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LNER4479

Hills of the North - Central Station, the Rest of the World

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Wow!

 

Have you moved into one of the halls at Warley?...

 

That's some layout...40' x 28'....

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that is an awful lot of ballasting (!)..

 

but how does this fit with Chapel en le Frith and Herculaneum Dock?????:dirol_mini:

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31 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

1319102290_Carlisle_masterplan_LR.jpg.1d7a1eb927cd5626cd16c07a8a1654c9.jpg

 

(Oops - nearly forgot to post the actual trackplan)

RL,

 

Brilliant.  Looking forward to seeing the first trains running and of course helping with the scenery. 

 

Tom

 

 

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I looked at the covered picture and guessed you had come up with Grantham on one side and Shap on the other. How wrong I was. All I have now is serious room envy at over 1000sq ft. :-)

 

Look forward to seeing this come together. 

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That’s the Little Long Drag on steroids!

 

In fact it’s the WCML, S&C plus the Waverley route.

 

Will the terminus with overall roof in your possession, become Edinburgh Princes Street?

 

Paul

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No time like the present - first bit of track going down (tooked not one hour ago)

 

DSC09344.JPG

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At least I got it a bit right with the Waverley route.

 

Keith

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1 minute ago, KeithHC said:

At least I got it a bit right with the Waverley route.

 

Keith

 

I think I deserve an honourable mention too!

Albeit a convoluted and twisted figure 8.

 

Mike.

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I am so looking forward to seeing this out on the exhibition circuit Graham. 

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Ambitious, exceptional, wonderful, there are so amny superlatives.

 

But totally mad, and I love it.

 

All the very very best.

 

Ian

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How does this compare to the EM gauge Carlisle that I've seen (sadly few) glimpses of?  Size and scope-wise.

 

Can't disagree with the reasoning behind it - I can still clearly seeing a rare colour picture of dusty red City of London in one of those awful Christmas compilation 'steam train' books my relatives used to get for me 40 odd years ago... 

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By the way, looking at the plan am I correct that this is a permanent layout, and if so does it spell the end for Grantham and Shap or do you plan to continue to exhibit those when time permits?

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Posted (edited)

OK, continuing with the explanations. (will answer specific questions at the end)

 

Part of the ethos is to give equal weighting to the routes into Carlisle as well as the actual station itself. So trains get a bit of a run and traverse at least one scenic section of their route into Carlisle before arrival at the station, where they can cool off after their exertions(!)

 

Tempting though it would have been to have featured all seven routes(!), the finalised plan has settled on three principal routes: the West Coast mainline over Shap, Settle & Carlisle through Garsdale and - in a perhaps surprise choice - the Waverley Route through Riccarton Junction. One of the design philosophies is to try not to cram TOO much in. In a relative sense, 'less is more' and I want there to be enough room to move around the layout. Most of the operating 'wells' are between five and seven feet wide. Afterall, there's more than enough to be building as it is!

 

So let's examine the three chosen routes in turn, starting with the 'Premier Line', the erstwhile Lancaster & Carlisle, LNWR & LMS route from the south, better known as the West Coast Mainline over Shap. Still of course very much still with us, it was always - and very much still remains - the trunk Anglo-Scottish route.

 

1255907213_Carlisle_masterplan_LR_LNWR.jpg.4993b1611b38b4b342f7540ec8acd597.jpg

An express from the south will leave the 'Rest of the World' whereupon we immediately encounter an anomaly - they use part of Carlisle's goods avoiding lines for the first leg of their journey! Well, they're there so might as well use them. This is of course just for expediency; I wouldn't expect much photography of such trains on this part of the layout.

 

More importantly, it get's them to the bottom left corner of the layout, whereupon they encounter a four-way double track junction. This is the 'king point' [sic] of the whole design but will be hidden from view. Taking the second route here (counting from the inside outwards), they then start climbing in earnest and emerge from the gloom at the foot of Shap Bank.

 

Shap212Coronation46251_TW.jpg.0a0bf899b6f1a5df72f7c01536636bf6.jpg[Tony Wright]

Well, big TICK! - already built this bit! Now you can see where the gleeful offer to produce this section for Warley 2017 came from. However, it is just the 20 feet of the Shap Wells scene that will feature; sadly, I cannot fit in the curved section past Shap summit on the grand plan. Instead, trains on the layout will again go 'off scene' as they encounter a 135deg curve the wrong way, having climbed some 6 inches (150mm) to reach the summit of their run.

 

1491708_46241CarlisleUpperby.jpg.2e799f78037f2101d13838aef7363a97.jpg[Herbert Schambach]

Thereafter, they descend, initially non-scenically, before encountering the busy location of Carlisle Upperby. Correctly encountering a left hand curve, this ends up in a near complete 180deg curve to get lined up for the approach to Citadel station. However, there is much of railway interest as they do so and most of the main features are there. There are two successive double junctions here: the first splits off the goods avoiding lines; the second then leaves the goods avoiding lines themselves in order to run into Crown Street Goods depot. There is also space allocated here to depict Upperby Goods Yard itself, together with - most importantly of all - the loco depot. Post-war, this centred around the large concrete roundhouse and was of course the home of the Carlisle-based Duchesses (including No.46238 'City of Carlisle' herself). The turntable needs to be reliable though, as accessibility into the corner could be an issue...

 

Any goods trains (and there will be plenty of those!), either terminate at Upperby or take the goods avoiding lines which brings them round to Dentonholme on the now lost joint goods line over the Caldew bridge - scene of the 1984 accident that led to its closure. Access to Crown Street is via a simple 'trip' arrangement from Upperby goods yard. (the whole nature of goods working in and around the city prior to the opening of the vast Kingmoor marshalling yard is a separate - and fascinating - subject all of its own)

 

Just to mop up the M&C route to Workington and Whitehaven - no room for any depiction of this per se so any trains in this direction simply disappear towards the 'rest of the world'.

 

(more to follow)

Edited by LNER4479
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Don't forget that a lot of this, despite the compression is what we have already built in France. I've done drawings (and some etched bits in places) for a lot of what you have here. Incidentally you've got the Upperby roundhouse a bit small - should be 4ft or so in diameter - you'll have bigger slice of it than we have.

I'll send you a OneDrive link to all my files on Carlisle.

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Posted (edited)

And now to the Midland.

 

403109188_Carlisle_masterplan_LR_Midland.jpg.5daceb2f90923db05f103e6a5535904d.jpg

Trains that travel over the Settle & Carlisle leave the same 'rest of the world' as the Shap trains, making the same way to the bottom left four-way junction. Here they take the fourth, outer-most route which brings them out onto their scenic section, the stretch through Garsdale, the location that made such an impression in my teenage years. It turns out to have been a much-modelled location over the years - but I found it first (ha!), so make no excuses for 'yet another' model of Garsdale. It was deliberately orientated so in order to make use of the naturally curving section beyond the station, across Dandry Mire viaduct and into Moorcock Hill, the perfect device to get the trains off scene again. There is of course the connection with the Wensleydale route to Hawes and beyond. I'll return to that.

 

DSC03464_LR.jpg.2e2b7368936de5d34367f0be07bc8017.jpg

You may recall of course that there's already been some preliminary work on the Garsdale section, with my part-built boards already to hand. So semi-TICK! to this section as well.

 

Then it's a prolonged non-scenic run to get the trains correctly orientated for their entry into Carlisle. Not much I can do about that, although I do have an optional idea to squeeze in one further scene...

 

Anyhow, having stopped to reverse polarity, they return to the four-way junction on the inner route and are now set up to take the right hand, climbing curve up to the station in a prototypical manner.

 

No space for the sidings at Durran Hill, which is where goods traffic over the route typically ran to and from, so goods trains will simply run on to Dentonholme.

 

Trains from the North Eastern route from Newcastle. Well, in another anomaly / compromise, they'll simply have to take the same journey through Garsdale. Still, it'll keep the Garsdale operator busier than he otherwise would have been!

 

More to follow.

Edited by LNER4479
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Really looking forward to seeing this develop, magnificent scenery and locos, whats the plural of duchess.

 

Will the Shap section still feature banking as I think it's the curved section at the top where the engines come off to return down the bank

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Hi Graham, what a fantastic project! Have you set a date for the grand opening? It will then be "Hills of the North, rejoice!"

 Barry

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Happy new year Graham. 
wow that looks amazing but 
why is  garsdale on there any reason. 

 

regards 

mark 

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Posted (edited)

And now onwards from Carlisle.

 

1403532354_Carlisle_masterplan_LR_Waverley.jpg.be26990c9fe4c8f2c6ca186df65ea2cf.jpg

All trains depart northbound in the same area of the layout, round the curve on the right hand side, the goods avoiding lines trailing in to create a prolonged four track section (nice), in the middle of which are two opposing double junctions, representing Caldew junction where the North British lines branched off. It is not intended that this is a fully scenic section - it's actually planned to be tucked underneath Shap Fell(!), the boards for the latter were thoughtfully designed to give sufficient headspace for these lines. Trains destined for the Caledonian route (over Beattock) or the GSWR towards the border at Gretna simply take the third route at 'Grand Junction' to return to the 'Rest of the World'. The North British route trains have a much more exciting journey however.

 

Ideally, I would have like to have featured somewhere on Beattock bank ... but then I figured that would really only duplicate Shap as quite a few trains continued on either side of Carlisle on the West Coast mainline. So, faced with the choice of one of the other (the GSWR route not really holding quite the same appeal - sorry!), I've plumped for the Waverley route and the iconic location of Riccarton junction. The fact that this is one of the very few now closed routes out of Carlisle adds a bit of spice. Although there are some depictions of the route in model form, not sure I've ever seen anybody have a decent crack at Riccarton.

 

2143329809_Riccartongeneralview3.jpg.b75576ffaa3353694a4c3f5984da959a.jpg[from the Internet, somewhere ... ]

There are also personal reasons. Captivated by the history, romance and sad fate of the route, Dad and myself once walked the trackbed from Steele Road to Riccarton Junction (in 1983). Wow - that was quite something. The desolation and remoteness of Riccarton was ... well ... quite magnificent! If Garsdale is an outlandish spot for a station then Riccarton was just bizarre. AND a junction station as well. Back home, the Peter Handforth LP 'The railway to Riccarton' provided all the atmosphere required.

 

SO - having picked up the NBR route at Caldew Junc, trains run past the Carlisle Canal complex, a delightful excuse for a second and quite separate loco depot (no room for any aspect of the Kingmoor complex, unfortunately). There is also a representation of Canal Goods Yard, although not orientated correctly and also the junction of the Silloth branch. Thereafter, in the manner of the route, trains start to climb ... and climb ... and climb(!) Riccarton was towards the upper end of a relentless 10 miles of twisting 1-in-75. And I go on about Shap! This was no incline that could be rushed; it was a long, hard slog for all but the lightest of trains.

 

The first bit will be hidden from view under an expansive fell side - giving the perfect excuse to depict the amazing 100% rail-dependent village that once existed at Riccarton. Trains will then appear round the sharp bend over on the right hand side to give them the correct, left hand curving alignment through the station which is - for once - on a prototypically sharp curve.

 

Thereafter, it is a little bit of a fudge. Trains will disappear rather abruptly off scene into a separate Edinburgh fiddle yard. This was the final 'nut' to crack - I could not for the life of me configure the plan to get Waverley trains back to the main 'rest of the world' so this was the result. It'll be the highest point of the layout, some 8 inches / 200mm above 'ground zero'.

 

More to follow

Edited by LNER4479
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And lastly - the branchline.

 

391121777_Carlisle_masterplan_LR_branch.jpg.39239d9f3d28dda83089a2c55fda4311.jpg

Branchline? Well, more of a cross country route if truth be told. By happy coincidence (ha!) both Garsdale and Riccarton were junction stations. So I've simply linked them up!

 

A few issues with that though. Main one being that Garsdale was a junction with NER (purists will argue that it was MR to Hawes whence it became NER, but you get my drift) whereas Riccarton was the NBR Border Counties route to Hexham. The thought is to have somewhere mid-way to have the chance for trains to either run round and return or at least change locos, probably where the return S&C lines cross the route (where is says '40'). I'm toying with the idea of making a feature of this; a rather cramped version of Reedsmouth Junction would fit.

 

The height difference with Riccarton junction is potentially solved by the use of a spiral (gotta have one somewhere!), hidden by the extensive fell scenery, which again allows for the correct orientation as the line approaches Riccarton.

 

IMG_7381_LR.jpg.31c0ee871dd09621108c5786af660e0c.jpg

One the left hand side ... that short length of double track? Why, a depiction of a rather spectacular viaduct that use to fill this gap. It's not on either of the respective lines ... but it's definitely in the 'Hills of the North'. And it's my railway. Rule 1 and all that.

 

Now - it appears I have some questions to answer.

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That's a fabulous plan Graham.  I just wonder when ut's all planned to be finished.  If you've got room for a cameo near Canal shed I've a coiple of photos of the fureless loco that worked at Carr's biscuit works.

 

Jamie

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Posted (edited)

OK - responding to a few questions / responses

 

6 hours ago, gordon s said:

Have you moved into one of the halls at Warley?...

 

That's some layout...40' x 28'....

In a carefully targeted purchase, me and the present Mrs4479 (such an improvement over the first one) moved into a former Methodist chapel and school house some seven years ago now. They (primitive Methodist chapels) apparently come in a standard size of 42' x 28'. With the former school house part (it's all one building) of ample size for us (once the upstairs conversion was done), that left the chapel as ... er ... um, the model railway room? I just need to leave the right hand side free. That's the 'office' top right, with the door through to the house in the extreme top right corner. Bottom right is the side door out into the garden.

 

5 hours ago, Flying Fox 34F said:

That’s the Little Long Drag on steroids!

 

Will the terminus with overall roof in your possession, become Edinburgh Princes Street?

Funny you should say that. David Jenkinson was definitely my railway modelling 'muse'. I still have many of his layout building articles to hand, have several of his books, etc. Always thought it was a shame he never saw 'Little Long Drag' through to a conclusion.

No - overall roof station is ex-Manchester Central from my former Gowhole layout. It needs a bit of work to make it suitable for its new role; I'm not that bothered as to what it actually looks like as it representing all sorts of destinations.

 

5 hours ago, KeithHC said:

At least I got it a bit right with the Waverley route.

Indeed you did Sir! Your crystal ball was working well.

 

4 hours ago, Dragonboy said:

I am so looking forward to seeing this out on the exhibition circuit Graham. 

WELL ... Maybe not the whole thing, but it would be my intention that bits of it (mainly the three scenic route section) can be exhibited. The temptation to take it out as one big modular style layout is ... a temptation, at least at this stage.

 

4 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

How does this compare to the EM gauge Carlisle that I've seen (sadly few) glimpses of?  Size and scope-wise.

Mike Edge can answer you chapter and verse but I think 'chalk and cheese' comes to mind in terms of any direct comparison. I think I'm right in saying that EM Carlisle is in a purpose-made building 100ft long (mine is a mere 35ft) and is exact scale length for over a mile.

 

3 hours ago, pirouets said:

By the way, looking at the plan am I correct that this is a permanent layout, and if so does it spell the end for Grantham and Shap or do you plan to continue to exhibit those when time permits?

I think I've partly answered that above but just to say that Grantham already has a provisional date in the diary for 2024 so still has plenty of life left yet on the exhibition circuit. Being realistic, the layout depicted isn't going to be built overnight(!) so there's plenty of scope for a staged build that retains the ability to store and work on Grantham for a few more years yet.

 

2 hours ago, richard.h said:

Will the Shap section still feature banking as I think it's the curved section at the top where the engines come off to return down the bank

Yes, I'm certainly planning to build this in - there'll certainly be plenty of trains of sufficient length / weight that need banking.

 

2 hours ago, Bazza said:

Hi Graham, what a fantastic project! Have you set a date for the grand opening? It will then be "Hills of the North, rejoice!"

Being realistic, I think it's a 10-15 year build, certainly to have all aspects fully operational and scenicked as described.

 

1 hour ago, mark axlecounter said:


why is  garsdale on there any reason. 

 

I did (I think?) give an explanation of that earlier but essentially it's my favourite place on the S&C, stemming from the day I first 'discovered' it in 1979.

 

38 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

That's a fabulous plan Graham.  I just wonder when ut's all planned to be finished.  If you've got room for a cameo near Canal shed I've a coiple of photos of the fureless loco that worked at Carr's biscuit works.

Yes, there were several private sidings etc dotted around the city, Cowans Sheldon crane works is another obvious (ie tempting) one. If I get the chance to squeeze one in I will.

Edited by LNER4479
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3 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

 

Anyhow, having stopped to reverse polarity, they return to the four-way junction on the inner route and are now set up to take the right hand, climbing curve up to the station in a prototypical manner.

 

 

 

Take a look at frog juicers; it will get around this issue without you needing to stop trains.

 

There are a number of providers; I use these.  You will need one per rail; so a pair for each line.

 

You scheme looks impressive; should keep you busy for a while!

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

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