What services does the Eurostar e300 still run on?

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

Hi everyone,

 

Does anyone know what services by Eurostar still use the e300s as later on in the year I'm planning to go on one for the last time before another icon of Britain is lost.

 

Kind regards, Matthew

[jim.snowdon]

Assuming that by e300, you mean the 373s, the only significant element that was British was the traction equipment, and even then, GEC was getting very cosy with Alsthom. The rest of the train is pure TGV, albeit to a reduced gauge and equipped with shoegear.

 

Jim

[Ron Ron Ron]

" icon of Britain". ????

 

As Jim has already said, the e300 (a.k.a. Class 373) is a French TGV, shrink washed to fit the UK loading gauge.

 

The last one I went on, about 6 months ago, showed evidence of rotting away, with cracks, splits and corrosion on the body panels, near the coach ends.

 

 

p.s. I thought the shoe gear was removed nearly 10 years ago, after HS1 opened?

 

 

.

[Fat Controller]

Hi everyone,

 

Does anyone know what services by Eurostar still use the e300s as later on in the year I'm planning to go on one for the last time before another icon of Britain is lost.

 

Kind regards, Matthew

They're still used on the Lyon- Avignon- Marseilles service, and the seasonal ski-trains. They still crop up on other workings, though; currently about a third of services at a guess. 'British icon' is a bit strong; they were, and are, still a collaborative effort between Alsthom and GEC.

[jjb1970]

Personally I prefer them to the new e320 trains as although the unrefurbished sets are very tired now I find the 373's have a much nicer ride quality.

[eastwestdivide]

Is Ashford now approved for the new 374s? For a while, only the "old" trains were able to call there, so an Ashford call was a good bet for one.

I had an unrefurbished 373 on the 1258 StP-Brussels in early June '18, but my original reservation was changed when I checked in, so I presume they were expecting it to be a 374.

My return in mid-June was a 374 on the 1455 Brussels-StP, no seat change on check-in.

(neither service was booked to call at Ashford)

Edited July 3, 2018 by eastwestdivide

[Fat Controller]

Is Ashford now approved for the new 374s? For a while, only the "old" trains were able to call there, so an Ashford call was a good bet for one.

I had an unrefurbished 373 on the 1258 StP-Brussels in early June '18, but my original reservation was changed when I checked in, so I presume they were expecting it to be a 374.

My return in mid-June was a 374 on the 1455 Brussels-StP, no seat change on check-in.

(neither service was booked to call at Ashford)

It is supposedly capable of taking the new stock, having had 'KVB' fitted recently (the new stock not having BR AWS fitted); I've yet to see whether there has been an increase of services from there.

[The Stationmaster]

     AFK is my local station and it was fully refurbished and resignalled with platform reworking to allow the new Eurostar units to run, but it turns out the work was cocked up somewhere along the line with the signalling, and so Ashford is still lumbered with the older units. The newer E320s have to take the flyover on the CTRL just behind the station, going over the Hitatchi depot south of the station.

 

I understand, from other sources, that for some reason Ashford station has not been cleared for Class 374 operation and that as a consequence Eurostar will have to retain Class 373s for longer than was originally planned.

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

The reason why I call them a British icon is because they are really the first and only high speed services in Britain. I know the are mostly French but some were built in Britain and we all have our different views, and to my eyes they are an icon of Britain. Someone also said they had British parts in them, that's one British part more than the e320's. I don't care about the e320s as to me they are a squeaky piece of metal. The 373's maybe old but they still have life in them and when someone said they had cracks and corrosion on the sides they are referring to the ones that are either stored, out of service, un-refurbished or scrapped. The refurbished ones look better and don't have those cracks. I'm not trying to start an argument or debate that's  just why I think they are a British icon.

 

Kind Regards, Matthew

[roythebus]

My cousin Peter is an engineer on the E* sets at Stratford Depot and a couple of years ago he said the old units were cracking up, even the refurbs. there's a lot of wiring issues, software problems, brake problems, not all stuff visible to the average passenger or observer. remember they've hd 20-odd years of high speed running, going from the depths of winter into a rather hot tunnel where temperatures regularly reach in excess of 110F with accompaniment of the 100mph gales all the time! they are life-expired.

[ianmacc]

Is the power car in the NRM a 373?

[Taz]

I went to Eurodisney from Ashford two weeks ago. Refurbed 373 on the way out. Original 373 on the way back. The refurb train seemed to be in good nick but the train for the return journey was very tired with lots of broken trim etc.

[Fat Controller]

My cousin Peter is an engineer on the E* sets at Stratford Depot and a couple of years ago he said the old units were cracking up, even the refurbs. there's a lot of wiring issues, software problems, brake problems, not all stuff visible to the average passenger or observer. remember they've hd 20-odd years of high speed running, going from the depths of winter into a rather hot tunnel where temperatures regularly reach in excess of 110F with accompaniment of the 100mph gales all the time! they are life-expired.

It would be interesting to see how many kilometres/ miles a typical set has covered in the twenty-odd years since construction. 

Your figures for the temperature in the Channel Tunnel are a bit on the high side; normal temperature is about 30 Celsius (86 Fahrenheit). Still pretty warm, though the 'cooling breeze' from the trains means it doesn't feel that hot.

[The Stationmaster]

The reason why I call them a British icon is because they are really the first and only high speed services in Britain. I know the are mostly French but some were built in Britain and we all have our different views, and to my eyes they are an icon of Britain. Someone also said they had British parts in them, that's one British part more than the e320's. I don't care about the e320s as to me they are a squeaky piece of metal. The 373's maybe old but they still have life in them and when someone said they had cracks and corrosion on the sides they are referring to the ones that are either stored, out of service, un-refurbished or scrapped. The refurbished ones look better and don't have those cracks. I'm not trying to start an argument or debate that's  just why I think they are a British icon.

 

Kind Regards, Matthew

 

Technically they are a long way from being the first high speed trains in Britain - by around 20 years - as they were preceded into traffic by BR's HSTs and the ECML Class 91/Mk4 coach formations.   True they run at much higher speeds than HSTs but in terms of network coverage they have always been insignificant limited for most of their lives to just one route compared with the earlier BR high speed trains to which have been added subsequently the Voyager family and Class 180s

[Oakydoke]

....... to which have been added subsequently the Voyager family and Class 180s

....and Pendolino, Class 395 Javelin, Class 800 series and TPX's new Class 397.

[DY444]

Is the power car in the NRM a 373?

 

Yes

[Ron Ron Ron]

They're still used on the Lyon- Avignon- Marseilles service, and the seasonal ski-trains. They still crop up on other workings........

 

 

There's supposed to have been only 5 sets (pairs???) of 373's that were ever equipped with 1,500v DC to operate to the south of France, Avignon and on the winter-only ski services.

I'm assuming that these will have to be kept as long as they intend to run these services?

 

 

 

.

[The Stationmaster]

There's supposed to have been only 5 sets (pairs???) of 373's that were ever equipped with 1,500v DC to operate to the south of France, Avignon and on the winter-only ski services.

I'm assuming that these will have to be kept as long as they intend to run these services?

 

 

 

.

 

Agree but I have always understood that the 'conversion' to run on 1,500vDC is relatively simple. due to SNCf thinking ahead (for once) when the trains were designed.

[TravisM]

Agree but I have always understood that the 'conversion' to run on 1,500vDC is relatively simple. due to SNCf thinking ahead (for once) when the trains were designed.

I always thought that all the Class 373’s when first built were tri/quad voltage with 750v DC 3rd rail, 1500/3000v DC overhead for the Belgian and French systems as well as the standard 25kv AC overhead for the HS1 and TGV lines. Obviously once HS1 was open and running without issues, the 3rd rail shoegear was redundant and removed.

[DY444]

I always thought that all the Class 373’s when first built were tri/quad voltage with 750v DC 3rd rail, 1500/3000v DC overhead for the Belgian and French systems as well as the standard 25kv AC overhead for the HS1 and TGV lines. Obviously once HS1 was open and running without issues, the 3rd rail shoegear was redundant and removed.

 

As built the sets had 750V DC, 3000V DC and several configurations of 25kV AC (because the configurations required varied for ET, LGV, UK HS, French domestic and UK domestic, as an example London - Paris is all 25kV but nevertheless requires 5 en-route changes of power configuration).

 

SNCF later added 1500V DC to a handful of sets (I had an idea it was 7 not 5 but either way it was only a few).

Edited July 6, 2018 by DY444

[Neil]

Personally I prefer them to the new e320 trains as although the unrefurbished sets are very tired now I find the 373's have a much nicer ride quality.

 

Nice to find I'm not alone in my opinion on the ride. I quite like the darker interior of the old sets too. My first trip on one was many years ago between York and Doncaster.

[JDW]

The reason why I call them a British icon is because they are really the first and only high speed services in Britain. I know the are mostly French but some were built in Britain and we all have our different views, and to my eyes they are an icon of Britain. Someone also said they had British parts in them, that's one British part more than the e320's. I don't care about the e320s as to me they are a squeaky piece of metal. The 373's maybe old but they still have life in them and when someone said they had cracks and corrosion on the sides they are referring to the ones that are either stored, out of service, un-refurbished or scrapped. The refurbished ones look better and don't have those cracks. I'm not trying to start an argument or debate that's  just why I think they are a British icon.

 

Kind Regards, Matthew

 

I suspect that underneath the nice new livery and upholstery, the mechanicals are not much better than on the unrefurbished sets.  No matter how many parts you replace, things like the chassis and main structural components will be gradually rotting.  Go look under any car, remove the plastic bits underneath and see the bits of flaky rust and crud that fall out.  Not through bad maintenance, just because they're metal and metal will eventually rot, and to replace everything is just not possible, or becomes uneconomical.  It's something more easily seen with buses - no matter how well they are refurbished, mechanically and structurally they are still pretty much the same tatty vehicle that went into the workshops, unless you go down the preservationist-style route of rebuilding every part, which is simply not viable.  

 

That said, I do like the 373s, they were good trains when I used them in the past, but from a passenger point of view definitely were in need of refurbishment or replacement.

[The Stationmaster]

As built the sets had 750V DC, 3000V DC and several configurations of 25kV AC (because the configurations required varied for ET, LGV, UK HS, French domestic and UK domestic, as an example London - Paris is all 25kV but nevertheless requires 5 en-route changes of power configuration).

 

SNCF later added 1500V DC to a handful of sets (I had an idea it was 7 not 5 but either way it was only a few).

 

Only the 'North of London' Regional Eurostar sets had BR 25kv capability as it required an additional cubicle for interference control circuitry abnd that blocked that access route along one side of the power cars.  This led to them being temporarily 'blacked' by SNCF Drivers.  BR 25kv operation also used a different pantograph as the one for use on ET and SNCF lines developed too much uplift force.

[DY444]

Only the 'North of London' Regional Eurostar sets had BR 25kv capability as it required an additional cubicle for interference control circuitry abnd that blocked that access route along one side of the power cars.  This led to them being temporarily 'blacked' by SNCF Drivers.  BR 25kv operation also used a different pantograph as the one for use on ET and SNCF lines developed too much uplift force.

 

Iirc the non-NoL power cars originally had a BR AC setting on the power selector and the only difference between that and the UK HS setting was the units of the speedometer

[The Stationmaster]

Iirc the non-NoL power cars originally had a BR AC setting on the power selector and the only difference between that and the UK HS setting was the units of the speedometer

 

Agreed - but the switch didn't actually do anything else as they were never equipped to run on BR 25kv.  Only the Regional sets had an ICMU (Interference Current Monitor) - in that extra cabinet blocking the walkway on one side - so were thus the only ones allowed to run under their own power on BR 25kv.