rounded off. I am not happy with one of these as I have filed a bit to much off one and the it doesn't quite match the other corners. As the prototype’s were wooden, and the loco used in places where knocks and scrapes were common, I wouldn’t worry about it, but would present it as the carefully modelled result of a rough shunt... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 8 hours ago, Dave Hunt said: It's a shame you're not enjoying it Mike because it is excellent work. Dave Absolutely agree with Dave - its stunning work, but at the end of the day you need to enjoy your hobbies! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post airnimal Posted May 26, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted May 26, 2020 Gentleman, many thanks for you positive reaction to my tales of misery. I think a lot of my troubles not like building in metal is because I have always like the humble goods wagon since I was just a kid. There was always lots of freight trains on my local line with a small goods yard with wagons to go climbing over as a source of naughty enjoyment. Life seem so simple then. I was not to bothered with engines as much. So when building I haven't got as much enthusiasm for engines as with wagons. So I don't do much research or think things through. Take this loco for instance, I cut the footplate to the works drawing without taking into consideration regarding the frames width being under scale. If I had thought it through I could have adjusted the footplate to match the frame width. Anway i I think the best course of action is to just do a bit at a time and put it away when I get fed up with it. Before I put it away I have made the first of the window frames from brass tube. A brass tube that matched the drawing was put in the vice and a couple of rings cut oversized with the fret saw. The hole in the rear cab plate had the hole reamed out with a tapered large broach to accept the brass rings. The brass rings were soldered on the outer face before cleaning up leaving just a trace of solder on them. They were then put in cab plate with flux and heated gently with a gas torch. I cut out a hole in a bit of scrap tufnol that is 12 thou thick and placed it over the ring and filed it flat. I used this spacing ring both front and rear to file to size. A brass wheel was used in the mini drill to clean what little cleaning there was needed. 12 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted May 26, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2020 1 hour ago, airnimal said: Anway i I think the best course of action is to just do a bit at a time and put it away when I get fed up with it. Given that you do need a loco to shunt the wagons, and your preference for building wagons, the above strikes me as just about the sanest piece of thinking I have seen on line in many years! And those spectacle plates look good. 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 12 hours ago, airnimal said: just do a bit at a time and put it away when I get fed up with it Probably the best approach I think. The techniques that you post certainly help even with something as simple as using a piece of Tufnol placed over the spectacle plate is worth using, thank you for posting your method. The simple but effective methods sometimes escape those of us who maybe have a similar attitude toward scratch or even kit building, it is something I will now employ. Enjoy ! G 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) I always enjoy your posts Mike. Whatever your personal preference at the bench might be, you’re a first class engineer in my book. Everything you produce - be it plastic or metal - is incredibly crisp. On several occasions I’ve had something in front of me that I’ve made and knowing it may not be quite right thought to myself, ‘If I was Mike I’d throw it away and make another’. So that’s what I do!! Edited May 27, 2020 by Tricky Typo 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted May 27, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2020 Tricky, I didn't know my stupid ways would rub off on other people. You will make me feel guilty for posting. But as you say if it doesn't satisfy, it is never going to get better over time. I always regret it later if I don't something about at the time. I have a case in point here with the tank front. I used the old tank as a template to make another. I soldered the old tank front on to a new piece of metal and drilled / spotted through for new rivets. I cut around and parted the parts and cleaned the edges before riveting with my G.W. Models riveting tool. Unfortunately I messed up a couple of rivets. This was caused by my hamfisted workmanship and not the excellent G.W.Models riveting tool. Most people wouldn't bother but I can't live with this so I will make another one later, but not today. 4 7 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted May 27, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2020 When I cut a new tank front I will hopefully have a new tank to go with it. I bent a new tank using my bending clamps held in the vice and using wooden blocks to push down the sides. I left the sides over long and will cut back later to the size required. The tank very nearly fits with just a small amount of adjustment needed. 6 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted May 27, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) I have cut the tank sides down. I am quite pleased with the fit of the front to the tank that hopefully will not need to much filler / solder to achieve a good joint. I will use small bore brass tube where the tank turns under because there was a join here. Edited May 27, 2020 by airnimal 13 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium airnimal Posted May 28, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 28, 2020 After soldering the front tank plate in and cleaning up I have come to the conclusion this loco is never going to get finished. I have mess up the rivets yet again and I should have scrapped this tank front again but I have used it with regret. I should have taken my own advice and binned it first thing instead of wasting hours on it. I think I better order some more wagon wheels. 4 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 While I greatly admire Mike's skill and perseverance – and agree with him that when a model ceases to be fun, put it aside for a while. Problem is when you're as easily distracted as I am you end up with a shelf full of half completed models slowly disappearing under the dust of ages. I would show you a picture but it's too embarrassing ! 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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