Peco Bullhead Points: in the flesh

[Gilbert]

That's certainly my recollection

[Chamby]

29 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

Are the new points not the same footprint  as the code 75 none BH? In which case the templates will be fine?

 

Yes.

[Harlequin]

52 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Somewhere I think I've seen mention that they are the same, which caused grumblings from some (as the slips are notoriously small radius) and there was a hope they might have been more generously proportioned, along the pattern of the US style Code 83 range.

 

Unfortunately, it's impossible to increase the radius of the slips within the constraints of the Streamline geometry, namely 2 inches between parallel tracks and 12° angle at the centre line between parallel tracks. (That's true both for inner slips and outer slips.)

 

To address the slips issue they will have to use a new geometry - and that's a huge step because it's no good just doing the slips, you need matching turnouts and crossings in the same geometry to be able to make sensible formations.

 

Edit: The radius of the Large turnout is limited to 45.76inches by the same constraints. They hinted about doing "extra large" points in the Spring Report and that would also need a new geometry.

 

I've been thinking a lot about this and made a suggestion to Peco.

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Harlequin

[Guest WM183]

I hope these come out soonish. I need a load of them!

[Chamby]

24 minutes ago, WM183 said:

I hope these come out soonish. I need a load of them!

 

We have a word for it in the West Country, which is where PECO happen to be based:  Dreckly.   It misleadingly sounds like directly, but means it will happen when it happens and we’re not going to get stressed about it.  It comes with the more laid back lifestyle in these parts, which does have many upsides as well, though upcountry folk seem to struggle with the concept.

 

Yes, for now there’s good number of us waiting patiently...

[Zunnan]

Some are waiting so patiently we've taken to new projects to bide the time, and no longer need any bullhead at all.

[Guest WM183]

I shall strive to wait with West Country style patience! Given how nice the large radius points are, I am sure the med radius ones will be worth the wait anyways.

 

PS. In my native Appalachian region of Ohio, we also say "D'recktly." Weird that!

[RBAGE]

Because these things didn't get here directly, I decided to hand build a diamond crossing. As a consequence, I spent two day in the shed this week, looking for a short circuit on my layout. So, I've ripped out the diamond and I'll wait, with a gap in my layout, and hope they get here, dreckly.

When fault finding with a meter, I did have to keep reminding myself that these were unifrog and not electrofrog. 

 

I think they were doing tests on samples of the diamond in August, last year and reported production would start soon. Sorry, dreckly.

So, does anyone have any idea?

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, Chamby said:

It misleadingly sounds like directly, but means it will happen when it happens and we’re not going to get stressed about it.

 

More likely it means the marketing people have been dragged into the toolroom kicking and screaming and told to make the tools themselves if they are so damn clever.

 

Martin.

[Gilbert]

On 08/10/2019 at 13:39, Gilbert said:

I am well on with a layout using the new track and incorporating an inglenook as the main operation. I have used a variety of current Bachmann and Hornby locos with no problems at all.

Chris

 

I am now about to contradict myself.

I have recently bought 2 Hornby Class 31s and I have discovered today that on both my BH shunting layouts the green one frequently shorts on the crossings. B2Bs appear to be 14.5mm but the wheels do seem to have significant side play. I'm not happy as I have already installed a sound decoder and fitted all the details....I'll see what the blue one does at some point.

Any suggestions - even a Bachmann Class 40 runs happily through all the pointwork?

[Harlequin]

7 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

I am now about to contradict myself.

I have recently bought 2 Hornby Class 31s and I have discovered today that on both my BH shunting layouts the green one frequently shorts on the crossings. B2Bs appear to be 14.5mm but the wheels do seem to have significant side play. I'm not happy as I have already installed a sound decoder and fitted all the details....I'll see what the blue one does at some point.

Any suggestions - even a Bachmann Class 40 runs happily through all the pointwork?

Yes, ask @Chamby about his modification. Sorry, can't find the reference immediately.

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Harlequin

[rob D2]

13 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

I am now about to contradict myself.

I have recently bought 2 Hornby Class 31s and I have discovered today that on both my BH shunting layouts the green one frequently shorts on the crossings. B2Bs appear to be 14.5mm but the wheels do seem to have significant side play. I'm not happy as I have already installed a sound decoder and fitted all the details....I'll see what the blue one does at some point.

Any suggestions - even a Bachmann Class 40 runs happily through all the pointwork?

I have this issue with all three blue ones,of course they have a lot of slop due to the silly system of collecting current from the axle ends,  my simple low tech solution was to paint on clear varnish either side of the frog by say 5mm, to reduce the chances of the wheels breaching across both rails. It works , at the expense of sometimes the 08 doesn’t like the dead bit .

 

you can see the bits I painted - they are getting a tad mucky 

Edited June 20, 2020 by rob D2

[Gilbert]

Thanks Rob

That's certainly an option for my green one as all the locos I plan to use on one layout (apart from the 31) have stay alives so should cope with the longer gap. The blue one is destined for a layout with a larger fleet so your solution may be more problematic. The only trouble spot appears to be  at the crossing between sleepers 2 and 3 in from left.

[TrevorP1]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

Yes, ask @Chamby about his modification. Sorry, can't find the reference immediately.

 

Sorry I can’t find the link either but definitely  well worth doing. It’s a shame it’s necessary and needs to be done with great care but it improves running no end. 

[RFS]

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Yes, ask @Chamby about his modification. Sorry, can't find the reference immediately.

 

 

It's earlier in this thread starting here - 

 

[Gilbert]

I'm very pleased to report that the use of about 5mm of matt varnish (brushed on Dulcote) on one rail only - straight rail - appears to have resolved the issue.

The Type 2 has just negotiated all possible routes at a very slow speed. Phew...and thanks to all for their advice.

I shall decide if the blue one is a "keeper".

[MarkSG]

That's useful, thanks. Most of the locos that will be part of my current project negotiate the bullhead points OK, but one of them (a Hornby J15)  seems to short occasionally at random. If a dab of varnish to create a dead spot solves the problem then that will be fine - there won't be any 0-4-0 locos on the layout and anything with more wheels should easily straddle the frog. I'm going DCC with this one anyway, so a keepalive will deal with any dead spot problems if there are any.

[Gilbert]

3 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

That's useful, thanks. Most of the locos that will be part of my current project negotiate the bullhead points OK, but one of them (a Hornby J15)  seems to short occasionally at random.

Bizarre - my sound fitted J15 has been fine.....

[MarkSG]

9 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

Bizarre - my sound fitted J15 has been fine.....

 

It's only occasional, but it's the only loco that I've tested on that layout that does it. I think it may be due to the loco being ever so slightly skewed as it crosses the points as a result of the curve leading into them, because it's only one set of points where it does it. It doesn't do it every time, but when it does it it's always the same place.

[Going2theDogs]

Hi All,

An interesting solution.

I have some Hornby class 31 & have had no such issues running over my Peco Bullhead points which is quite bizarre.

Edited June 23, 2020 by CB Rail

[Gilbert]

45 minutes ago, CB Rail said:

Hi All,

An interesting solution.

I have some Hornby class 31 & have had no such issues running over my Peco Bullhead points which is quite bizarre.

Are you running DC or DCC - I have a blue one but I'm not doing anything to it DCC wise until I sort out the lack of headcode discs!

Edited June 21, 2020 by Gilbert

[Going2theDogs]

Hi,

I am a DCC User (deploying the Gaugemaster prodigy 2).

[dasatcopthorne]

A very interesting thread.

 

I have not found a problem with my Hornby 31s (2) but mine are both the 'super detail' versions.

 

Are thhe ones that short the Railroad versions?

 

In trying to sort another Hornby wheel problem I am sure I discovered that some wheels are more like the old Lima style, so could the tyre area be very 'flat' and wide in cross section, this touching the adjoining wing rail.

 

Has anyone with shorting locos discovered exactly what two pieces of rail are shorting?

 

How about checking the B2Bs on the locos that short. Making them 14.5mm may help.

 

Dave

[Gilbert]

7 minutes ago, dasatcopthorne said:

A very interesting thread.

 

I have not found a problem with my Hornby 31s (2) but mine are both the 'super detail' versions.

 

Are thhe ones that short the Railroad versions?

 

In trying to sort another Hornby wheel problem I am sure I discovered that some wheels are more like the old Lima style, so could the tyre area be very 'flat' and wide in cross section, this touching the adjoining wing rail.

 

Has anyone with shorting locos discovered exactly what two pieces of rail are shorting?

 

How about checking the B2Bs on the locos that short. Making them 14.5mm may help.

 

Dave

Hi Dave

They are both the detailed version and the B2Bs seem fine at 14.5 but wheels are wide and there is a lot of potential sideplay.

My short was resolved by covering 5mm of the curved closure rail where it joins the small plastic part before the frog.

[TrevorP1]

When I was trying to 'soldier on' with unmodified pointwork anything with less than a 14.5 back to back was an issue. Also there we're some vehicles with a curve on the rear face of the wheel making the back to back different wherever it was measured. Sadly it was usually Hornby models that caused the problem although no makes were immune.

 

When I had second thoughts on my plans and changed the layout I modified all the Peco Bullheads following @Chamby recommendations. Everything now runs through the pointwork perfectly and stock which was 'OK' before now seems even smoother. I still check every new wheelset and set to 14.5 but I know that the odd ones that, for whatever reason, can't be reset will run without problems.