RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2019 HI all, OK - currently in the process of building some fiNetrax points and also working out how to power them. All of the solonoid types are out as they are far to abrupt in the way they operate and smash tiebars etc as a result. Tortoise or similar are out as well - due to the limited underboard height that is available (30mm). For motorised points this takles me to Servo type mechanisms. Plan, (if can be made to work) will be to use mini sservos in brackets under the board. Problem is that there do not seem to be horizontal mounts available at a reasonable price (compared to vertical mount types). Does anyone know of any of the horizontal type at a reasonable price? THanks Phil H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetheroad Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Look at these, Micron Radio Control specialises in RC but as far as I understand, a servo is a servo and as long as the correct voltage is applied the control signal is the same http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/servo.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriank Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Problem is that there do not seem to be horizontal mounts available at a reasonable price (compared to vertical mount types). Does anyone know of any of the horizontal type at a reasonable price? THanks Phil H Dave at Megapoints uses aluminium channel. Have a look at the video on the Megapoints site. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 The Signalist servo point motors are about 40mm high. They fit in the same footprint as a Peco PL10 solenoid on a PL9 or PL12 base and have the provision for two microswitches for end position feedback or frog switching. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2019 Their base looks good, shame they don’t do those separately, as I don’t need servos and I’m not paying £11 a throw. I use the Megapoints boards with aluminium channel as per Dave’s recommendation. The boards are great and the mounting’s not bad. The servos can move in the channel, but I admit I’ve just used an interference fit, and because the motion of the actuation rod is an arc you can find some stock clips the top of the rod. Dapol silver bullets and Megafrets are bad for it. I’ve not found any mounts I like enough at a price I want to buy 50! You can obviously set the motors up in such a way that the rod is ‘high’ when furthest from the rail. I lacked that forethought. I’ve not looked at the Finetrax points too closely, are you using a secondary tie bar under the board? May mitigate the ‘arc’ motion if the actuation rod is below board level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 The Signalist servo point motors Nice. Source? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Nice. Source? Peedie Models https://www.peediemodels.com/proddetail.php?prod=SB1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2019 Slightly cheaper from Coastal DCC, albeit not in stock. I see they do also do the mount on it's own, still £8 though. Not sure I can stomach £400 to change! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) Nice. Source? Manufacturer's website is http://signalist.co.uk/index.html but some of the links are broken/wrong. Edited January 9, 2019 by Crosland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) Does anyone know of any of the horizontal type at a reasonable price? THanks I metre of allumnium angle from B&Q and you can make a lot of mounts for pennies. See example here, https://youtu.be/f4MGyCEL5XA and https://youtu.be/_4T8xw0ibvc Regards Keith PS, Someone seems to have added a soundtrack to my videos, I never heard that before! Edited January 9, 2019 by Grovenor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2019 That's a neat tie bar mechanism you're using, is that homemade? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2019 See also: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133913-burton-on-trent-south-some-progress/&do=findComment&comment=3346777 Where Ian (ISW) is using the aluminium channel technique and has some great construction drawings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) That's a neat tie bar mechanism you're using, is that homemade?The grey plastic parts are from an Exactoscale tortoise adapter which was to hand. Not worth buying them specially though as its easy to duplicate with styrene sections. I agree that the use of channel to mount servos works well but will be a very tight fit in 30mm. Using the system I illustrated only takes about 12mm depth. It was tried out specifically for a similar request a coupke of years ago. Regards Edited January 9, 2019 by Grovenor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted January 11, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2019 Hi all, Thanks for the pointers and links. Now sorted with Servo Mounts! Just need the servos and microswitches and operating switches! The list seems endless! Grows longer every time I look at how to do things. Anyway - more as I progress things. Thanks Phil H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Solly Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 And if you didn't want to use servos, then these top mounted units may do the trick Cobalt SS https://www.dccconcepts.com/product-category/the-cobalt-collection/cobalt-point-motors/cobalt-ss/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted January 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2019 SG90 9g servos are the ‘standard’ choice, buy from China via Ali Express and you can pay around £1 each, but they’ll take a while. UK sellers charge up to £6 or £7 for exactly the same item. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted January 13, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2019 SG90 9g servos are the ‘standard’ choice, buy from China via Ali Express and you can pay around £1 each, but they’ll take a while. UK sellers charge up to £6 or £7 for exactly the same item. Hi there, Yes - seen the same situation on prices. Agreed 9g Servos are a standard but still looking and not sure, but think will be bought from China. Thanks Phil H edit - an after thought... Is there a write up somewhere about converting servos to stall motors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 There are fake SG90s on the market, so if you really want an analogue servo (some controllers muck about a bit with digital ones) you probably want to find a reputable source. The fake ones are digital due to being cheaper to make. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2019 Hi there, Yes - seen the same situation on prices. Agreed 9g Servos are a standard but still looking and not sure, but think will be bought from China. Thanks Phil H edit - an after thought... Is there a write up somewhere about converting servos to stall motors? I think there are quite a few threads on RMweb about using servo's as stall motor devices. I have used them like this in a few different ways, generally called 'hacking servos', but this is one configuration that I did a thread on; http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112916-hacked-servo-point-control/ This version has the advantage that the switch controls/limits the travel and also switches the crossing polarity but aren't what some people like of really slow motion as it needs a minimum voltage for the servo to have the power to move the switch so moves quite fast. But still gentle enough to work 2FS pointwork tie-bars without breaking them. The key is in choosing the size of the steel acutating wire for the length needed, whether the acutator needs to go through a deep baseboard etc. I find steel piano wire the best type because thinner stuff will bend quite easily yet retain it's spring tension even if set in a very bent position for a long time. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Is there a write up somewhere about converting servos to stall motors? Not exactly a stall motor but.... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96929-no-stall-servo-point-motor-servo-hack/?hl=%2Bservo+%2Bhack Then there is this, but I have not got very far with it http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/139521-load-sensing-point-motors/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 You can join MERG and get 3D printed servo mounts cheap Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted January 14, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2019 HobbyKing is a cheap source of servos, and quick delivery from warehouses around the world too. I usually go for HK15168 as a straight analogue SG90 replacement. Some people prefer metal geared ones. Digital servos carry on trying to keep the last position even if the control pulses are switched off, where analogue ones stop trying, and friction in the gear train, etc. is used to keep it in place. Several servo controllers for model railway points now switch off the pulses after a second to cut down on servo 'chatter' (and current draw/heating) after the point has been thrown. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Hi all, Thanks for the pointers and links. Now sorted with Servo Mounts! Just need the servos and microswitches and operating switches! Depending on your chosen control method (ie. the panel switches), it may be simpler to use the switch to operate two things at the same time - a servo control board and a relay board. The relay board can switch the frog polarities. Off the shelf relay boards for running on either 5v or 12v DC are available cheaply from Ebay, Amazon, various electronics suppliers, etc.. Depending on the servo control board in use, you may be able to use the same wire from the switch to operate both items. Relay boards may be a lot less hassle than mounting microswitches unless your chosen servo mounting method includes attachment for microswitches, and adequate control of the throw of the servo to operate both tie bar and microswitch. I've used both microswitches and relays, and will continue to use both, picking the one best suited to the situation. - Nigel 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Solly Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Depending on your chosen control method (ie. the panel switches), it may be simpler to use the switch to operate two things at the same time - a servo control board and a relay board. The relay board can switch the frog polarities. Off the shelf relay boards for running on either 5v or 12v DC are available cheaply from Ebay, Amazon, various electronics suppliers, etc.. Depending on the servo control board in use, you may be able to use the same wire from the switch to operate both items. Relay boards may be a lot less hassle than mounting microswitches unless your chosen servo mounting method includes attachment for microswitches, and adequate control of the throw of the servo to operate both tie bar and microswitch. I've used both microswitches and relays, and will continue to use both, picking the one best suited to the situation. - Nigel Nigel, using relays in parallel with the servo ( or even other means of operating the tiebar) assumes that both will work at the same time. I have known solenoids not to move but separate methods of frog switching/ direction indication does , so either a short on the frog or incorrect indication. To me, the only real way to get correct indication / frog switching is based on tiebar movement meaning some form of switching from thet iebar = micro switches Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Nigel, using relays in parallel with the servo ( or even other means of operating the tiebar) assumes that both will work at the same time. I have known solenoids not to move but separate methods of frog switching/ direction indication does , so either a short on the frog or incorrect indication. If the points are correctly modified for frog switching (i.e. frog isolated and switch rails connected to adjacent stock rails) then a short cannot occur. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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