RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 29, 2017 As I have a Graham Farish Black 5 "45110" and a Dapol Britannia "70013 Oliver Cromwell", I want to try and recreate the Fifteen Guinea Special coaching stock that ran behind these loco's. Does anyone have the consist and possibly the coach numbers as well? Also, I noticed 44871 and 44781 had the top feed on top of the boiler was in different places. Was one of them unique in this or did it depend on build, boiler swop etc? Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Can't help much on the coaching stock but it was a mixture of maroon and blue / grey. There should be enough photos on the web showing the make up of the train. The 3A boiler of the Black Fives came in many varieties and one was the position of the top feed. With most it was just ahead of the dome and fed into trays inside the boiler which effectively allowed any air to separate out. Later, from early 1947, the internal arrangements were changed allowing the top feed to be moved forwards on to the barrel's first ring, so taking the relatively cold ans wet feed away from the dome and regulator, where the need was for hot, dry steam. The preserved Stephenson's Link engine 4767 has this arrangement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 29, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 29, 2017 Can't help much on the coaching stock but it was a mixture of maroon and blue / grey. There should be enough photos on the web showing the make up of the train. The 3A boiler of the Black Fives came in many varieties and one was the position of the top feed. With most it was just ahead of the dome and fed into trays inside the boiler which effectively allowed any air to separate out. Later, from early 1947, the internal arrangements were changed allowing the top feed to be moved forwards on to the barrel's first ring, so taking the relatively cold ans wet feed away from the dome and regulator, where the need was for hot, dry steam. The preserved Stephenson's Link engine 4767 has this arrangement. Thanks for the information regarding the top feed on Black 5's. I'll have to check the photograph of a particular engine for it's position before renumbering any model. Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Yes Generally the two types stayed with the engine as built. Crewe, Derby and Horwich changed boilers type for type, but St Rollox had a habit of putting any boiler on any engine, producing some very odd combinations! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 29, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 29, 2017 I seem to remember there was a article in Hornby magazine many moons ago with the consist and numbers of the coaching stock used on this train. I had a look through my back issues but can't find anything. Anyone know which issue it was in? Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Two of the carriages are preserved at the East Lancs Rly. AFAIK these are the only ones remaining. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 29, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 29, 2017 Two of the carriages are preserved at the East Lancs Rly. AFAIK these are the only ones remaining. Ray. Any clues as to what they are? Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Yep.... M4933 & M4937. Apparently they carry commemorative plaques to say that they were used on 1T57 11/8/68. Cheers, Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 29, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 29, 2017 Yep.... M4933 & M4937. Apparently they carry commemorative plaques to say that they were used on 1T57 11/8/68. Cheers, Ray. Well, that's two, just need the rest Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted September 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 29, 2017 google search shows https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/15-guinea-special.16912/ BSO E9223 MaroonTSO M4995 Blue/GreyRK M80037 Blue/GreyTSO M4933 Blue/GreyTSO M4943 MaroonTSO E4497 Blue/GreyTSO M4937 Blue/GreyRK M80028 Blue/GreyTSO E4288 Blue/GreyBSO E9253 Maroon mentions the Hornby/Model Rail magazine articles as being around july/august 2008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 30, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 30, 2017 google search shows https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/15-guinea-special.16912/ BSO E9223 Maroon TSO M4995 Blue/Grey RK M80037 Blue/Grey TSO M4933 Blue/Grey TSO M4943 Maroon TSO E4497 Blue/Grey TSO M4937 Blue/Grey RK M80028 Blue/Grey TSO E4288 Blue/Grey BSO E9253 Maroon mentions the Hornby/Model Rail magazine articles as being around july/august 2008 Thank you for posting that but as I'm modelling N gauge, what could I use for the RK's as I don't think they are available in N (or OO gauge). Everything else I can source. Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Thank you for posting that but as I'm modelling N gauge, what could I use for the RK's as I don't think they are available in N (or OO gauge). Everything else I can source. Julian Sprott The RKB is similar at a distance, Electra Railway Graphics do replacement RKB sides for the older type Farish Mk1s. Also Farish don't do BSO's, the closest visually is the BCK. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 30, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 30, 2017 The RKB is similar at a distance, Electra Railway Graphics do replacement RKB sides for the older type Farish Mk1s. Also Farish don't do BSO's, the closest visually is the BCK. If they pass the 3ft rule, the BCK will do lol. Julian Sprott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted September 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2017 If you're not too fussed on absolute detail, a couple of RBs could maybe be an easier alternative? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Note that the information published in magazines is sometimes not quite as accurate as it might be. Having done lots of digging a while back this is what I believe the formation was (bogie type in brackets at the end): BSO Maroon - with black ends it appears - E9223 (leading from Liverpool to Manchester Victoria and from Carlisle to Manchester Victoria) (BR) TSO Blue/grey M4995 (CW) RK Blue/grey M80037 (B5, red stripe, ‘Kitchen’) TSO blue/grey M4933 (CW) TSO blue/grey M4943 (CW) TSO maroon E4497 (BR) TSO blue/grey M4937 (CW) RK blue/grey M80028 (B5, no red stripe, ‘Kitchen Car’) TSO blue/grey E4288 (BR) BSO maroon with maroon ends E9253 (BR) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 google search shows https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/15-guinea-special.16912/ BSO E9223 Maroon TSO M4995 Blue/Grey RK M80037 Blue/Grey TSO M4933 Blue/Grey TSO M4943 Maroon TSO E4497 Blue/Grey TSO M4937 Blue/Grey RK M80028 Blue/Grey TSO E4288 Blue/Grey BSO E9253 Maroon mentions the Hornby/Model Rail magazine articles as being around july/august 2008 This appears to have been what was quoted in Model Rail. It failed to take account of the fact that the train reversed, so the liveries taken from photos/film of the train between Manchester and Carlisle didn't match up with the numbers, which had been listed on departure from Liverpool. The way to tell is to look at the bogies on the TSOs. The maroon one in the middle has BR bogies and the blue/grey ones around it have CW. E4497 had BR bogies and the others in the middle were from the 49XX batch built new with CW bogies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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