S7 scratch building

[Simond]

Great news Mike, lovely to hear.

 

Some folks are old at 50, some are full of life at 90.  It’s my aim to be one of the latter…

 

 

[NeilHB]

That’s wonderful news Mike, glad that all went well. 
 

The new wagon looks good so far to me. 

[Caley Jim]

The 72 yo is obviously a grumpy old git whose glass is almost empty, never mind half empty!  The 80yo has the right attitude!  'That's that out the way, now let's get on with life!'  Me?  Stuff how much is in the glass, I want to know how much is left in the bottle!  

 

Onwards and upwards, Mike.

 

Jim

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

The 72 yo is obviously a grumpy old git whose glass is almost empty, never mind half empty! 

 

He was probably just plain scared...

 

15 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

Me?  Stuff how much is in the glass, I want to know how much is left in the bottle!  

 

... and how many bottles are in the cellar?

[Regularity]

That’s great news, Mike, and a good way to wish in the New Year!

[Western Star]

On 29/12/2021 at 19:59, airnimal said:

I have glued the end stanchions on and left them to dry for a couple of hours. Then I filed them to shape with a large flat file before finishing them with some abrasive paper on a flat surface.

How did you get the taper to match across all four stanchions?

 

regards, Graham

[airnimal]

I am still about but lying very low at present.  I am still feel on top of the world and life is getting back to normal or as normal in the present circumstances will allow. I have been walking between 2 or 3 miles about 4 days a week and I have even been to the pub to have drinks with my cycling chums. The grumpy old man I mentioned before being aggressive when I went for my stitches out complained that when he drank water which everybody had to do, that it caused him pain. The nurse told him not to drink any more until he had a scan. He came and sat opposite me and immediately drank a full  jug of water !  How can you feel sorry for someone who ignored the advice he was given by the people who are there to help him. I am now waiting to hear from my surgeon and was given a date in March which seemed a long time to wait so I phoned and asked could it be brought forward.  I explained to his secretary that we wanted to go to Australia to see our new granddaughter as well as the others of course and she gave me a cancellation for mid February which is better. 

 

I have tried to do some modelling but the mojo has gone walkabouts. I hear what people say I should plan my layout or other related subjects but unfortunately I am bankrupt of any ideas. I am hoping  this is only temporary. 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by airnimal

[Mol_PMB]

I'm glad to hear that you are getting out and about, walking and to the pub. Like you, I find my modelling mojo comes and goes (as does my enthusiasm for other things).

There's no point forcing yourself to do any hobby unless you're getting some satisfaction or enjoyment from it.

The sun's come out (well it has here in Urmston) so why not get out for some fresh air instead?

I'll look forward to your wagon activities again when you're feeling more like it.

Mol

[airnimal]

I ventured into the workshop this morning for the first time for awhile and tidy up the endless books and tools that have been littering the workbench.  I find a tidy workspace always make for better mindset. 

So returning to the last wagon I have decided to have a go at making a drilling jig out of a thin scrap of nickel. I marked out and drilled the holes for the first row of holes which made me look at the drawings and photographs where I found out the the second row doesn't have as many holes. At least making this first jig which isn't perfect it did open my eyes to the fact that these corner plates had different patterns of holes in different batches of wagon depending on the date they were made. 

I will make another jig but to a better standard, but it does show promise. 

 

I still feel very healthy and continue to feel confident with my medical condition. The biggest issue is just waiting for things to happen regarding going to Australia to see our daughter and family.  My daughter is getting very angry with the governor of Western Australia who keeps changing the rules on a regular basis.  

[Western Star]

8 hours ago, airnimal said:

So returning to the last wagon I have decided to have a go at making a drilling jig out of a thin scrap of nickel.

Mike,  a neat approach.  How does the jig shown work for the rivets/bolts securing the corner plate to the end sheeting?  And for the other corner of the side sheeting?

 

Put another way, how many jigs to complete the corner plates of this wagon?

 

regards, Graham

Edited January 21, 2022 by Western Star

[airnimal]

Graham,  I have made another attempt at a drilling jig that was a bit better quality than the first. This also includes a second row of holes for these rivets.  Because the corner plates are 9" wide on both sides the jig will just turned round as per photographs.  I haven't tried using it yet because I have been busy with family matters today.  Hopefully this if it works it may spur me on a bit and get my mojo back. 

[airnimal]

Well after making a new jig this morning I drilled the first corner plate. Immediately I noticed that one hole in the second row was on join between the 2 planks which sent alarm bells ringing.  Back to the drawings and photographs and sure enough I had only glanced at the drawings before drilling the second set of holes in the jig. This is the story of my life assuming thinks are there when careful observations will reveal the truth.  I will put this down having other thinks in my subconscious to deal with other than railway modelling.

I have soldered a bit of wire in the offending hole so I don't forget in the future and make the same mistake again.  I will plug this middle hole with a bit of plastic rod and clean it up and hopefully it won't be noticed.  These .6mm rivets are very tiny and ping of into outer space when I pick them up with tweezers.  12 BA nuts are bad at flying off and never seen again but these rivets are even worse. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by airnimal

[airnimal]

I have decided that this Dia 2 wagon isn't  going to progress any further. With constantly been put  down on hard surfaces the corners have become rounded and worn. I sometimes place a soft mat under plastic models to prevent this sort of think happening but when I get sidelined for various reasons I get sloppy in my habits and forget. 

So not having much mojo I got out a set of Slaters wheels to trim the excessive webbing between the spokes. This set me thinking that I haven't photographed a before and after shot with F/S and S7 wheels in place in which to compare them with. So before your very eyes I have do just that. 

Once cleaned of excessive webbing I then chemically blacken them with Birchwood  Super Black.

 

Other than this little bit of tinkering with I haven't done anything much at all.  All I seem to do is wait for things to happen like waiting to see the surgeon with regards if I am clear to go to Australia to see the family there. That's another wait to see if the premier of Western  Australia will allow anybody in yet.  All this waiting just means we are all getting older without much progress. And the older we get i see friends around me all going to that engine shed in the sky. I feel very frustrated with all what going on with the world at present and my escape in my modelling world is not happening.  

 

So this afternoon I will go and have a beer with my cycling friends and tomorrow I am going to a retirement do for an ex work colleague who is going after nearly 40 years in the same job. 

[airnimal]

Still a couple of weeks away from seeing the surgeon. I am desperate to go out on my bike but without  the clearance I could do more harm than good so I will just have to be patience. 

So with little motivation to do much and the weather pouring lots of liquid from above so preventing a long walk without looking like a trawlerman.

 

 

Trying to get my mojo back I looked at my own W-irons with regards springing them. I have used them with just lettering gravity take it course without any springing and they do work that way. I have had several rakes of wagons run successful around layouts and test tracks without any problems.  

But the gentleman who did the drawing for me always intended that they be sprung with a phosphor bronze wire soldered in. I didn't like that the wire was to be soldered in permanently making cleaning and painting difficult. So I came up with the idea to solder a small piece of brass tube to the bottom of the W-iron to locate the phosphor bronze wire that could be removable for painting.  

I have a couple of different ways of bending the wire to get the best result and I prefer the one bent into a Z shape although you will be able to see the wire. Once the wire is blackened it will be less obvious .

[Caley Jim]

1 hour ago, airnimal said:

I have a couple of different ways of bending the wire to get the best result and I prefer the one bent into a Z shape....... 

The Z shape will always work best as the lower arm will remain roughly horizontal and so press the axle straight down, rather than working through an arc, in which case it is pressing the bearing slightly against the side of the hornguide.

 

Jim 

[airnimal]

I had a blood test this morning before I talk to the surgeon next week. I am hoping he says I can travel overseas and get back on my bike. I also went to the dentist as well for the first time in nearly 3 years. Is this the start of the return of normal life ? 

 

I looked at the GWR van I made a mess of awhile ago and wondered if I should have another go at it. 

There are a couple of drawings in Len Tavender's railway equipment drawings of these vans. One have a wooden solebar and one has a steel underframe. The steel underframe always has an appeal to me and I have a couple of wagons made with them. 

Going to my box of Evergreen plastic section I discovered the that there wasn't a complete match for the size I required. I therefore had to make up the size I needed from different parts. 

So a flat piece of 20 X 188 thou had a couple of pieces of angle glued top and bottom to form the right size channel. On the back the 2 parts of the angle did not meet in the middle, so a infill of 20 X 60 was used before another piece of 20 thou thicken the whole lot up. 

Now I have the basic frame I cannot at this stage glue a floor on top because the outside frame of the van sits on top of this channel section. I will have to make the body first and glue the floor higher up in the body. This makes this van slightly more difficult to make than a normal wooden underframe. 

[airnimal]

I'm  totally unsatisfied with my efforts with this attempt at a steel frame.  My library doesn't run to many GWR books and my knowledge even less. Once I posted the first pictures last night I was horrified to look at the thickness on the edge of the angle. Then I measured the thickness to discover it was close to 60 thou. Clearly this is not correct so I made another attempt using 10 thou in place of the 20 thou used previously. This reduced the thickness considerably and was better visually but I am still unhappy with my progress.  I then remembered I still had a moulded plastic spruce for a Coopercraft kit in my bits box which I could compare it with. This when placed along side of my efforts reinforced my opinion that my is undernourished.  I looked at my stock of Evergreen section and I don't have the necessary angle available,  so until I acquire some of the larger size I will have to abandoned this for the time being. I think in this  case my lack of knowledge of the subject and my desire to restore my mojo got the better of me.  A case of fools rush in !

[Compound2632]

Could the Coopercraft components be adapted for the purpose?

[airnimal]

I have been pointed in the direction of some photographs on another web site and some more information.  I keep referring to steel frames when perhaps I should call them iron frames. I don't believe that the Coopercraft mouldings would be suitable to adapt to what I require.  Looking at the photographs of a suitable van and looking at my last effort I don't think it is too far out. I could do with knowing the dimension of the part of iron frame which projects out so I could measure against my own effort. 

[magmouse]

There's a drawing in Atkins, et al, showing the design of the first version of the Dean/Churchward brake gear. This gives dimension of the frame channels (sole bars and headstocks) as 9" deep, 3" wide. I seem to remember the material is 3/8" thick, but I am at work and don't have the book with me.

 

NB though this drawing is likely for the later steel frames, since DC brake gear came in around 1902. The dimensions for iron frames might be a bit different.

 

I hope that's useful -

 

Nick.

 

Update: the drawing is on page 71 of the 1986 combined edition of 'A History of GWR Wagons' by A. G. Atkins, W. Beard, D. J. Hyde and R. Tourret. I remembered the details correctly - the solebars are shown as 9" x 3" x 3/8". The drawing doesn't specify the headstock dimensions, but it seems most likely they would be the same.

Edited February 11, 2022 by magmouse

[airnimal]

Nick, thank you for that information which is very useful because I do not have the Atkins book. I have measured my attempt and it works out at 72 thou wide. According to my conversion chart 3" works out at 68.90 thou which is close enough for me. Incidentally the Coopercraft mouldings work out to about 82 thou wide. So with this new information to me I will carry on and do a little bit more.

[Schooner]

1 hour ago, airnimal said:

So with this new information to me I will carry on and do a little bit more.

Excellent news! Your "totally unsatisfied" is a mere mortal's "pretty damn close, I'm dead chuffed with that!". A pleasure and and inspiration to catch up with your progress all round  

 

All the best,

 

Schooner

[magmouse]

7 hours ago, airnimal said:

Nick, thank you for that information which is very useful because I do not have the Atkins book.

 

Glad to have helped. I've checked the book and updated my post to confirm I had remembered the dimensions correctly.

 

As others have said, this thread is a real inspiration. I'm currently building from kits - a Slaters, ex-Coopercraft, 7mm scale GWR 5-plank is currently on the workbench, hence having the underframe dimensions in my head! I have plans for scratchbuilt 1- and 3-plank GWR opens, and an outside framed van, very much motivated by your work here. So thank you!

 

Also - as you note, the flange on the solebar of the Slaters/Coopercraft kits is too wide, making the solebars look rather heavy. This is a shame given the general quality of the mouldings in these kits, and there seems to be no good reason for it. It's also not an easy fix, I think.

[wagonman]

10 hours ago, airnimal said:

Nick, thank you for that information which is very useful because I do not have the Atkins book. I have measured my attempt and it works out at 72 thou wide. According to my conversion chart 3" works out at 68.90 thou which is close enough for me. Incidentally the Coopercraft mouldings work out to about 82 thou wide. So with this new information to me I will carry on and do a little bit more.

 

  

Mike. Before you go too far, it's my understanding (from Tavender and elsewhere) that the vans with that style of framing were the early builds –on a wooden underframe. The iron framed wagons had the diagonals the other way round. Sorreee!

 

 

Richard

[wagonman]

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