313s Causing Chaos on the Brighton Mainline - again

[BWsTrains]

when I read in disbelief, topic after topic on here with similar tales of woe on the general state of UK rail #, I ask myself how did it ever get to this point? 

 

To which (IMO) the answer from anyone remotely in a position of "responsibility" would be, "don't ask me, we're just making this up as we stumble from crisis to crisis". Decent railway systems have long term integrated strategies and vision, very short in supply it seems if the results and reports we read are any measure.

 

In a country with high population density, Long Term visionary investment in Rail infrastructure has not been beyond the grasp or scope of developed (e.g most of W Europe, Japan) and emerging economies but sadly not the UK.

A massive opportunity missed, please feel free to add to my list.

 

Colin

 

# aside from this topic, the list I've read is long;

• ECML Class 800s interference;

• CrosssRail,

• Uncomfortable seating, many times of which just 1 example

• HS2
• GWR Class 800 configurations that don't work with available track passing points
• 45 yr old HSTs with toilets flushing to track and not airtight still in service (BTW that was me griping!);
• Ordsall Chord, all among ones I've seen in the last 2 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[caradoc]

BWs Trains, please do not be misled into what appears to be the standard media (and therefore general public) view that UK railways are universally dreadful whereas those elsewhere are absolutely wonderful. To quote some examples from a single edition (June 2019) of Today's Railways Europe magazine; 

 

Austria: Last two remaining branch lines in Nierderoesterreich to close.

France: Perpignan-Villefranche route remains closed after a level crossing accident in 2017 where six school pupils died. 

France/Luxembourg; Through services disrupted because SNCF trains are not yet fitted with ETCS.

Italy: Three stations on the Roma metro closed due to escalator faults, following an accident in which 24 people were injured.

Italy: Head-on collison between two trains on the single track Milano-Asso route in March.

Germany: Delivery of new ICE 4 high speed trains suspended due to bodywork welding issues.

Germany: New hump yard at Halle only able to handle 800 wagons per day instead of the planned 2400.

Norway: Huge losses on freight operations in 2018 and services cut by 20%.

Sweden: Delivery of upgraded X2000 trains delayed from Autumn 2018 to (at least) December 2019.

 

Because most members of RMweb live in the UK, and therefore travel mostly in the UK, it is only natural that the shortcomings of railways here (and I do not disagree that there are far too many) are discussed extensively, but it does not automatically follow that our railways are therefore worse than anywhere else's, in fact in some areas such as safety UK railways have a better recent record that many other so-called superior systems.

 

[sem34090]

1 hour ago, JohnDMJ said:

I'm just waiting for a 313 to 'gap' on Ford level crossing! One shoe on the level crossing, the other on the subway roof!

 

What fun!!

I'm not sure if this doesn't happen regularly - Certainly I have often seen a 313 departing Ford and, as the shoe on the rear coach comes off the rail (and arcs) before the subway, the unit audibly stops powering briefly before powering on up the bank over the Arun Bridge.

[JohnDMJ]

23 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

I'm not sure if this doesn't happen regularly - Certainly I have often seen a 313 departing Ford and, as the shoe on the rear coach comes off the rail (and arcs) before the subway, the unit audibly stops powering briefly before powering on up the bank over the Arun Bridge.

 

It happens many times daily! However, the distance from the platform's 3 Car stop to the Gap is sufficient for the 313 to build up enough momentum to allow it to coast to the next shoe engagement.

[sem34090]

Ah! 

 

I agree that I would quite like to see one get stuck... It'd mean a MUCH more interesting commute given the fact I get sick on buses...  

[John M Upton]

It happened on the down at Ford one Sunday afternoon a few months back.  Someone forced open a door as it was going across the level crossing, interlock is briefly lost, anchors slam on and she stopped off the juice.  Stayed there until a spare driver could be found and taxied to Bognor to fetch another 313 to give it a shove.

 

Approach to Portsmouth & Southsea Low Level across the crossovers from the down line is another gappable point as well.

[royaloak]

31 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

It happened on the down at Ford one Sunday afternoon a few months back.  Someone forced open a door as it was going across the level crossing, interlock is briefly lost, anchors slam on and she stopped off the juice.  Stayed there until a spare driver could be found and taxied to Bognor to fetch another 313 to give it a shove.

 

Approach to Portsmouth & Southsea Low Level across the crossovers from the down line is another gappable point as well.

Get the short circuiting bar out and use it as a jump lead, not that I have ever done that of course! 

[Not Captain Kernow]

I was thinking exactly the same thing Royal Oak!  Not that I have done it either! 

[Foulounoux]

How dare anyone criticise the beautiful beast that is a 313

 

 

I even once wrote a poem about them

 

.    It was 1976 they were new though ;-)

[Trog]

On ‎23‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 11:44, TheSignalEngineer said:

I think the ones we had on the Euston - Watford DC lines had extra shoe beams added when they moved from the GN to prevent them getting gapped. There were certainly a couple of moves where a 3-car sets could get into difficulties in the Euston area with the as-built configuration.

 

Does anyone else remember the photo of the gapped 501unit beside Watford Power Box on the Up DC with some railway staff trying to push it back onto the con rail?

[roythebus]

I managed to get gapped at Windsor with a 508. somebody had moved the S board, front shoe was on the run-off ramp which of course was rusty, the rear shoe in the gap by the crossover. We tried the "unofficial" method, but ended up coupling the next service train on the back and running up as an 8 car. Never heard a word about it.

 

And yes, the 313/508 will power up straight away after the camshaft resets when juice is restored providing the "go" handle is in the go position, no waiting for software to re-set.

Edited June 24, 2019 by roythebus

[BWsTrains]

On 24/06/2019 at 00:23, caradoc said:

BWs Trains, please do not be misled into what appears to be the standard media (and therefore general public) view that UK railways are universally dreadful whereas those elsewhere are absolutely wonderful.

 

 

Caradoc,

 

Please stick to the facts if you want to refute a point I've made.  I get very frustrated when someone pushes back on a post, presuming to know how I've come to the comments I've made, and worse, doesn't even read the citations I provided or they would have seen the source of my input.

 

If you read my post, nowhere was I citing "The standard media", which I rarely ever see and have no easy access to, firewalls being in place to protect on line rights to access to anything worth reading.

In fact I included 3 links to posts on RMWeb as my example references and not one from "The Standard Media".

 

I was drawing from many reports I've seen in this place including this topic; the moans of the many experienced folk who travel on UK rail and post here as well as my own experiences when back in the UK.

 

Now having got that off my chest, I did happen to catch a headline from the FT today, maybe this is "Fake News" I can't tell.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-48770315

Caledonian Sleeper Highland service launch delayed. I'll leave it to others to verify if correct or not.

 

Colin

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by BWsTrains
added name

[woodenhead]

On 23/06/2019 at 13:56, BWsTrains said:

when I read in disbelief, topic after topic on here with similar tales of woe on the general state of UK rail #, I ask myself how did it ever get to this point? 

 

To which (IMO) the answer from anyone remotely in a position of "responsibility" would be, "don't ask me, we're just making this up as we stumble from crisis to crisis". Decent railway systems have long term integrated strategies and vision, very short in supply it seems if the results and reports we read are any measure.

 

In a country with high population density, Long Term visionary investment in Rail infrastructure has not been beyond the grasp or scope of developed (e.g most of W Europe, Japan) and emerging economies but sadly not the UK.

A massive opportunity missed, please feel free to add to my list.

 

 

But we haven't done this in the UK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-48527308

[rab]

12 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

But we haven't done this in the UK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-48527308

I 'd say we've come close to it quite a few times.

[caradoc]

8 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

 

Caradoc,

 

Please stick to the facts if you want to refute a point I've made.  I get very frustrated when someone pushes back on a post, presuming to know how I've come to the comments I've made, and worse, doesn't even read the citations I provided or they would have seen the source of my input.

 

If you read my post, nowhere was I citing "The standard media", which I rarely ever see and have no easy access to, firewalls being in place to protect on line rights to access to anything worth reading.

In fact I included 3 links to posts on RMWeb as my example references and not one from "The Standard Media".

 

I was drawing from many reports I've seen in this place including this topic; the moans of the many experienced folk who travel on UK rail and post here as well as my own experiences when back in the UK.

 

Now having got that off my chest, I did happen to catch a headline from the FT today, maybe this is "Fake News" I can't tell.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-48770315

Caledonian Sleeper Highland service launch delayed. I'll leave it to others to verify if correct or not.

 

Colin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You criticised UK Rail and compared it unfavourably with elsewhere; I merely sought to redress the balance a little.

 

Added; Fair enough Colin, I fully accept that you have not been misled but simply used as you say 'many reports I've seen in this place including this topic; the moans of the many experienced folk who travel on UK rail and post here as well as my own experiences when back in the UK'.

 

May I ask then on what basis the statement that ,Long Term visionary investment in Rail infrastructure has not been beyond the grasp or scope of developed (e.g most of W Europe......' was made, given the issues I picked up from just one edition of a magazine specialising in European Railways, some of which were IMHO more serious (eg head-on collisions) than anything in the UK. And I also agree that we have far too many problems on our railways here........but we are not alone in that !

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by caradoc
Adding details

[Mark Saunders]

3 hours ago, caradoc said:

 

You criticised UK Rail and compared it unfavourably with elsewhere; I merely sought to redress the balance a little.

 

Added; Fair enough Colin, I fully accept that you have not been misled but simply used as you say 'many reports I've seen in this place including this topic; the moans of the many experienced folk who travel on UK rail and post here as well as my own experiences when back in the UK'.

 

May I ask then on what basis the statement that ,Long Term visionary investment in Rail infrastructure has not been beyond the grasp or scope of developed (e.g most of W Europe......' was made, given the issues I picked up from just one edition of a magazine specialising in European Railways, some of which were IMHO more serious (eg head-on collisions) than anything in the UK. And I also agree that we have far too many problems on our railways here........but we are not alone in that !

 

 

When everything runs correctly no one notice but when it doesn’t you do!

 

Nothing travels faster than bad news!

 

Mark Saunders 

[62613]

9 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

When everything runs correctly no one notice but when it doesn’t you do!

 

Nothing travels faster than bad news!

 

Mark Saunders 

And it's not always the raailway's fault, of course! Early yesterday evening, I was stood on Salford Crescent station for about 40 minutes, observing what was going on (SWMBO was in a concert at Peel Hall, and this was the break between the end of rehearsals and the actual show). At one point, passengers were warned to stand clear of the edge of platform 1, as the approaching train didn't stop; only it did, with the rear coach off the platform. Right in front of me, a couple were banging on the doors, wanting them to be opened. Guard and despatcher come down the platform, opened the doors and explained fairly forcefully why the doors wouldn't  open, and pointing out that there was a fine for operating the emergency stop. Had they boarded the wrong train? Anyway, the train stood in platform 1 for about 20 minutes, while the timetable was completely stuffed for far longer. We all know who will get the blame.

 

Incidentally, that station is quite busy, with 142s, 150s 156s 313s and 350s, several of each in the time I was there.

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, 62613 said:

 

Incidentally, that station is quite busy, with 142s, 150s 156s 313s and 350s, several of each in the time I was there.

 

Took me a minute to figure it out, you mean 323 not 313.

[woodenhead]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48816458

 

And NR putting in a bid to ensure continued supply of rails in the event there is no bidder for the whole company.

 

Evidence of contingency planning, am I correct they also sell rail to Europe from the same facility?

[Fat Controller]

6 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48816458

 

And NR putting in a bid to ensure continued supply of rails in the event there is no bidder for the whole company.

 

Evidence of contingency planning, am I correct they also sell rail to Europe from the same facility?

They send steel slab to Ebange, to be rolled into rail,

[62613]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

 

Took me a minute to figure it out, you mean 323 not 313.

No, I mean 313, the Northern, ex-FCC units, which seem to be on Manchester Airport-Preston and Wigan NW services. I hadn't realised how much they sounded like SR units when they set off. The 323s are on the Piccadilly to Crewe/Alderley/Stoke/Macclesfield/Hadfield services. The unit which made the emergency stop was a TPE 350.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by 62613

[woodenhead]

28 minutes ago, 62613 said:

No, I mean 313, the Northern, ex-FCC units, which seem to be on Manchester Airport-Preston and Wigan NW services. I hadn't realised how much they sounded like SR units when they set off. The 323s are on the Piccadilly to Crewe/Alderley/Stoke/Macclesfield/Hadfield services. The unit which made the emergency stop was a TPE 350.

 

 

Then you mean 319s not 313s