Wrong Line Working

[melmerby]

Hi all

 

This weekend the Chiltern Line is closed at Dorridge for engineering work.

As a result Chiltern are running a shuttle service between Moor Street & Solihull

However there isn't a trailing crossover at Solihull and the train returns to Tyseley "wrong line"

(AFAIK it doesn't have bi-directional signalling)

 

How would that work?

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[The Pilotman]

I’m not familiar with the layout in the area you’re referring to but there used to be a procedure called something like “working of a single line to the point of obstruction”. I suspect that, or its modern day equivalent, might be appropriate to this situation. I can’t remember too much about it as my railway career ended in 2001 and I don’t recall ever having to use it, but someone au fait with current rules and regs should be able to enlighten you.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Western Aviator

[31A]

I’m not familiar with the layout in the area you’re referring to but there used to be a procedure called something like “working of a single line to the point of obstruction”. I suspect that, or its modern day equivalent, might be appropriate to this situation. I can’t remember too much about it as my railway career ended in 2001 and I don’t recall ever having to use it, but someone au fait with current rules and regs should be able to enlighten you.

 

As far as I know that can still be done; I was aware of it being used just before I retired in 2014 - in one instance in very similar circumstances to the above situation (the other time was when there was a failed unit at the end of a single line branch that was normally "One Train Working").

[meil]

It's called single line working and it needs a Pilot man.

[Mike Storey]

Could require a Pilot, but there are circumstances where it does not, particularly if the entire route is track circuited.. See attached for methodology:

 

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/rulebooks/GERT8000-P2%20Iss%204.pdf

[richscylla]

I've only ever seen it once, in the video below. Not sure why it happened:

[melmerby]

Could require a Pilot, but there are circumstances where it does not, particularly if the entire route is track circuited.. See attached for methodology:

 

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/rulebooks/GERT8000-P2%20Iss%204.pdf

AFAIK It is controlled from a workstation at Saltley, all the line has track circuits and MAS.

 

Keith

[melmerby]

I've only ever seen it once, in the video below. Not sure why it happened:

 

Looks like that is the bi-directional track from Bristol TM as it has it's own signal.

 

Keith

[101]

Looks like that is the bi-directional track from Bristol TM as it has it's own signal.

 

Keith

Yes the Up main is bi-directional as far as Bedminster, the signal you see at the end of the platform is the last one and the train will be crossing back to the down main just around the corner out of shot.

That's just a standard move that happens every day, something we did regularly with freight.

[PaulRhB]

Could require a Pilot, but there are circumstances where it does not, particularly if the entire route is track circuited.. See attached for methodology:

 

[]

No sorry module P2 is for single lines, P1 is for single line working on multiple track, the difference is in the Signalling provided.

http://www.ttweb.co.uk/rulebmods/p/Single%20line%20working.pdf

Single line working does require a pilotman although they might not ride with every train if several go in the same direction. When the direction of travel changes the pilotman will travel with the last train as they must be at the entrance to the section. If it’s to point of obstruction the pilotman travels on every train. There are various requirements for extra staff if it relies on groundframes to return to the right line, each situation requires different set ups.

The signals are cleared normally in the right direction once the pilotman has talked to the driver.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I remember using what is now Module P1 part 10 during the commissioning of the Jewellery Line mods at Stourbridge back in 1995. To reduce the amount of bustitution required Birmingham-bound trains were worked up to the station before where we had staff out on-track then returned wrong line. The interlocking was disconnected so all signals were at red and it was inconvenient to cross over to come back. The Pilotman effectively operated as a human 'One Train Working' single line token.

[stadman]

Single line working to / from point of obstruction.

Would apply on a double line if obstructed as only one could be used.

[Mike Storey]

No sorry module P2 is for single lines, P1 is for single line working on multiple track, the difference is in the Signalling provided.

http://www.ttweb.co.uk/rulebmods/p/Single%20line%20working.pdf

Single line working does require a pilotman although they might not ride with every train if several go in the same direction. When the direction of travel changes the pilotman will travel with the last train as they must be at the entrance to the section. If it’s to point of obstruction the pilotman travels on every train. There are various requirements for extra staff if it relies on groundframes to return to the right line, each situation requires different set ups.

The signals are cleared normally in the right direction once the pilotman has talked to the driver.

 

Of course, you are right. I looked at both and have operated both many times (as Pilotman), before they were called P1 and P2! Brain fade.

[Edwin_m]

I think they used this during the Nottingham blockade in 2013 when a few trains were allowed into the station from the east while the rest of the layout and all the signalling was out of use.  Something similar may have happened during part of the Derby blockade too. 

[big jim]

i've done it on the bidston line with a passenger service, picked up the pilotman at shotton, worked through to upton in the correct direction then returned "bang road" to dee marsh where we crossed back over to the correct line via a position light (where the handsignaller was waiting to signal us back to the right line)

[PaulRhB]

Of course, you are right. I looked at both and have operated both many times (as Pilotman), before they were called P1 and P2! Brain fade.

Thought it might be Mike The amount of changes has those of us cursed with keeping current spinning too!