LSWR/SE H15 little brother first

[John Tomlinson]

Sorry! Attached wrong picture - this is the DJH kit as 30475.

 

 

IMG_4374 (2).JPG

 

What an inspiring couple of pictures!

 

Is 30335 in the first from the PDK kit?

 

John.

[Mallard60022]

Spooky that I am just tackling an old DJH H15 that I have had for several years. In mine the centre drivers came 'shimmed' so the flanges are slightly finer than the leading and trailing drivers.

Something I found was that the frames/chassis does not fit snugly fore and aft as on most kits; there is about a mm gap (or enough for movement) either at the front of the frames or the rear at the curved footplate. This affects the body to frame spacer attachment positions with the CHScrew from the smokebox base/rear Nut in the Cab. As I was unsure I did a bit of a compromise before soldering in the rear nut and front Screw in anticipation the the piston throw would be OK (fingers crossed).

If there are any other 'challenges' I might meet I'd be grateful to receive advice, especially as those  loco's from '30368' look so good. 

Can I just confirm that the VG is as on most SR loco's and set for ? admission i.e. crank leans forward at bottom dead centre? It appears to be from the photo's I have.

Many thanks 

Phil

Edited September 30, 2018 by Mallard60022

[hayfield]

Hi,

 

Hope I am not interrupting the flow! I have built a couple of H15's from the DJH kit (SR H15) and from a hybrid PDK kit. I noticed too that the centre and leading wheel flanges foul slightly, I solved this by very carefully easing the flange ( fix wheel to axle, pillar drill on lowish speed and emery paper) on both wheels. There is room to fit all the brake gear, the hangers and blocks are fairly small on the prototype. 

 

I four H15s (30475, 30335, 30333 and 30489) and will shortly build 30491 the loco fitted with a taper boiler to release a spare boiler to reduce works turnaround time for the parallel boilered loco's. 

 

Kind regards and good luck,

 

RichardIMG_4372 (2).JPG

 

 

Thanks for the tip. I got a set of coupling rods from Alan Gibson last week at Scaleforum, as I felt uncomfortable with the one piece ones. Your heads up is spot on for timing,  I have a couple of things on the bench but will soon be able to pick it up again. I will take a bit of care over fitting the drivers especially after your warning

[Mallard60022]

Spooky that I am just tackling an old DJH H15 that I have had for several years. In mine the centre drivers came 'shimmed' so the flanges are slightly finer than the leading and trailing drivers.

Something I found was that the frames/chassis does not fit snugly fore and aft as on most kits; there is about a mm gap (or enough for movement) either at the front of the frames or the rear at the curved footplate. This affects the body to frame spacer attachment positions with the CHScrew from the smokebox base/rear Nut in the Cab. As I was unsure I did a bit of a compromise before soldering in the rear nut and front Screw in anticipation the the piston throw would be OK (fingers crossed).

If there are any other 'challenges' I might meet I'd be grateful to receive advice, especially as those  loco's from '30368' look so good. 

Can I just confirm that the VG is as on most SR loco's and set for ? admission i.e. crank leans forward at bottom dead centre? It appears to be from the photo's I have.

Many thanks 

Phil

Here is mine as of Wednesday 3rd. I have done some more both yesterday and today.

How's yours going if you are still working on it? Not for the feint hearted this one I am finding.

Phil

[N15class]

Looks nice. But to me the boiler looks a little high or is it the angle of the picture.

[Michael Edge]

The DJH kit has the boiler quite a bit too high.

[hayfield]

Here is mine as of Wednesday 3rd. I have done some more both yesterday and today.

How's yours going if you are still working on it? Not for the feint hearted this one I am finding.

Img_0053.jpg

Phil

 

Phil

 

Sitting on my work bench waiting, the new coupling rods have made it into the box. Next up will be to get the chassis working and I might see if a change of wheel diameter is in order

[Mallard60022]

The DJH kit has the boiler quite a bit too high.

Thanks Mike. I wouldn't have realised that; no drawings etc. and I have not looked carefully enough in the books I do have (not the H15/S15 Book I hasten to add). As far as I can tell I have assembled the boiler parallel with the footplate casting as supplied (but fettled of course and a real arse to get straight) so I am accepting your kind comment that the kit is at fault; thanks.

I have not built a loco for quite some time and so my recent bashing of the lump that is an ancient Wills G6 and this, is really practise to get back into knocking some parts together pre doing some kits that I really need to look as good as possible and where, following your's and other advice here, will take a little more care to check the accuracy before proceeding. 

Actually I've just remembered now that the DJH S15  is inaccurate in parts, maybe a similar design inaccuracy............so why did I buy this? Maybe because it was really inexpensive on EB at the time?

Just thought, I wonder why there are never PDK kits on EB? They are probably too good a quality, rather like those kits of yours.

Good luck John with yours. I am glad I found this little thread as it has been of great help.

Phil

[hayfield]

Phil

 

Looks like both of us like eBay bargains, I have a copy of Russells Pictorial History of SR Locos which change hands at quite reasonable prices, also with the kit was a mag build review (June 1982) of the kit .

[Mallard60022]

The DJH kit has the boiler quite a bit too high.

I've just gone and checked my pics; yes at least 2mm by the look of the distance between top of Deflectors and handrails. I thought that was my kn0bs being at the wrong angle, however I had checked them really carefully.

 

Hey ho. Look before one leaps eh?

ATB

Phil 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Mallard60022

[DavidB]

Still looking good though - I really like the cylinder/bogie/running plate relationship. Looks just right in the Urie built-to-last-forever-from-armour-plating style.

 

David

[Mallard60022]

This looks better does it not? £118 for what you get and I have not checked that; not wheels or motor of course.

Problem is, having now looked at this, I want to get one................................................

[hayfield]

I've just gone and checked my pics; yes at least 2mm by the look of the distance between top of Deflectors and handrails. I thought that was my kn0bs being at the wrong angle, however I had checked them really carefully.

Img_0054.jpg

Img_0055.jpg

 

Hey ho. Look before one leaps eh?

ATB

Phil 

 

Phil

 

Are you going to rectify the issue, if so how?

This looks better does it not? £118 for what you get and I have not checked that; not wheels or motor of course.

Problem is, having now looked at this, I want to get one................................................

 

 

Looks very interesting, what make is it please

[N15class]

Looks like PDK to me.

[John Tomlinson]

Between posts #29 and #35 you've added the boiler handrails. Looking at the later pictures these handrails appear to be be just in line or above the top of the deflectors, which is the same as the PDK model (this looks like the official manufacturers photo). So I'm wondering how wrong you actually are, and whether the fettling you described has at least in part solved the problem? How does the top of boiler distance to top of cab seem, and also the relative position of the front cab windows? Do the tops of the boiler fittings stand above the top of the cab, this would be another test.

 

As far as PDK are conderned, they also advertise the Urie H15 "Chonker"(?), with the mega smokebox. That would be a fun thing to have a model of!

 

John.

[N15class]

The H15 were a mixed bag. But knowing djh the boiler is too high, not long enough. The cab side sheets are probably too tall and not wide enough. The cab front is also too tall if their S15 was anything to go by. On mine I only used the cast boiler modified the rest needed to be scratch built to look anything like the drawing.

 

I gave up with DJH 4mm models none I built were very good. They might build out of the box but not into accurate models.

Edited October 6, 2018 by N15class

[John Tomlinson]

The other thing that strikes me about Mallard's model, is that the running plate appears to sit above the tops of the driving wheels, whereas if you look at the PDK picture, the tops sit above and so are partially hidden. This alone would give the impression of the boiler, and almost everything else, being too high. Forgive my speculative comments, but in view of the other posts made it looks as if this is a case of dealing with errors in the kit by trying to get the relative proportions right, even if the whole thing is, at the end, not quite perfect. 

 

John.

[Mallard60022]

Phil

 

Are you going to rectify the issue, if so how?

 

 

Looks very interesting, what make is it please

Apologies John. PDK as stated  by Peter. I won't do anything to 'my' H15 as I can probably tolerate it and it isn't for public exhibitions.

However if ERNIE comes up I might just get a Chonker for fun

 

The H15 were a mixed bag. But knowing djh the boiler is too high, not long enough. The cab side sheets are probably too tall and not wide enough. The cab front is also too tall if their S15 was anything to go by. On mine I only used the cast boiler modified the rest needed to be scratch built to look anything like the drawing.

 

I gave up with DJH 4mm models none I built were very good. They might build out of the box but not into accurate models.

Bit OT but I have popped together a couple of DJH ER Pacifics and one was 'finished' by Tony Wright and painted by Mr Rathbone and they looked pretty good. The Rathbone paint job adorns Little Bythem so some DJH loco's must come up to scratch.

My problem is not knowing enough about the actual loco's and just forgetting to really research the things due to my increasing forgetfulness.

However i really like soldering lumps together and my next effort will probably be a Finecast Arthur just because I can. It will probably look like a lump compared to my Hornby examples, but I bet it will pull more stock if I need it to!  

If I were to say that I appear to have a spare set of Romfords for an Arthur, would anyone be interested?

Also, the PDK range is good IMO and certainly their S15 (have one from pre Hornby release) is very good IMO.

Phil

[Mallard60022]

The other thing that strikes me about Mallard's model, is that the running plate appears to sit above the tops of the driving wheels, whereas if you look at the PDK picture, the tops sit above and so are partially hidden. This alone would give the impression of the boiler, and almost everything else, being too high. Forgive my speculative comments, but in view of the other posts made it looks as if this is a case of dealing with errors in the kit by trying to get the relative proportions right, even if the whole thing is, at the end, not quite perfect. 

 

John.

Good comments there John. The kit is obviously not quite dimensionally correct and the frames were also badly engineered in that the centre drivers with this were supplied as, or had been shimmed by the previous owner of the kit otherwise, as mentioned sometime back by John I think, the front and centre wheels would touch. If my putting this together from the box with only slight adjustment shows others that this is not the H15 to purchase or build without considerable scratching, then that is a benefit as far as I'm concerned. 

Phil

[N15class]

Apologies

 

 

Bit OT but I have popped together a couple of DJH ER Pacifics and one was 'finished' by Tony Wright and painted by Mr Rathbone and they looked pretty good. The Rathbone paint job adorns Little Bythem so some DJH loco's must come up to scratch.

My problem is not knowing enough about the actual loco's and just forgetting to really research the things due to my increasing forgetfulness.

However i really like soldering lumps together and my next effort will probably be a Finecast Arthur just because I can. It will probably look like a lump compared to my Hornby examples, but I bet it will pull more stock if I need it to!

If I were to say that I appear to have a spare set of Romfords for an Arthur, would anyone be interested?

Also, the PDK range is good IMO and certainly their S15 (have one from pre Hornby release) is very good IMO.

Phil

I think you missed the point. I know good models can be made from DJH kits straight out of the box. But the ones I made were dimensionally wrong. I wanted more accurate models. So needed to replace a lot of parts. The trouble is it takes as much effort to produce an inaccurate kit as it does an accurate one. I also know there are compromises to make when designing kits. For me there were too many dimensional errors in their 4mm kits. Edited October 6, 2018 by N15class

[DCB]

The H15 were a mixed bag. But knowing djh the boiler is too high, not long enough. The cab side sheets are probably too tall and not wide enough. The cab front is also too tall if their S15 was anything to go by. On mine I only used the cast boiler modified the rest needed to be scratch built to look anything like the drawing.

 

I gave up with DJH 4mm models none I built were very good. They might build out of the box but not into accurate models.

A 1924 H15 is on my wish list, OK it will start as a Triang N15 probably with a steradent tube as a boiler and Hornby Dublo R1 chassis with City cyinders.  However that Djh looks suspiciously like a cross between 1914 (low running plate) and 1924 (High running plate) H 15s.   I think Mallards model has the coupled wheel chassis/ cylinders too far forward as the chimney and cylinder centre line should coincide, however I believe the bogie centre line was forward of the chimney centre /cylinder centre. With so little clearance under the metal running plate 23mm drivers might look better than 24mm

[Mallard60022]

A 1924 H15 is on my wish list, OK it will start as a Triang N15 probably with a steradent tube as a boiler and Hornby Dublo R1 chassis with City cyinders.  However that Djh looks suspiciously like a cross between 1914 (low running plate) and 1924 (High running plate) H 15s.   I think Mallards model has the coupled wheel chassis/ cylinders too far forward as the chimney and cylinder centre line should coincide, however I believe the bogie centre line was forward of the chimney centre /cylinder centre. With so little clearance under the metal running plate 23mm drivers might look better than 24mm

That's an interesting comment as the Steam Pipes are fitted exactly where the holes in the footplate were positioned and I had not even thought to check their position. As the kit was it was almost impossible not to have the frames as they are due to the 'fit', and the cylinder support piece fits inside the frames (in a T shape) so is where it is! However I think the cylinders could have been forced a little further back (say0.5mm) as the fittings for those on the stretcher are just two lumpy grooves without a machined fit!

Smaller wheels on this kit would only enhance the sitting too high appearance as well. More evidence that this kit's dimensions are 'off'. 

Now I accept that my building may not be great but I have to say that without a scale drawing it would be hard to see any of the errors unless one was familiar with the locomotive from other sources (or life experience of course). At least the LNER/ER boys have the Isinglass series and they are invaluable.

PDK is the way (and I don't even have 'interests' in their Company  )

Phil

[Mallard60022]

I think you missed the point. I know good models can be made from DJH kits straight out of the box. But the ones I made were dimensionally wrong. I wanted more accurate models. So needed to replace a lot of parts. The trouble is it takes as much effort to produce an inaccurate kit as it does an accurate one. I also know there are compromises to make when designing kits. For me there were too many dimensional errors in their 4mm kits.

Nope, I got that first time around and the S15 has been discussed at length on RMW over the years. I was just mentioning some things they do that are OK. It is the 'innocent/ inexperienced' like me that get caught out with dimensions that are incorrect. 

Phil

[John Tomlinson]

I've just been playing with my train set, and took a look at my Hornby N15's and S15's. I don't as yet have any kit built SR locos, but have to say that with full detailing and the odd tweak I'm very taken with both these RTR products.

 

Interesting, but perhaps not surprising, that both these types have the front and middle drivers almost touching, so the issue of wheel size must have been around for all this loco "family" ever since someone thought to make a model.

 

Just out of interest, has anyone experience of turning a Maunsell S15 into one of the Urie examples with stepped running plate?

 

John.

Edited October 7, 2018 by John Tomlinson

[LSWRmodeller]

I can readily sympathize with folk trying to build an H15 due to the wheelbase of the front coupled wheels. I have no experience of either the DJH or PDK kits but I have attached some picture of my scratchbuilt model of 330, which was one of five (330-335) rebuilt by Urie from Drummond F13’s, which had an 8’1” rear coupled wheelbase. As far as I am aware there has never been a kit for this particular variant. My model is 4mm scale and built to EM gauge out of a mixture of plasticard brass and whitemetal plus an SEF tender kit. I have cheated inasmuch I have stretched the front coupled wheelbase to 26mm rather than 25mm and used Markits wheels intended for a Black 5 which are the right size but only have 19 spokes rather than 20 as on the prototype. In P4 you could probably get away with the correct wheelbase using Gibson wheels. With regard to drawings all prototypes are covered in the April/May 1994 edition of Modellers Back Track magazine, albeit the drawings are 3mm/1ft so need rescaling for 4mm.