Weathering 1930s GWR

[Chris Dark]

Hi all,

 

I'm looking for advice on the amount of weathering for stock around this date. I weathered my BR stock after looking at others and also images from the net so that was relatively easy to follow but images from the 30s are a lot harder.

 

From my understanding the railways in this era were cleaner but dirt is inevatable, I guess the question I'm asking is how much dirt. For me weathering really brings a loco to life so would like to get this right as much as I can.

 

Thanks

Edited September 6, 2017 by Chris Dark

[Edwardian]

Some quite dirty! 

 

The best advice, as ever, must be to work from photographs of the prototype.

 

Try albums like The Great Western in the 1930s to get a feel.  Also, there are some colour pictures reproduced in the Great Days of the Great Western 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The Big Four in Colour 1935 - 50 is likewise invaluable. Splendid 1930s photos of Soylld Castle (100 A1), Knight for a Bath (4014),  Notcleanat Hall (possibly 5974) and plentiful illustration that the GWR coach livery was brown and any shade of 'cream' you like, including brown... The dirt of the steam railway was highly indiscrimate...

[Ed-farms]

Just to make you aware, most photographs from this era will probably show pristine locomotives. Don't be fooled by this, remember in the 1930's camera's and film in particular was expensive so not many people had them. A lot of photographs probably were pre planned with the railways involved, chances are most engines were as filthy as the majority of 1960's photogrpahs we see, I can imagine only certain engines were cleaned before pulling top link trains.

[melmerby]

In "The GWR 150 Glorious Years" the is a picture of a "Duke" 3256 with at least one clerestory in tow at Reading in 1939 on a distinctively third tier train and it is remarkably clean.

There is some soiling on the top of the boiler but otherwise everything else is visibly clean but definitely not pristine.

 

Also at Reading in 1937 are 4020 & 4082 on an express and they are clean enough to see all the lining and insignia.

 

Shrewsbury in 1938 has 4013 but this is dirty enough to obscure some of the lining but all the brightwork is clean

2937 at Snow Hill in 1939 is also fairly clean condition again, but not pristine.

These are all colour photos.

 

A B&W photo of a King at Rowington in 1933 shows it is positively sparkling but this is top link.

 

From these and other photos in the book I would say thay the GWR generally kept it's passenger locos clean but they are definitely showing signs of being out and about on the road.

Locos on goods trains however are a different matter!

 

Keith

Edited September 8, 2017 by melmerby

[Chris Dark]

Thank you for all your replies.

 

Since the post I have enlarged my book collection, thanks for the suggestions. I agree with the comments regarding photos, some images are clearly for promotional purposes and the engines are spotless, the images of good trains working however seem to be as dirty as the 50s/60s.

 

One bit of information I did gain is how the GWR lost many of it's Dean goods locos for the war effort, and had them replaced by 3fs's. A good exscuse to run something different   

[melmerby]

Thank you for all your replies.

 

 

 

One bit of information I did gain is how the GWR lost many of it's Dean goods locos for the war effort, and had them replaced by 3fs's. A good exscuse to run something different 

The LMS loaned both 2Fs & 3Fs plus a couple of diesel shunters as well as other 8Fs apart from the 84XX series, LNER loaned J25s & the SR H15, S15, N15X, I3 & B4.

 

Some of these locos spent only a short time on the GWR but some spent the whole war period (some of the J25s even got their new LNER numbers whilst on the GWR)

 

The USA 2-8-0s numbered 175 but were only on the GWR for a year or so

The GWR also had 24 USA 0-6-0Ts for a few months in 1944.

89 WD 2-8-0s with 7XXXX numbering arrived after the war on loan and stayed on the GWR after nationalisation a further 82 which were never used were sent to other regions.

 

Info from RCTS part 12

 

The GWR had a bigger percentage increase in goods traffic during the war than the other companies hence the number of locos loaned to them.

 

Keith

Edited September 8, 2017 by melmerby

[brianusa]

Weathering, or just plain dirt was inevitable but depending on the shed and work force, varied a lot.  Pictures of Victorian and Edwardian locos and trains show a greater respect for appearance and image with usually shining examples.  It wasn't confined only to premier locos as most tank engines shone as well.  Probably one of the reasons was cheap labour and pride; both of which are missing from subsequent eras.  

 

Brian.

[tanatvalley]

There are 2 photographs taken at Llanymynech of the Llanfyllin branch train consisting of a 58XX, 0-4-2T and a B set. They are about 2-3 years apart in the mid 1930s. In the earlier photograph the coaches are pristine, roll forward and they are decidedly dirty to the extent that the cream is almost obscured.

[Nearholmer]

There's a difference between 'working grubby' and 'pre-death neglect', though, so I'd be wary of following examples from the mid to late sixties.

 

K

[Chris Dark]

Thanks for the feedback. I will attempt to weather one of my Halls so hopefully I will do it justice. I will post the results for anyone interested.

[DCB]

I read somewhere that the GWR ordered that the polishing of the tank tops on Panniers in particular was to cease following an accident where someone slipped.  The GW never had that sudden "Cleaning Locomotives is a luxury we can no longer afford," moment and standards just slowly slipped. An intelligent application of dirt where it would not easily be seen from platform level is probably appropriate, rather than LMS/ LNER levels of neglect. Dull paintwork livened up with an oily rag rather than high gloss seems to be the norm.  Summer services which took cleaners away from cleaning and on to firing duties would also have impacted on cleanliness.

Actual rust would have been rare apart from parts that got really hot fireboxes, ashpans and the like not hidden by boiler cladding.

GW locos were repaired on a mileage basis, LMS and LNER patched up when they wouldn't go any further.   GW locos were painted during overhauls, rather than being painted after overhaul as per LMS.

There are pictures of immaculate ex GWR locos at Swindon for scrapping in the 1950s

[Edwardian]

I read somewhere that the GWR ordered that the polishing of the tank tops on Panniers in particular was to cease following an accident where someone slipped.  The GW never had that sudden "Cleaning Locomotives is a luxury we can no longer afford," moment and standards just slowly slipped. An intelligent application of dirt where it would not easily be seen from platform level is probably appropriate, rather than LMS/ LNER levels of neglect. Dull paintwork livened up with an oily rag rather than high gloss seems to be the norm.  Summer services which took cleaners away from cleaning and on to firing duties would also have impacted on cleanliness.

Actual rust would have been rare apart from parts that got really hot fireboxes, ashpans and the like not hidden by boiler cladding.

GW locos were repaired on a mileage basis, LMS and LNER patched up when they wouldn't go any further.   GW locos were painted during overhauls, rather than being painted after overhaul as per LMS.

There are pictures of immaculate ex GWR locos at Swindon for scrapping in the 1950s

 

Eerily similar to the "stop lining the tops of the belpaire fireboxes because somebody slipped" accident, often mentioned, possibly never verified.

[Miss Prism]

I think the pragmatic cessation of lining on firebox tops was because it didn't last long owing to the heat, and not because 'someone slipped'. What was viewable from platform level was also a consideration, as David mentions.

[dpgibbons]

In his book on loco weathering, Ian Shackleton makes a convincing case for giving even well-maintained locos a fair bit of dirtying-up. Grime from steam, ash, rainspray and brake dust builds quite quickly, whilst cleaning would generally focus on painted areas and not the smokebox, underframes or cab roof. He also notes that for safety reasons footplates were swept and not cleaned. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by dpgibbons

[Miss Prism]

 

1673, one of the big-tanked and large-wheeled 1661 class, towards the end of its life in the late 20s/early 30s. Unusually for ageing goods tanks of that era, it is very 'clean and shiny', including buffed up boiler and tank fittings. The colour of the original insignia has been dimmed considerably from repeated dark oily cleanings.

 

 

 

A youthful passenger tank 4589 in prime mechanical condition, not long out of the shops after cab shutters and bunker fender have been fitted. The colour difference between the black, green, brass and steel parts of the loco is considerably lessened by the thin but uniform layer of dark brown grime, and the insignia are almost indiscernible.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Miss Prism

[Rugd1022]

GWR Journal has the occasional pre-nationalisation shot in colour. A little later than your requested period but issue 102 has a colour shot from c.1946 on the rear cover showing a fairly grubby set of choc & cream stock.