What am I doing wrong? Fox transfers

[chuffinghell]

I have followed the instructions to the letter

 

Warm water with a drop of washing up liquid

Applying a gloss coat 24 hours prior to adding the transfers

 

but I'm still getting a little silvering

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

should I use microset and/or microsol too? or Humbrol decalfix?

 

Chris 

[richard i]

I use transfix, nothing else, just dab it on the transfer, dab some more on the surface, slide transfer on. Job done, no slivering.

Richard

[lapford34102]

Applied to a matt or gloss surface?

 

Gloss or gloss varnished surface is the ideal.  (Rough) matt surface increases chances of silvering.  Using Microsol/set; Decsalfix; Mr Softer can help.

 

Applying with thinned PVA or Kleer will also help.

 

I'm sure we can all add even more advice but some idea of what transfer onto what object would help.

 

Stu

[chuffinghell]

Applied to a matt or gloss surface?

 

Gloss or gloss varnished surface is the ideal.  (Rough) matt surface increases chances of silvering.  Using Microsol/set; Decsalfix; Mr Softer can help.

 

Applying with thinned PVA or Kleer will also help.

 

I'm sure we can all add even more advice but some idea of what transfer onto what object would help.

 

Stu

 

Stu

 

Its "GREAT WESTERN" lettering on a flat surface that has had a coat of Humbrol gloss clear applied prior to adding the transfer

 

Chris

Edited December 19, 2018 by chuffinghell

[ROSSPOP]

Fox transfers DO NOT like micro set/sol they disintegrate !!

 

How do I know ??????

 

Sounds like Transfix might work but test first.

 

you do need a gloss surface and then firm even pressure over the transfer.

 

I spray or hand paint gloss varnish just where the transfers are to go, but leave the varnish to dry at least 2 days ( I only use enamels) and then  a nice satin varnish to finish.

 

AVOID all Humbrol varnishes.  Railmatch and Phoenix are fine.

 

John

 

 

John

[chuffinghell]

Fox transfers DO NOT like micro set/sol they disintegrate !!

 

How do I know ??????

 

Sounds like Transfix might work but test first.

 

you do need a gloss surface and then firm even pressure over the transfer.

 

I spray or hand paint gloss varnish just where the transfers are to go, but leave the varnish to dry at least 2 days ( I only use enamels) and then  a nice satin varnish to finish.

 

AVOID all Humbrol varnishes.  Railmatch and Phoenix are fine.

 

John

 

 

John

 

Thanks John

 

I will avoid mircoset/mircosol

 

Unfortunately the Humbrol Clear has already been applied to give a gloss finish prior to applying the transfers, it's the thin one similar to Kleer

 

I've not had this issue with Railtec transfers but unfortunately they don't do the "GREAT WESTERN" livery

 

Guess I'm basically stuffed

 

Chris

 

Additional - I have not applied any varnish of any type over the transfer

Edited December 19, 2018 by chuffinghell

[MikeTrice]

Fox transfers DO NOT like micro set/sol they disintegrate !!

 

Recently used MicroSet on Fox with no problems.

[ROSSPOP]

Hi Chris

 

I prefer to use Fox transfers , but despite following all my above rules, I get a silvering episode.......

 

 

Try as I might I could`nt get Fox coach lining to stay in place on gloss finish, tried microset& sol and they fell apart. I did have some Transfix but did`nt use.

 

I used HMRS pressfix linig instead which is  yellow/black rather than gold/black.... hey ho !!!

 

The other GWR roundels look fine ........ its just this  rogue one on a two coach set

 

I also discovered that Testors Dullcote destroys transfers as well....

 

 

John

[lapford34102]

 

Guess I'm basically stuffed

Maybe, maybe not.

Get a smallish clean wet paintbrush and being very careful see if the decal will "lift" if you work the brush around the the edge. If so get some water (or Microset or very thin PVA) and tamp it down again. Piece of sponge can be a better alternative to kitchen tissue and the like.

If it's a bubble that's the problem prick with pin and put some water on.

 

At the risk of causing upset if you read the many threads on here about applying decals you'll read about using A, B or C and not using X, Y or Z. By all means make a mental note of them but my advice is find your own way through. Decal applying is as much an art as a science.

Let us know how it goes.

Stu

[chuffinghell]

I had considered HMRS pressfix but I like the ability to move decals around to get them lined up which I assume is difficult with pressfix?............especially a decal made up of individual lettering

 

I've used methfix before but I found the process a little messy

Edited December 19, 2018 by chuffinghell

[dj_crisp]

I use Carr's transfix on a gloss painted finish.... or if i'm renumbering just remove the factory applied satin varnish. If I'm being lazy I quite often use Hornby's Clear first and my preferred varnish is railmatch satin.... still can't seem to spray precisions ready mixed varnish to produce a nice finish.

 

Funny that I've not had any problems with fox transfers but have with Railtech.

 

Fox transfers are very thin so be careful. I've also abandoned their suggestion of warm water with washing up liquid.... the transfix was much more effective

 

hope this helps

Will

 

P.S. Does anyone have a good finish with recisions ready mixed varnish? If so what pressure do you spray at?

[micklner]

I had considered HMRS pressfix but I like the ability to move decals around to get them lined up which I assume is difficult with pressfix?............especially a decal made up of individual lettering

 

I've used methfix before but I found the process a little messy

Always measure the model and line up dry with Pressfix version. When 100% happy then wet the tissue, don't touch until the tissue lifts without any pressure. If any are out of line they can be moved slightly using a wooden cocktail stick pushing along the edge only, using a steel ruler as a guide.

 

I avoid Methfix a real pain to use.

[Guy Rixon]

A while back I had a bad experience with Fox transfers and varnish and asked them what varnish they recommend. They said "we only recommend RailMatch or Phoenix Precision products. We do not feel it appropriate for us to discredit Humbrol paints but we have found that these are not suitable for use with our transfer items." 

 

chuffinghell: how are you rubbing down your transfers? The silvering is air bubbles and the point of the gloss varnish is not so much that bubbles can't form but that they can be squeezed out under pressure. Squeezing out the bubbles doesn't work well when they are trapped in the cusps of a matt surface. I general press my waterslide transfers into place with a cotton bud. If I have a large, multi-character transfer I sometimes rub over it with a ball-ended burnisher to reduce the chance of bubbles. For small, single characters, the chance of displacing them is too great to allow much rubbing down, but these cases tend not to silver anyway.

[chuffinghell]

....how are you rubbing down your transfers? The silvering is air bubbles and the point of the gloss varnish is not so much that bubbles can't form but that they can be squeezed out under pressure. Squeezing out the bubbles doesn't work well when they are trapped in the cusps of a matt surface. I general press my waterslide transfers into place with a cotton bud. If I have a large, multi-character transfer I sometimes rub over it with a ball-ended burnisher to reduce the chance of bubbles. For small, single characters, the chance of displacing them is too great to allow much rubbing down, but these cases tend not to silver anyway.

That might be the problem as I don't rub them down, I just wick away the surplus water.

 

I assumed that rubbing over the transfer would move it around

Edited December 20, 2018 by chuffinghell

[chuffinghell]

I'll be honest, it's really getting me down.

 

It's like stumbling at the last hurdle, maybe I should just give up and stick to RTR locos

[railtec-models]

It's perhaps inevitable that a niche product and method used successfully by one modeller may yield different results when used by another, particularly to begin with. I may know how to drive my car to my favourite photographic spot in record time, but it wouldn't be the same experience (or as quick) if I tried driving a different car the same way - until I got used to it. Naturally I may prefer the merits of one over the other, but the point is that I think there needs to be some consideration when we make blanket statements about X not working with Y, or simply saying X doesn't work at all - particularly if the manufacturer hasn't even been approached or given a chance to respond when the fact may simply be that we're either just not used to the product, not using it quite as directed, or there being something unique to our own method causing an undesired result. Case in point c.f. posts 5 & 7 above. I did try hand-braking the Bugatti round the hairpin bend near me (as that's what had worked well in my previous vehicle), but unfortunately stacked it on the first attempt into a cluster of OAPs at the bus stop. Naturally I went on to the Bugatti forum to let folks know that they should stick to driving Hondas

I personally think Chris is asking a perfectly legitimate and brilliantly worded opening question btw, and it's exactly why we have forums, but my concern is when newcomers misinterpret negative individual experiences portrayed (intentionally or not) as fact, particularly if there's no explanation or info. There's a subtle but extremely significant difference between, "What am I doing wrong" vs "I had issues with product X [and therefore so will you]" - and the latter can have an impact on the very organisations that support our hobby.
 

Chris - don't let it get you down. Hobbies are to be enjoyed. I'm delighted that you've been using Railtec bits to great effect and I'm sorry that the Great Western branding isn't something that's currently available, but hopefully with a little bit of practise and perseverance you'll be able to get a good result with one of the others for this piece.

Edited December 22, 2018 by railtec-models

[Guy Rixon]

That might be the problem as I don't rub them down, I just wick away the surplus water.

 

I assumed that rubbing over the transfer would move it around

 

Sometimes rubbing a transfer moves it, sometimes not. If it does move, then it can be moved back, because there's clearly a film of liquid underneath. Possibly, transfers with trapped bubbles move more easily because the glue of the transfer is being held away from the surface, and these might be the ones that peel off easily too. It's also possible that deliberately sliding the transfer around by a few millimetres can release the bubbles without rubbing, but I haven't checked that systematically.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Guy Rixon

[dj_crisp]

I'll be honest, it's really getting me down.

 

It's like stumbling at the last hurdle, maybe I should just give up and stick to RTR locos

 

You'll get there! No need to get you down as the next time you have a go it'll be a bit easier than the last time. I haven't yet done a model that hasn't got something wrong with it... adds to the character of it And by the end you'll have a model that's much more personal than RTR.

 

Good tip on the cotton bud. I use a fresh one and work from the centre of the transfer outwards... but be gentle! Also helps soak up excess liquid.

 

Cheers

Will

[blueeighties]

Hi Chris. It can be slightly frustrating at times, as we discover and become comfortable with unfamiliar products and techniques. Did you get sorted with your issue?

[chuffinghell]

Hi Chris. It can be slightly frustrating at times, as we discover and become comfortable with unfamiliar products and techniques. Did you get sorted with your issue?

 

I've put that project to one side whist I concentrate on a number of others, I'm sure I'll get it sorted in the end

[blueeighties]

I've put that project to one side whist I concentrate on a number of others, I'm sure I'll get it sorted in the end

Feel free to pm me when you get back to it if you need any help.

[Kubes]

You'll get there! No need to get you down as the next time you have a go it'll be a bit easier than the last time. I haven't yet done a model that hasn't got something wrong with it... adds to the character of it And by the end you'll have a model that's much more personal than RTR.

 

Good tip on the cotton bud. I use a fresh one and work from the centre of the transfer outwards... but be gentle! Also helps soak up excess liquid.

 

Cheers

Will