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Tref

The Wagon Works

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I probably really shouldn't do this, I have failed to complete any challenges yet, but hey, it is a year away - plenty of time... And it is really really small!

 

I've always wanted to model a shed on the inside, rather than outside. I have also wanted to have a go at maybe gauge 1, just a wagon.

So the idea is a wagon in a shed. The only justification I can see for this is as part of a preservation thing. I am thinking of a 16 ton mineral wagon, being repaired. I seem to recall many of these had the bottom of the sides patched, so perhaps in the process of such a patch being repaired or replaced. If I can find the figures, I would love to combine it with one of those arc-welder Led circuit thingies, for once being able to see what is being welded, rather than just the bright light in the building.

But I guess the first question is will a gauge 1 wagon fit in a cake box? I'm sure it will... Famous last words!

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At 10mm to the foot, your MCV will be a shade under 7 3/4 inches over buffers. A bit tight for an 8" square plinth, maybe 'O'* will be a better bet?

 

* I'm pursuing similar, but in 'N'!

Edited by Dave47549

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So it fits then! There are also the options of 1/32 rather than 10mm, and putting it on the diagonal

 

Do I gain extra brownie points by mentioning that I also like the idea of trying out the figure painting techniques recently in BRM,but no way could I apply them in 4mm?!

 

I'll look out for your thread Dave, Thanks.

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How hard can it be to find an etched brass kit of a 16 ton mineral wagon in 1/32 scale? I can see I am going to have to join G1MRA or what ever it is before I even start!

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I still can't find an etched brass kit! In 10mm, yes, there is an etch, and then find castings, wheels, etc. Cheapest is an RTR, but a moulded body... This will be awkward to cut away, and surely overly thick (and I don't get to learn how to put etched brass together). Scratch building crossed my mind, but then just cutting out all the fiddly bits would take an age... I must be missing something somewhere, surely this is the most common wagon in the world (or it was in its day) and I can't find a kit?!

I think for the moment I may have to start with the building, and then find something to put in it.

Obviously it needs the shed itself, a welder, given the plan, a bench and vice, and perhaps a second person preparing another patch, grinding the edges.

The first thing to hit me is that G1 is not as big as I think it is - I thought I could make a model vice, but in fact, it is still tiny! No matter, I will give it a go.

Edited by Tref

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Ok, sorry for the rough sketching, but hopefully it gives an idea of what I have in mind:

post-833-0-57600700-1508408014_thumb.jpg

A wiggly tin building, roller shutter door, one man welding a patch in, another preparing another patch panel. I might have to rethink the clamping of the panel having the edge prep ground on being held in a workmate - I suspect it wouldn't be big enough. Showing my ignorance here of what the process would be - any information gratefully received!

 

I'd like it to look like a rough kind of shed, but nevertheless luxury compared to the conditions I have seen railway restoration work carried out in.

I started sketching an arc welder, but then decided putting the bottle in for MIG would make it more interesting, hence the trolley isn't well balanced - hopefully I have this out of the way on the sketch, and I can get it right on the model!

Still haven't found wagon, but was hoping to go and find some angle for the bench and she'd tomorrow... That plan may be thwarted by health issues, but here's hoping. If not perhaps I can start on the vice or angle grinder or other little bits.

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This is proving to be a real eye-openner to me of how dominant 4mm is. After the struggles to find a wagon kit (still no joy) I thought I would start with the building. Something to look like wiggly tin or box section to clad it, some RSJ section to support it, and a couple of figures I could convert to be welders or grinders. I was fortunate to visit a two-modelshop-town (how many of those are there?!) but I walked out of both empty handed. Plasticard for 4mm, but nothing even remotely that I could use. I think I am going to have to think about the size of the RSJs, because again, nothing in the 8-10mm range that I thought would be about right. (how big would the columns be on a portal frame about 6m wide?). People... Well it turns out all the military stuff that I thought was 1:32 is actually 1:35! I may have to settle for a short welder. Stood precariously on an up-turned milk-crate to weld the high bits sounds like an interesting model, but I couldn't see anything on the boxes that looked vaguely like it could be converted. So much for supporting my "local" modelshop.

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Do you think? I am open to suggestions here, and agree, two bottles, no big box, and no mains lead for oxy-acetylene.

 

Back in the day, I would agree, the choice is oxy-acetylene, or stick welding. Whilst a mineral wagon side is thin, I wouldn't have thought when new, that thin (anyone any idea?) - I would have thought at least 1/8", so open to either being used.

Now though, MIG seems to be used almost universally used. It can weld the thin stuff, but can weld thicker cheaply, without the clean-up needed for stick.

I really don't get on with it, and would rather use stick or gas myself, but I only weld once in a blue moon (and only for hobby purposes... Did weld up the front of a class 45 once though!), so really by observation than proper knowledge. All suggestions and comment welcome, especially given that this is reckoned on being a present day preservation shed, rather than back in the day.

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It might sound a bit extreme, but could you scratch build the wagon? As it doesn't have to move, a representative version of the axlebox and springs should be enough. The rest of the wagon should be fairly straightforward.

Stu

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Thanks guys.

 

Yes, I have considered scratchbuilding, and have started looking for drawings, and read the entirety of the huuuuge thread on 16 ton mineral wagons (which gives me the sources for the drawings). It is still an option, and because of what I want to do with it, is probably ahead of butchering an rtr wagon (which would probably be the cheapest option). watch this space (probably for the entire year!).

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Still no physical progress, but now only a fortnight until I will hopefully be able to acquire some materials. In the meantime, I have had plenty of time for further planning. Latest brainwave, at the risk of cluttering it, I would like to include a representation of my favourite artist, Terence Cuneo. I feel it would the kind of scene he would have captured, so like the idea of him sat in the corner, recording the work in oil. Of course, that also means I have to include his mouse, and so add a little entertainment for people trying to find it. The obvious would be pretending to be a piece of cake, in a cake box that was destined to be one of the volunteer worker's lunch! How big is a 1/32nd mouse?!

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First tangible progress:post-833-0-95652600-1510776909_thumb.jpg

Ok, I haven't actually made anything yet, but I figured if the plans are good enough for 5" gauge, then it should look ok scaled down to 1/32.

Already it has confirmed it will fit... Just!

I also received my Warley catalogue today, and whilst I have only flicked through I noted an article on modelling in cardboard. I guess if I am scratch building there is no need to work in brass - I'll have to save learning to solder brass for another day. It is just the time to hack out brass sheet, so this could be an option.

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Many thanks. One I had seen in my trawling, but as you say, currently unavailable. I must admit I baulked a bit at paying over £100 for my first kit to experiment with soldering too. Ok, I know with a guitar the argument is that many a newbie is put off by buying a cheap, and close to unplayable guitar, so perhaps the same is true of brass kits, a cheap one may be really difficult to assemble... I think perhaps it's unavailability is doing me a favour - no point in debating it!

There is also the fact I plan on hacking lumps out of it... It will be next to valueless once I have finished!

 

I did make another realisation though... So long as I make the panel to be repaired the one with the number on it, I won't have to worry about numbering!!

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The cost is simply a reflection in the increase in size: the etched will be in thicker material, but the area of the sheet increases by the square of the increase in scale. For castings, the relationship is cubic.

IIRC, the kit is fairly basic.

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Or you could use 10 thou plasticard for the basic body shell (too thin for use on a layout, where 20 thou would give you the required robustness) but ideal here.

 

I already have a small 12” x 8.5” diorama for displaying a wagon: I could cut it down, I suppose, but then it would hardly be longer than the length over buffers.

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Indeed, there is only millimetres to spare, one reason for it having to be 1/32, not 10mm:1ft. The latter would, just, fit, but leave nothing for the building surrounding it I wish to model.

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I finally have some materials! Moreover,I was able to support a local model shop for their purchase. Not local to me, but the shop in Cromer had some "O" gauge wiggly tin. The corrugator may be too small, I will measure when I get home, but it looks close enough to me - certainly saves what I was considering, "roll your own" wiggly tin!

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Another failure...

 

Today I obtained a cakebox.

 

post-833-0-01171400-1511112717_thumb.jpg

 

Of course, I couldn't just measure it in the shop, so it wasn't until I was home that I found it was too small. Serves six? Pah!

Further research required.

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Being too small doesn't matter. The rules say it has to fit in an 8x8x6 box, not be a tight fit. There's already a nice display window in that box.

 

I really must go in the Co-op, or Aldi where similar cakes are cheaper, and buy one soon!

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The rooflights indeed appealed to me, but to fit a building to house a G1 mineral wagon, I need all the space I can get!

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So the Slaters plasticard I picked up measures approximately 300mm x 190mm. Perfect! There are 5 crinkles per 10mm - which I guess scales at around 2 1/2" spacing - a little below the 3" I believe it should be (standard wiggly tin rather than "Big Six"). Close enough for me. I have also recently acquired an airbrush, so I am hoping I can reproduce panel joints by judicious use of that rather than cutting it into individual sheets.

 

So allowing it to fit in the box vertically, I have 150mm tops... which scales at approximately 15'. Is that enough? how high does the doorway need to be? I have a feeling thee may not be enough room for the roller-shutter door I want to include. Also - I wanted the track as hard up to the wall as would be realistic - how far does it have to be away - are there any rules for that? I would assume (dangerous!) just normal loading gauge, but that would be from the internal frame supporting the structure...

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Do you ever go down one particular alley, and loose all sense of time? I did... Anyway, I eventually modelled, and 3d-printed, my required mineral wagon:

20200201_152142.jpg.b938f63ffe85eee8888b2581d0ac0d15.jpg

So all I have to do now is finish everything else to go around it. How long have I got to go? What do you mean the competition has finished? It's barely been two years!

Oh well... should you want a 3d printed mineral wagon for anything, you can find all the files you need on Thingiverse here:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4139212

 

Tref.

 

 

 

 

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