Black Notley - BR Eastern

[pwr]

10 minutes ago, Fenman said:

That Class 17 looks completely at home on your layout.

 

My only thought was whether a green one might look even more stunning; and it would probably sit more happily alongside the 31.

 

In my view the two-tone green scheme looked its very best on the Clayton (other opinions are available!).
 

Paul

 

Yes indeed you could be right but the RTC version was I am sure was blue and I didn't want to get two!

 

Paul R

[Fenman]

58 minutes ago, pwr said:

... I didn't want to get two!

 

But why wouldn't you?!

 

Paul

[pwr]

Well yes. I do have two or more of a number of classes but I have to stop somewhere! I have rather too many more on a pre-order list with a certain larger retailer!

 

I checked the material I have and D8598 was the RTC version and it was blue. It did have some mods in its new role - lights and pipework but to what extent this model gets them I am not sure. Interestingly the good photo of this loco I have shows the numbers in the old green diesel style. It never received the RTC official numbers in the 97xxx range. It lasted till 1978 I believe after which the APT programme had moved on to Engineering dept development and away from RTC and concentrating on the P trains. I think the POP train was in its version 2 enclosed format by then with the prototype P-Train car inserted between them.

 

Paul R

[woodyfox]

7 hours ago, pwr said:

Well yes. I do have two or more of a number of classes but I have to stop somewhere! I have rather too many more on a pre-order list with a certain larger retailer!

 

I checked the material I have and D8598 was the RTC version and it was blue. It did have some mods in its new role - lights and pipework but to what extent this model gets them I am not sure. Interestingly the good photo of this loco I have shows the numbers in the old green diesel style. It never received the RTC official numbers in the 97xxx range. It lasted till 1978 I believe after which the APT programme had moved on to Engineering dept development and away from RTC and concentrating on the P trains. I think the POP train was in its version 2 enclosed format by then with the prototype P-Train car inserted between them.

 

Paul R

I saw the Clayton at Willesden Brent one evening when i was on a van train back in the early 90's. Total surprise - i had to look 3 times to be sure. Only one i've ever seen. Lovely beast. 

[pwr]

Well the Class 17's notorious unreliability has struck again and the loco failed on its second proving run and was unceremonially dumped in the Black Notley goods yard much to the disgust of the yard foreman who is expecting 4 wagons to unload from the daily pick up goods. There are are rumours that a 37 is on its way from Stratford to collect it.

 

 

Back to reality - I am going to give this and the new 31 a try out on some plain track in the conservatory later and I want to recheck the gears on my 37/47 and Deltic which have not been run in two years. I am expecting gear failure.

 

Paul R

[pwr]

Well I am pleased to say that the 17 and the new 31 work fine although when I put the 17 back on the layout a small screw fell out from where I do not know!

 

The 31 has a bit of a growl but probably needs running in.

 

So then the 37 which struggled to move and has the characteristic clack when the gear is split. So I will have to dismantle it to investigate. I feel very cross out this as its hardly been used in the years since it came out and  its the second time a gear has gone. The first went even before I had it out of the box. I know these faults occur but Heljan's less than satisfactory response is simply unacceptable. I think I am going to write to the GOG and tell them their response to this issue which is still not resolved, is simply not good enough.  

 

So I will fix this one tomorrow and then see what condition the 47 is in

 

Paul R

[jcarta]

I feel for you on this issue.  

 

According to Heljan one of the causes of the gears splitting is if these loco's aren't run often.  It's so annoying 

[woodyfox]

It may not be too helpful, but i had a slipping gear on a DJH 47 (albeit brass over a steel axle) that i fixed using a two part epoxy from Halfords that is designed to work on steel. You can imagine the torque that was at play between the gear and axle. 

[pwr]

2 hours ago, woodyfox said:

It may not be too helpful, but i had a slipping gear on a DJH 47 (albeit brass over a steel axle) that i fixed using a two part epoxy from Halfords that is designed to work on steel. You can imagine the torque that was at play between the gear and axle. 

 

From previous experience I don't think a repair is possible. The cause of the problem is that the axle is slightly too big for the hole and its forced in and puts the whole assembly under too high a pressure and causes it to split. There is no rhyme nor reason as to when they go but in my opinion they all will fail. My first failure was on this loco before it had even run. 

 

If you think that the problem affects mainly the 35, 37, 47 and 55 and there are a minimum of 500 of each made then that's 8000 gears that will eventually fail. I don't actually know how many were made of each loco but I don't think Heljan have produced anything like 8000 spares. Quite a number will be collectors models and may not have run or be intended to run. I have one each of the affected models and I don't have enough spares to replace them all and that was buying a set from Jim Snowdon. 

 

They are not listed on Gaugemaster's website and I don't know when they will next become available.

 

You can understand the frustration of those who have expensive models they can't use

 

Paul R

[Hal Nail]

 

1 hour ago, pwr said:

If you think that the problem affects mainly the 35, 37, 47 and 55 and there are a minimum of 500 of each made then that's 8000 gears that will eventually fail. 

Plus the 26 and 33 and the Hymek and 47 each had 2 runs I think? Thats an awful lot of gears when you put it like that.

 

I suspect back when Howes were dishing out free gears it seemed like a small number affected. I certainly was aware at the time but my loco was fine then and i thought it was one of those things that doesn't affect every model.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Hal Nail

[pwr]

51 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

 

Plus the 26 and 33 and the Hymek and 47 each had 2 runs I think? Thats an awful lot of gears when you put it like that.

 

I suspect back when Howes were dishing out free gears it seemed like a small number affected. I certainly was aware at the time but my loco was fine then and i thought it was one of those things that doesn't affect every model.

 

 

I didn't go for a 26 or 33 first time round but I also hear that the first run of 31's might have the problem and these have a different gear train

 

Paul R

[pwr]

So as I have described in the post on Heljan gears I had the class 37 to bits and all four gears had split and had to be replaced.  Its now running as it should but worryingly one of the gears that had split was already a replacement for an earlier split so I think these new spares are going to suffer from the same problem. Anyhow its all fixed for now

 

 

Here she is on the layout arriving from Stratford to collect the errant 17 and take it for repairs,

 

 

This is one of the original batch - the third loco Heljan did and I really must get round to numbering it.

 

Paul R

[pwr]

So having run the 47 this morning I seem to have the same problem with the gears.

 

So I will have to go through the same process again!

 

Paul R

[woodyfox]

4 minutes ago, pwr said:

So having run the 47 this morning I seem to have the same problem with the gears.

 

So I will have to go through the same process again!

 

Paul R

That must be so annoying. It's not like you can go back to the bench and fettle a repair as with other faults. 

[pwr]

I am going to replace the 47 gears with Jim Snowdon's - I have a set. I just hope that between the Hymek and the Deltic they are both not afflicted as I only have  5 more Heljan ones in stock

 

Paul R

[pwr]

I've tested the Deltic and it doesn't seem to be affected. Breathes sigh of relief! I have looked at the Ultrascale replacements and if the Hymek is affected I may order a set up. I may order a set anyway as the ones in the 37 are bound to go again. They are relatively easy if time consuming to replace.

 

Paul R

[lmsforever]

If you want to get up close a real live Clayton come down to the Chinnor Rly Oxfordshire when things get back to normal .There will be a diesel gala the Clayton usually runs plus a 37 so well worth a visit.  

[Hal Nail]

8 hours ago, pwr said:

I am going to replace the 47 gears with Jim Snowdon's - I have a set. I just hope that between the Hymek and the Deltic they are both not afflicted as I only have  5 more Heljan ones in stock

 

Paul R

How about just fixing one bogie and un-wiring the other motor. Then at least you are only using 2 spares at a time?

[pwr]

12 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

How about just fixing one bogie and un-wiring the other motor. Then at least you are only using 2 spares at a time?

 

I agree its a solution but they will ultimately fail again from experience and its not an option I want to pursue. I ran the Hymek last night and its also afflicted which means three out of the 4 locos I have that suffer this are affected, the Hymek and 37 more than once. I haven't fixed the 47 yet so I don't now how many gears are affected but I have decided I am going to have to replace them all with brass to finally fix the problem. I'll do the 47 now as I have some Jim Snowdon replacements, fix the Hymek with the spare plastic ones and order a set of Ultrascale which I may then fit to the 37. In due course I will have to get another 2 sets for the Hymek and the Deltic.

 

Paul R

[pwr]

Did a bit more to the BAA last night. I have reached the point of bending up and fixing the load bearers. The photo shows the arrangement. For ease of bending the fold lines have been etched right through for most of the length which means they have to be soldered and are prone to bending. The first one I did warped as I was using the 75w iron - too much heat!  I have now found a way to solder these up with a resistance soldering iron but the corners need filling which I may have to do with low melt.

 

A modern kit would have had these as parts etched on much thinner metal - probably stainless steel, but all the parts on this kit are in the same etch to keep costs down. I think this was originally produced in the late 1980's or early 1990's. Its still available from PRMRP.

 

Compared to the Cavalex 4mm RTR BBA, this kit  version this is a dinosaur!  Even in 4mm you can see through the deck as with the prototype whereas here is an etched floor plate which can easily get clogged with solder if you are not careful.

 

There are 37 of these things to fold, solder and fit!

 

 

I also looked at the buffer beam arrangement for the Freightliner outer last night and I am blowed if I can see how it folds up correctly even having a close up photo of the prototype. The instructions of course are no help whatsoever! 

 

I'll try again over the weekend once I have sorted the Hymek and 47

 

Paul R

[pwr]

This morning's shot shows the 37 departing with the errant 17.

 

 

Wasting no time the yard foreman has the 08 move the Warwell into position for unloading.

 

 

More later

 

Paul R

[pwr]

Well I have had the 47 to bits tonight and 3 of the four drive gears are split. So I have replaced them all with the Jim Snowden gears and all is now well. I hope I won't have to do this again on this loco. Next is the Hymek for which I have only a set of Heljan plastic replacements which I will use but I am minded to order up a set of Ultrascales to replace them and another for the 37 as I am sure these replacements will fail also in time.

 

Paul R

[boeing7572t6]

Hello Paul

Hopefully all is well with you and yours.

Your recent posts have been rather unnerving regarding Heljan locos.
I bought a cl31 at auction about 2 months ago, obviously unseen and it is now sitting at my son in law’s whilst I wait clearance to return from Cyprus to collect. I am not willing to risk the Loco to the postal system so it just sits there untested.

 I have not seen any reports of gear failure for the 31 but it is worrying.

time will tell

Bob

 

[jcarta]

1 hour ago, boeing7572t6 said:

Hello Paul

Hopefully all is well with you and yours.

Your recent posts have been rather unnerving regarding Heljan locos.
I bought a cl31 at auction about 2 months ago, obviously unseen and it is now sitting at my son in law’s whilst I wait clearance to return from Cyprus to collect. I am not willing to risk the Loco to the postal system so it just sits there untested.

 I have not seen any reports of gear failure for the 31 but it is worrying.

time will tell

Bob

 

Bob

 

I don't believe the Class 31's were prone to this type of failure. The only issue I had with mine was one of the motors had become loose and dropped so it didn't run smoothly but it sounded and acted like it had a split gear. I took it to Howes and they checked it over and realigned the motor for me...... still running smooth after 5 years.

 

Jim

[boeing7572t6]

Thank you Jim, that’s very reassuring.

Bob