Rails Limited - Exclusive Edition Class Q1

[Steamport Southport]

It had definitely gone back to being C1 when it was at Railfest in 2004.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brsteam/h608148DE#h608148de

 

 

 

Jason

[G-BOAF]

Looking a pictures of the loco today at the NRM, it is clear to see the welded up holes from the front numberplate. What interests me is whether those holes were re-drilled and re-welded every time the loco moved from Southern to BR identity...? Or are they screwed plugs rather than welds? I remember seeing a picture, either in Bluebell News or online, of vinals being applied to the tender to convert C1 into 33001 for a charter/gala.

 

Still no response on my smokebox door query from earlier - why that choice of rimmed tooling? As such it does not portray the loco in its preserved condition.

[hmrspaul]

It had definitely gone back to being C1 when it was at Railfest in 2004.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brsteam/h608148DE#h608148de

 

 

 

Jason

This is the correct link  http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/srq10-6-0

 

Paul

[toboldlygo]

I was wondering the same as I want a couple of the later variants with lubricator, as 33032 had one from new, so should be fitted.

 

But there hasn't been any photographs of them in the wild yet, even though some places apparently have them in stock. They are still showing Hornby's artwork which doesn't have a lubricator..

 

 

I would rather let someone who wants 33001 have the Ltd edition as mine will be getting renumbered and weathered anyway.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Renumbering and weathering limited edition's is my specialty - I help make them that much rarer 

[G-BOAF]

So it seems like the standard release is the same as 33001, including lubricator and older style smokebox door.

[JSpencer]

I have two of the original Q1 releases.

 

33002 in early crest, no (I guess) wash out plugs (2 big holes on the lower boiler sides above the firebox) and no lubricator, but with the smoke box door re-enforcing ring.

33009 in late crest, with lubricator, washout plugs and no re-enforcing ring on the smoke box door.

 

My south eastern finecast kit of 33001 (picture earlier in this thread) has the plugs but no lubricator (cannot remember whether or not the kit was supplied with one and if it was, then why I did not fit it, it was 20+ years ago and my 3rd kit). It has the later non re-enforced door and the firebox painted in rust colour between the frames (I took some 50 photos of the loco on the Bluebell at the time, in those days the camera's were not digital). It lacks the fine side panelling both on the boiler casing and the tender which the Hornby one has.

 

I have been privileged to have traveled behind 33001. Powerful beast with a lot of soot.

 

Edit: Well I took the plunge and ordered one. I'll have 33001 in both early and late crests.

Edited September 21, 2017 by JSpencer

[JSpencer]

Looking a pictures of the loco today at the NRM, it is clear to see the welded up holes from the front numberplate. What interests me is whether those holes were re-drilled and re-welded every time the loco moved from Southern to BR identity...? Or are they screwed plugs rather than welds? I remember seeing a picture, either in Bluebell News or online, of vinals being applied to the tender to convert C1 into 33001 for a charter/gala.

 

Still no response on my smokebox door query from earlier - why that choice of rimmed tooling? As such it does not portray the loco in its preserved condition.

 

Looking at Rails photos and buyers who have posted images, it seems that the piston valves at the front are pointing down instead of up.

 

Edit: In fact all the current production Q1s seem to have the valves pointing down instead of up.

Edited September 21, 2017 by JSpencer

[Chris Chewter]

I've just hurriedly checked my Rails Q1, and yes, the cylinders are indeed upside down!  

 

 

For comparison, Hornby's factory got it right for the first release R2355!

 

[JSpencer]

Thanks, when it get mine, I,lll see if they are easy to correct.

[JSpencer]

Got the Q1. Tender has had some minor re-tooling so chip now goes there and with space defined for a speaker. The new 4 pin plug replaces old drawbar twin contacts.

 

This loco is ready for a TTS sound chip.

 

Next job, how to correct the valves so they point up...

[Ian Abel]

Got the Q1. Tender has had some minor re-tooling so chip now goes there and with space defined for a speaker. The new 4 pin plug replaces old drawbar twin contacts.

 

This loco is ready for a TTS sound chip.

 

Next job, how to correct the valves so they point up...

Nice, wish I'd known that before ordering a sugar-cube speaker though <sigh>, anyone have any idea what size speaker fits so I can get ahead of the game?

 

Still not seen mine

Only complaint about Rails is that their shipping details (international signed-for) are haphazard at best. My air-smoothed TTS MN they posted the tracking details in the "comments", the Q1 "nothing" for tracking details

It shipped supposedly on 13th. September, but could be languishing on their warehouse floor for all I can find out!

 

Other vendors I use have a specific spot for the tracking details in the orders and always provide it, AND usually I'd have the item after 14 days?!?!?!

Often within about 5-6 if they use DHL (as Hattons do) for about the same shipping cost as I'm paying for the Q1, for a loco!!

 

Oh well, I know it'll be nice when I finally get it.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Ian Abel

[JSpencer]

It will the same speaker as the MN one (24 or 28mm from memory).

 

Mine went via international with 2 coaches so via parcel force. Ordered about 5 days after yours. Arrived today in France.

[JSpencer]

Ok, here are some pics of the new Rails 33001 and of C1 herself in steam during the early 90s. Also shown is how to correct the position of the piston valves so that they now point up!

 

C1 herself in steam. That day I took many photos of her as I intended to build the South Eastern Finecast kit. I also rode behind her. These when she operated on the Bluebell. Such beautiful and powerful machine.

 

Left, South Eastern Finecast kit 33001 in early BR black inspired by the Bluebell visit. Early BR was chosen as much of my stock was early BR back then. Middle 33009 from an original Hornby batch in, hum weather late BR black. This model is identical to the rails one except for drawbar, chip placement (in the loco itself on these older batches) and smokebox door. It also has overhead warning flashes. Right, the new Hornby/Rails 33001.

 

Top, the 20+ year old Finecast 33001, middle the 10+ year old Hornby 33009, Bottom the new 33001.

 

Left Finecast 33001 saying hello to Hornby 33001.

 

Inside the new Hornby Q1, on original batches the chip holder was here.

 

Now the bit you were all waiting for, removing the wrong way up piston valves. You do need to remove the body. Just place a thin screwdriver from above in the middle of the part. It pops off easily.

 

Use a pair of tweezers to pop it back on again the correct way up. No glue needed. Looks better now n'est pas?

 

If I can do it in poor lighting and failing close range eyesight, I,m sure you can too!

[GNR Dave]

Beautiful and powerful ?

 

I'll give you powerful   

[Big James]

I've just ordered myself one. Fantastic looking engine. I remember watching her on a VHS my dad purchased for me as a kid.

 

Big james.

[JSpencer]

Two picks tonight of 33001 pulling some Bluebell stock (PMV van, Fingalll, Eagle and 320):

 

 

[JSpencer]

Beautiful and powerful ?

 

I'll give you powerful   

 

All locomotives are beautiful, just some more than others!

[Ian Abel]

It will the same speaker as the MN one (24 or 28mm from memory).

 

Mine went via international with 2 coaches so via parcel force. Ordered about 5 days after yours. Arrived today in France.

Indeed 28mm it is.

 

Here are some additional notes and observations for those about to venture into the new Q1s.

 

I planned to add sound using a Soundtraxx Econami UK steam - pause for the inevitable groans - and acquired the decoder and a 28mm Soundtraxx speaker to match.

 

Fragile/lightly glued parts:

Nothing actually BROKE during the process of both installing the sound/speaker OR removing the keeper to correct the driver back-to-backs, HOWEVER, heavy breathing apparently was enough for one of the sand pipes to drop off, and the lightest brush against the tender frame resulted in one ladder dropping off completely and one hanging on for dear life.

Painstakingly rectified with some stupid super glue, either my hands are too large or the loco is too small, jury still out 

 

Piston Valves correction:

Following the advice given above I ALMOST removed the loco body. Turns out my "assembler" used the glue destined for the above mentioned parts to very successfully glue the pipe shown to the chassis locating hole, I think it's supposed to be a press fit - suffice to say I wasn't going to be able to completely separate the body from chassis without breaking it, so carefully left them partly separated.

Fortunately, the piston valves can be removed carefully with a pair of tweezers, and in all probability can be done in situ. Replacement as stated above with tweezers.

 

Speaker installation  using 8-pin existing socket:

The tender does come apart as described in the instructions, however, you feel like you're going to break something until it finally separates. Replacing the tender, watch out for the sides that have to gently be eased over a couple of tiny plastic locating stubs, at first I wondered why the darn thing wouldn't go back on, closer inspection reveals some microscopic plastic protrusions designed to p!ss you off and also apparently keep the tender skirt sides in the correct position

Whilst the loco is supposedly "set up" for what would appear to be a TTS-version given it has a speaker mounting in the tender AND the document provided mentions it

 

the socket hasn't been provided with long enough wires to allow the speaker to be installed AND subsequently run the wires around or over the weight/speaker housing to re-install the socket on its mount successfully!

 

I drilled two small holes at the edge of the mounting location (duly cleaned etc. etc. so there is no sharp edge to catch the wires) and was only THEN able to have the socket mountable again. I'm sure some might say "...just hard wire it already..." but I preferred to use a socket/plug option.

 

NEM/Kadee rear coupling:

Once again the standard (NOT that I'm expecting either Hornby or Bachmann to actually bother implementing one) is imperfect, in this instance I had to shim with a piece of plasticard between the NEM housing and the frame to get a Kadee #20 at the correct height.

 

Hope some of this information proves useful to others...

 

End result, with real coal and Roxey headcode discs added - not weathered as I am not confident I can do that justice, yet;

Edited October 2, 2017 by Ian Abel

[BR60103]

Ian

In ER I mention that I found a Bachman Nem Kadee-style that was slimmer and longer to use at the front and not be blocked by the dangly bits. This was done when the Q1 was new; I haven't seen the part since.

[JSpencer]

Indeed 28mm it is.

 

Here are some additional notes and observations for those about to venture into the new Q1s.

 

I planned to add sound using a Soundtraxx Econami UK steam - pause for the inevitable groans - and acquired the decoder and a 28mm Soundtraxx speaker to match.

 

Fragile/lightly glued parts:

Nothing actually BROKE during the process of both installing the sound/speaker OR removing the keeper to correct the driver back-to-backs, HOWEVER, heavy breathing apparently was enough for one of the sand pipes to drop off, and the lightest brush against the tender frame resulted in one ladder dropping off completely and one hanging on for dear life.

Painstakingly rectified with some stupid super glue, either my hands are too large or the loco is too small, jury still out 

 

Piston Valves correction:

Following the advice given above I ALMOST removed the loco body. Turns out my "assembler" used the glue destined for the above mentioned parts to very successfully glue the pipe shown to the chassis locating hole, I think it's supposed to be a press fit - suffice to say I wasn't going to be able to completely separate the body from chassis without breaking it, so carefully left them partly separated.

GluedPipe-1.jpg

Fortunately, the piston valves can be removed carefully with a pair of tweezers, and in all probability can be done in situ. Replacement as stated above with tweezers.

 

Speaker installation  using 8-pin existing socket:

The tender does come apart as described in the instructions, however, you feel like you're going to break something until it finally separates. Replacing the tender, watch out for the sides that have to gently be eased over a couple of tiny plastic locating stubs, at first I wondered why the darn thing wouldn't go back on, closer inspection reveals some microscopic plastic protrusions designed to p!ss you off and also apparently keep the tender skirt sides in the correct position

Whilst the loco is supposedly "set up" for what would appear to be a TTS-version given it has a speaker mounting in the tender AND the document provided mentions it

Instructions-1.jpg

 

the socket hasn't been provided with long enough wires to allow the speaker to be installed AND subsequently run the wires around or over the weight/speaker housing to re-install the socket on its mount successfully!

PreInstall-2.jpg

 

I drilled two small holes at the edge of the mounting location (duly cleaned etc. etc. so there is no sharp edge to catch the wires) and was only THEN able to have the socket mountable again. I'm sure some might say "...just hard wire it already..." but I preferred to use a socket/plug option.

PostInstall-2.jpg

 

NEM/Kadee rear coupling:

Once again the standard (NOT that I'm expecting either Hornby or Bachmann to actually bother implementing one) is imperfect, in this instance I had to shim with a piece of plasticard between the NEM housing and the frame to get a Kadee #20 at the correct height.

 

Hope some of this information proves useful to others...

 

End result, with real coal and Roxey headcode discs added - not weathered as I am not confident I can do that justice, yet;

33001-1.jpg

 

In your last pic, the mechanical lubricator crank has an issue (easy to fix). The top front part should be dangling down and not up.

 

Easy to fix, undo the nut on the front wheel where the rear part of the crank is set. Move the parts to the correct position. Tighten the nut.

[PenrithBeacon]

Now why would we forget ? I have been tempted yet again,Sandra. A well-aired anecdote about the Q1 relates to its unveiling to assembled worthies and fellow locomotive engineers which referred to its unusual austere appearance ( it was wartime ) and some mysterious "holes" in its structure.One of OVB's colleagues is reported to have asked.." Oliver,where do you put the key ? " Strange coincidence that we now have another Oliver in the frame Cheers.Good to hear from you again. Ian.

This has also been attributed to Stanier. I doubt if one of OVB's assistants would have made the quip if he valued his career Edited October 3, 2017 by PenrithBeacon

[Ian Abel]

In your last pic, the mechanical lubricator crank has an issue (easy to fix). The top front part should be dangling down and not up.

 

Easy to fix, undo the nut on the front wheel where the rear part of the crank is set. Move the parts to the correct position. Tighten the nut.

Indeed <sigh> pointed out by someone else - I THOUGHT something looked amiss when I was running it in on Sunday. Somehow I didn't see what it was, I now do!

Should have noticed as I have two others with lubricators - this one must've been assembled incorrectly, so out with the tools it is!

[Ian Hargrave]

This has also been attributed to Stanier. I doubt if one of OVB's assistants would have made the quip if he valued his career

 

To be clear,the word "colleague" was not intended to be attributed to one of OVS'  "assistants" but as I posted to "fellow locomotive engineers"

[G-BOAF]

Sorry, I take back my point about the smokebox door. It seems that 33001 received the later type of door quite late on in its life, after fitting of lubricator and boiler washout plugs.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/69692273@N03/30328392371/

The BR Hornby model is therefore correct in this regard, but incorrect for the loco in its preserved form...!

[JSpencer]

Sorry, I take back my point about the smokebox door. It seems that 33001 received the later type of door quite late on in its life, after fitting of lubricator and boiler washout plugs.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/69692273@N03/30328392371/

The BR Hornby model is therefore correct in this regard, but incorrect for the loco in its preserved form...!

An easy enough oversight. I studied lots of photos of Q1s and did eventually find one in late BR, mud washout plugs, lubricator but early door (though not 33001).

 

However C1 by locomotion is definitely wrong somewhere. I have not found any picks of any Q1 running in SR days neither with the wash nor lubricators, so either it's the wrong door as preserved or wrong for SR days. I guess you could fill the holes up and remove the lubricator for SR.