Advice requested for starting out in narrow gauge

[south_tyne]

12 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Has anyone mentioned Gn15 as an option?

 

16.5mm gauge, to 1:22.5 scale, making use of figures and bits and bobs intended for use with LGB.

 

There are some highly creative models around in this format, although, other than the very, very few Heywood  railways, locomotive hauled narrow/minimum gauge on 15" was exceedingly, vanishingly, incredibly rare in actuality.

 

Gn15 modelling was quite prominent a few years ago but has it slipped off the radar a little? It might just be me not looking in the right places though! There was a specialist forum out there if remember rightly but I haven't seen much about the scale recently.  

 

I would agree that it lends itself estate-based railways, rather than industrial systems. I must admit Heywood-type railways aren't really my kind of thing, too much like a toy set up from my point of view, but I do know they have a huge following and fan club, so I'm probably in the minority. As you mention though, you can draw on a plethora of G scale accessories and supporting products, which could be beneficial. 

 

I would suggest that the OP stick to 09 or, ideally 0-14, if industrial railways are his focus.

 

Or, as a bit of a left-field suggestion, how about utilising 1:32 scale and 16.5mm track?I know Slaters produced some bits and pieces for this scale a few years ago, although I am not sure of current availability and have never seen any of the products in real life. 

 

 

[PatB]

Just to expand on 5.5mm scale for a moment, as I don't think anyone did earlier, it was< I believe, adopted in the late 1950s/early 1960s to allow the production of Tallylyn prototypes with an accurate scale/gauge relationship using commercially available TT gauge track, wheels, mechs etc. With the advent of commercial supplies of 9mm gauge equipment, allowing a similar approach in 4mm scale, it became a bit redundant.

[PaulRhB]

Gn15 is doing ok  one cracking little layout is Berger Hall, Bill posts on NGRM 

 

 

[south_tyne]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Gn15 is doing ok  one cracking little layout is Berger Hall, Bill posts on NGRM 

 

 

 

Thanks Paul! That wasn't meant as a negative comment in any way, it's just I had seen much in the modelling press lately or at local exhibitions. I should clearly open my eyes more! I think one thing is that the scale was often highlighted in the 'Small Layout Scrapbook' and, since its demise, I probably haven't noticed it as much. Apologies for any misconception arising from my comments. 

 

Am I right in saying that it I best suited to portraying estate-type railways, in the style of Heywood, rather than industrial/works systems?

 

On the subject of 5.5mm scale, I always think it is a nice size but it probably suffers from the same issues as 3mm scale. Namely need to make everything from kits and scratch and a perceived lack of trade support (something that is imagined but not really true for 3mm scale. On the otherhand, the desire to be different and unique attracts another group of folk; perhaps those who want to plough their own furrow and go against the grain! 

 

The huge advantage of 5.5mm scale however is the availability of chassis for mounting kit- and/or scratch-built bodies on. With 12mm gauge being used to portray 2' gauge prototypes and 16.5mm gauge for 3' railways there are a plethora of mechanisms available as a basis for you modelling. Clearly this is especially the case for the latter, where there are lots of relatively cheap chassis available. 

 

I suppose all this sums up the wide range of choices available to the OP. I do find that the creativity of narrow gauge modellers normally far outstrips those in more mainstream genres. I think that creativity is a wonderful thing. What I would suggest is narrowing down on a preferred scale first - be that 4mm, 7mm ot one of the larger ones such as 16mm scale - and then taking it from there. When the day comes when I recommence my narrow gauge modelling (I am on a standard gauge hiatus at the moment!), I would be quite tempted to go with 16mm scale and 32mm gauge track. For an indoor layout I think it would have great presence for the type of narrow gauge I am interested in, namely small industrial systems, think Lister locos and rugga skips...... one day when time, funds and space allow. 

 

Anyway, I'll stop waffling on.... Interesting discussion though. 

 

David

 

[BernardTPM]

1 hour ago, PatB said:

Just to expand on 5.5mm scale for a moment, as I don't think anyone did earlier, it was< I believe, adopted in the late 1950s/early 1960s to allow the production of Tallylyn prototypes with an accurate scale/gauge relationship using commercially available TT gauge track, wheels, mechs etc. With the advent of commercial supplies of 9mm gauge equipment, allowing a similar approach in 4mm scale, it became a bit redundant.

That may be so, but the First GEM kits were FR prototypes which would have suited 6mm scale better on 12mm track. The TR stuff followed, chronologically speaking.

[cp409067]

2 hours ago, PatB said:

Just to expand on 5.5mm scale for a moment, as I don't think anyone did earlier, it was< I believe, adopted in the late 1950s/early 1960s to allow the production of Tallylyn prototypes with an accurate scale/gauge relationship using commercially available TT gauge track, wheels, mechs etc. With the advent of commercial supplies of 9mm gauge equipment, allowing a similar approach in 4mm scale, it became a bit redundant.

 

*

See here -

 

http://www.55ng.co.uk./

 

 

CP

[PaulRhB]

5 hours ago, south_tyne said:

 

Thanks Paul! That wasn't meant as a negative comment in any way, 

 

I didn’t take as such David just that you maybe hadn’t seen seen much as it doesn’t seem to get to the mags etc  

 

5 hours ago, south_tyne said:

 

Am I right in saying that it I best suited to portraying estate-type railways, in the style of Heywood, rather than industrial/works systems?

 

Yes and the Smallbrook Studios kits along with some of the Black Dog stock makes a superb start. Others like Bill are bashing those into a variety of bigger Heywood locos too. 

[Nearholmer]

South Tyne mentioned 1:32 scale on 16.5mm in passing, which is a good combination for the scratch-bodger, especially if you like farm railways, since 1:32 is a very popular scale for farm figures, vehicles and animals. It is pretty close to scale for 50cm/20" gauge, which was a genuine, if not massively popular "industrial catalogue" gauge, supplied by the likes of Decauville and Fowler.

 

Equally, 1:35 on 16.5mm (only 4% error for 60cm gauge) is very well provided for in the way of figures, vehicles, and accessories, because 1:35 is so popular with military diorama makers. It is one of the few scales that is well supported by general hobby shops, even the big 'warehouse' style retailers. If you look around, it is possible to find 1:35 plastic kits for standard gauge locos and wagons, only German ones though, so one could create an interchange.

 

Its very simple to knock-up quite accurate models of internal combustion locos in these scales, and Peco supply a kit for a skip wagon, nominally for 0-16.5, but it is quite a big one, so scales out at a more typical size in 1:32/1:35.

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Nearholmer

[south_tyne]

3 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

 

I didn’t take as such David just that you maybe hadn’t seen seen much as it doesn’t seem to get to the mags etc  

 

Yes and the Smallbrook Studios kits along with some of the Black Dog stock makes a superb start. Others like Bill are bashing those into a variety of bigger Heywood locos too. 

 

Thanks very much Paul, that is really useful. I had forgotten about Smallbrook but, having had a look at the website, they do a good variety of kits and bits and pieces. Apologies for asking another question, but do you know whether the Black Dog range is still available? As I said, I am somewhat out of the narrow gauge look, apart from my monthly reading of the 009 News. 

 

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

South Tyne mentioned 1:32 scale on 16.5mm in passing, which is a good combination for the scratch-bodger, especially if you like farm railways, since 1:32 is a very popular scale for farm figures, vehicles and animals. It is pretty close to scale for 50cm/20" gauge, which was a genuine, if not massively popular "industrial catalogue" gauge, supplied by the likes of Decauville and Fowler.

 

 

That's very true. I think I am right in saying that the Britain's range was/is to 1:32 scale. I'm sure some skips could be sourced and diesel locos kit-bashed from various sources and other toy ranges. I always think that 1:32 is a lovely size too. 

 

[PaulRhB]

Black Dog is now available through Howard Martin’s Avalon Line although his website isn’t up and running yet you can email him for details as the website is just his consultancy at present. 

 

Quoted from NGRM

“Anyone wishing to order any items from Avalon Models, Black Dog Mining O scale models or Sidelines Gn15 scale models should now send their orders to Howard. A new website www.avalonmodels.co.uk will hopefully up and running soon.   

In the meantime all orders should be sent to Howard at 

hmartin3611 AT btinternet.com 

or 

sales AT avalonmodels.co.uk.    

The Pepper 7 website should no longer be used to place orders.   ”

[HonestTom]

On ‎30‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 21:41, Nearholmer said:

South Tyne mentioned 1:32 scale on 16.5mm in passing, which is a good combination for the scratch-bodger, especially if you like farm railways, since 1:32 is a very popular scale for farm figures, vehicles and animals. It is pretty close to scale for 50cm/20" gauge, which was a genuine, if not massively popular "industrial catalogue" gauge, supplied by the likes of Decauville and Fowler.

 

Equally, 1:35 on 16.5mm (only 4% error for 60cm gauge) is very well provided for in the way of figures, vehicles, and accessories, because 1:35 is so popular with military diorama makers. It is one of the few scales that is well supported by general hobby shops, even the big 'warehouse' style retailers. If you look around, it is possible to find 1:35 plastic kits for standard gauge locos and wagons, only German ones though, so one could create an interchange.

 

Its very simple to knock-up quite accurate models of internal combustion locos in these scales, and Peco supply a kit for a skip wagon, nominally for 0-16.5, but it is quite a big one, so scales out at a more typical size in 1:32/1:35.

 

 

 

 

Smallbrook also produce a number of locomotives specifically to the 1:35 scale.

[Sturminster_Newton]

IF you choose something simple from the Peco 009/HOe track plans book but are going to have a bash at doing it in 7mm scale using 0-16.5 track then you need to use 21" as the grid spacing.

 

So your 4' x 2' OO9 cofffee table top line will inflate to a banquet table covering 84" x 42" although you may always chop an access/operating well into the centre and reduce the amount of scenic coverage required...

 

 Then you may be certain that what you plan to include will fit; even if you need to move out to a new garden shed to build it...

 

This little observed and acknowledged fact should be upper most in the Tiro's mind.

 

I won't tell you how this important fact dropped like a penny into the empty cash box of my mind.

 

IF you like BIG stuff but insist on cramming it onto a tiny space then O9 is perhaps the only route.

 

A muddle of the Little Hampton Miniature Railway or Wells and Walsingham Railway amongst others are feasible using adapted N-gauge mainline locos. Open Roofed rolling stock is available to inflict on your model residents.

 

To digress slightly.

 

In my younger years and in the days of Tom Cooper, (the man who picked up and ran with the 16mm scale as the one true gauge for garden railwaying) I postulated that 1:12 was the ideal scale to muddle in. Pretty much every commercial gauge currently on sale would find a place from model engineering lines to mainline although I could see a few fraught moments laying 4.75" gauge down the hall lino to emulate the ECML...

 

With regard to 16mm latterly 45mm gauge and 1:12/13th (12th45) has found a niche and in truth would have been so much better to start with than 32mm... c'est la vie.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Sturminster_Newton