RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted October 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2019 Thanks maico. My 2-6-4Ts were purchased second hand so I never did get an instruction manual. Thank you for posting one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted October 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2019 Thanks maico. My 2-6-4Ts were purchased second hand so I never did get an instruction manual. Thank you for posting one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) Forgot this - it's a bit unkind to single out BMC for manufacturing rot boxes. Ford and (especially) Vauxhall* were just as capable. My 1964 Corsair needed plates welded to the top of her Macpherson struts when the flimsy mountings rusted through. (Just singling out cars built in Britain - Fiat were just as bad for example. I think only Volvo could claim any credit in this respect. Apologies if I've forgotten others. * By the way, how on Earth do they claim to be a British company in their ads? They became part of General Motors (inventors of the deadly X-frame chassis!) in the twenties (1924 IIRC) and are now part of the Peugeot-Citroën empire. OT Over, back to the thread. Does anyone else remember the awful mini-toothpaste tube oil thingy which came with Dublo locomotives? Itreplaced a nasty thin glass vial with a piece of thick wire stuck in a cork to seal it. (H & S would have a fit today!). The oil caused the cork to shrink and then it leaked out. Tri-ang provided a more substantial glass bottle which at least stood upright. (I believe Trix did the same.) I suspect most ended up with 3-in-1 from Woolworth's. A large can for much the same price as the manufacturer's offering (If they got oiled at all that is!) This what you got if you shelled out 75/- (about £80-90 in today's Monopoly money) for a Marshall III. The two year guarantee was outstanding in those days. Most Dublo got 90 days. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.worthpoint.com%2Fzoom%2Fimages1%2F360%2F0712%2F01%2Fmeccano-marshall-iii-power-control_360_fb7cffd5d1deca7701255723bb7a200a.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.worthpoint.com%2Fworthopedia%2Fmeccano-marshall-iii-power-control-310678335&tbnid=B7PHvbwxEZJsrM&vet=12ahUKEwjAytSJipXlAhVW_4UKHYuMCSMQMygHegUIARDaAQ..i&docid=D2r3ZvNo8Df6UM&w=400&h=364&q=dublo marshall iii instructions&client=firefox-b-d&ved=2ahUKEwjAytSJipXlAhVW_4UKHYuMCSMQMygHegUIARDaAQ I've just noticed this! Sixty five quid for a piece of paper! They have to be Joking! The "poor photocopies" obviously have a value vanishingly close to zero. http://www.biancolibrary.com/best_book_price_copy_of_8072 or maybe (OK it is a rare shop showcard, but £110! I like the "only 52/6d"!). http://www.biancolibrary.com/best_book_price_copy_of_5185 If the A2 was only sold for nine months, it would explain their relative rarity. It was replaced with the Marshall II of course. Talking of Marshall IIs, someone appears to have thought one to be worth £35. I obviously got a bargain! Also an A2 made £20 http://www.chuffers.com/Hornby_Dublo/hornby_dublo.html Edited October 15, 2019 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) On 15/10/2019 at 11:01, Il Grifone said: By the way, how on Earth do they claim to be a British company in their ads? They became part of General Motors (inventors of the deadly X-frame chassis!) in the twenties (1924 IIRC) and are now part of the Peugeot-Citroën empire. Must admit, that claim has annoyed me since they started using it. Rather like SK equating the current Hornby brand with the lineage of Binns Lane Hornby. Adman speak, not to be confused with reality... Back on topic, I've a couple of Marshall controllers, the one with the metal control lever and the one with the black plastic knob. I've not used the III for decades, due to two factors, the rubber mains cable and the push in blade connectors to take the track and aux voltages out. Hens teeth items and I don't have any! The rubber cabling is the main no-no btw! Edited October 17, 2019 by Hroth added info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 The push in connectors were a feature of the A3 (A2 as well?). Not having the connectors with my A3 (or the instructions - at the time (1963/4) they might still have been available had I known), I just shoved the wires in the socket thinking it was a rubbish design (I still do! - Tri-ang had a somewhat similar, but rather flimsier design). The Marshals have proper terminals, though even these really need their wires terminated with solder tags. (Trix were keen on plug-in connections too, but supplied a decent plug (or you could use the standard wander plug, which seems to have disappeared from the market.) There is a tenuous connection between Tri-ang* sorry Hornby and Binns Road but it really is tenuous.... * I always think of them as Tri-ang, 1. because they are, whatever the legal hang-ups, and 2. it saves confusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) Today I acquired a Marshal II and a Marshal Controller (well they were 50p each and looked like they needed a good home!). The II is still riveted together and will probably get left alone, but the base of the controller was fixed with 3 nuts and bolts. They look suspiciously like Meccano parts being a black hexagonal nut and matching domed bolt. IIRC this would be consistent with the era (I'll check), so might be original? The low voltage would not require the unit to be riveted. Looking inside, there is a selenium* rectifier (with signs of resoldering) connected to several turns of (presumably resistance) wire wound on a former connected to the speed control switch (8 speeds forward and reverse) and a pulse power switch. Unfortunately the wire is rubber insulated (still OK, but showing signs of hardening). So, in the unlikely event I actually use the thing, it will require rewiring. The mains lead of the Marshal II is PVC, so presumably there were still stocks of rubber insulated wire in Binns Road to use up. * It could be copper oxide, which was also used to make rectifiers back then. (Apparently selenium rectifiers can be taken apart and still work when reassembled, but copper oxide can't.) EDIT Apparently the Meccano black screws date from considerably later (1978) (sorry I recalled wongly!) so it appears to have been 'got at' at a later date. This would explain the resoldering of the rectifier, but it is still riveted to the base. (Perhaps it turned out to be OK after all?) http://www.nzmeccano.com/Parts.php Edited October 19, 2019 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) Further investigation has produced a picture on the internet showing the controller with rivets holding on the base, (as I would have expected). Obviously they have been drilled out, but the job has been done very neatly. Now I'll have to try and find another nut and bolt. I must have one in stock somewhere or at least four the same. Edited October 19, 2019 by Il Grifone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 On 12/10/2019 at 13:14, Il Grifone said: omis A local Chinese Emporium in Sardinia has some wire ended 12 volt bulbs at 2 for 1€. (for vehicle instrument panels) and I was tempted to try these, but would really prefer something more original. omis In the end I purchased these. First experiments seem to be successful, but they need to be soldered in. With Xmas in the way, I haven't been able to try anything more, but hopefully in the next day or two.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) On 19/10/2019 at 08:39, Il Grifone said: They look suspiciously like Meccano parts being a black hexagonal nut and matching domed bolt. Probably not Meccano. More likely 4 or 6 BA. At that period Meccano used square brass nuts brass slotted cheese-head screws. It might have been a BA thread profile - anyone happen to know? EDIT: Google is your friend - the thread is 5/32 BSW Edited January 1, 2020 by AndyID More info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Yes, The contemporary Meccano Nuts and bolts were square and cheesehead brass finish steel. The black ones are from a decade or so later. These are almost certainly Meccano however. http://www.nzmeccano.com/37.php At a push 4MA nuts and bolts will do (Dublo scale was 5/32" to the foot originally). The odd screws in Dublo locomotives (holding the bodies on) are Meccano parts of course. Otherwise they are BA. Tri-ang are also BA. Trix are usually BA, but sometimes are metric. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I had meccano when it was green and red (I'm not actually that old but my grandma used to have a shop before I was born and it was old stock) which had round headed bolts and hexagonal nuts. My friend, with a more modern set in the 1970s (blue and yellow) had square nuts (I mean the mecanno, not him) - can't remember what his boltheads were like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2020 My Meccano must have been a cross then. Red and green with round headed bolts and square nuts. Mostly purchased from Fletcher's bicycle shop in Railway Street, Lisburn. Also got Dublo from the same shop, but no bicycles. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skin_2 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Umm, to get back to the topic, I removed the lamp from my Marshall III controller and it's a tubular MES lamp, but has two filaments. The only marking on it is 'Vitality X878', which isn't very helpful. As a test, I supplied it with 6V which made it light fairly bright, although I got the feeling that the rating would have been higher than this. It quickly got too hot to hold and so I connected an ammeter and the current draw was 1.5A at 6V - not surprising it got hot quickly. I'll attach a photo of it - I've never seen a lamp quite like this before. Someone may recognise it though. I don't know if it's the original lamp but Vitality bulbs would have been going when the Marshall III controller was manfactured Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I think that's just a single filament that is supported in the middle. Assuming that's the original bulb (which seems likely) it would be good if you can characterize the resistance by measuring the current at different voltages say at 1 volt appart. The resistance will be much less at low currents and increase dramatically as the filament heats up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skin_2 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 3 hours ago, AndyID said: I think that's just a single filament that is supported in the middle. Assuming that's the original bulb (which seems likely) it would be good if you can characterize the resistance by measuring the current at different voltages say at 1 volt appart. The resistance will be much less at low currents and increase dramatically as the filament heats up. Hi Andy. The photo doesn't show it very well, but the lamp definitely has two electrodes with two filaments in parallel connected to them - it's not a single filament supported in the middle, I'm familiar with those. I'll try and do another that shows it more clearly as the photo I posted is looking end on to the electrodes. It sounds a good idea to measure the current at differing voltages, I'll try and set something up so that I can measure the voltage and current at the same time. It's a pity there's no further information on the lamp, mostly they have a voltage and current (or power) marked on them. Cheers Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 This - https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im193901MM-Vitality.jpg doesn't show your bulb, but does indicate that Vitality were making double filament bulbs. The fact that there is only a single connection pip on the bottom of your device indicates that to all intents and purposes you could treat this as an ordinary bulb. Unfortunately I could not find any information as to the specs. of this lamp or any immediate alternative. Emma 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 But I did find this ..... https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=52435 Emma Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) The bulb is part of the cut-out circuit and does a double function as overload indicator. There is a coil of (presumably) resistance wire in parallel. Without the bulb. a train will run, but not at full power. The one I have with the correct bulb (Vitality X.878) just lights the bulb with a Dublo motor under load. This would draw around 0.6/0.7A or around the rating of the controller. I have still to try the bulbs I bought.... I got as far as disconnecting the unit, but couldn't find the soldering iron! Red and green Meccano should have brass finish cheesehead bolts and square nuts. Some brass finish parts appeared in black in the Korean War period, but whether this included nuts and bolts I don't know. Black nuts and bolts were supplied in military sets in the later black and yellow period. EDIT Apparently it did Korean war nuts and bolts are black. Edited January 26, 2020 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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