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MarshLane

Drawings for scratchbuilt coaching stock

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Posted (edited)

Evening all,

I was looking to try building a couple of LNER vehicles in 2mm.  My original plan was to use the etches from Bill Bedford (Mousa Models) but an email reply from him has said that he no longer offers 2mm etches.  A search around on the website hasn't revealed any alternatives, so I thought I'd have a go and see if I can draw up some etches myself.  Obviously this needs drawings to start from.  Now I have looked at Isinglass drawings on a number of occasions, but never yet taken the plunge.  They only go to 4mm as the smallest scale, but I thought 4mm was probably ideal as its a simple half every measurement.  

 

My query to those in the know, are they a decent drawing to use for this kind of thing, or are there better options?  Initially I am looking at doing something relatively simple like a Gresley BG (I thought easier with no windows!), but if that works out there are a couple of others including the quad-arts that I would like to recreate.  My idea was to use 2mm Association bogies, as the layout is 2FS.

 

Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Rich

Edited by MarshLane

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Have you thought about approaching one of the 3D printing gurus? There's a chap on this forum who operates under the name of Recreation21 who can knock up a 3D coach at the drop of the hat once he has the drawings to work from.

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Guys,

Thanks for the feedback and comments.

 

1 hour ago, CarriageShed said:

Have you thought about approaching one of the 3D printing gurus? There's a chap on this forum who operates under the name of Recreation21 who can knock up a 3D coach at the drop of the hat once he has the drawings to work from.

 

I had thought about 3D printing the roofs if I did something myself, but no hadn't thought about it from that angle.  I'll look up Recreation21 and investigate that option.

 

 

1 hour ago, BernardTPM said:

Have you tried Etched Pixels?

 

Bernard, thanks, no I hadn't come across them at all.  That looks interesting, thank you.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Brassey said:

What about trying Worsley Works.  although I model in 4mm the also do a lot of 2mm.  They have produced etches for me in the past from my own drawings.  No connection etc...

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/2mm/2mm_LNER.htm

 

Hmm, another good option.  I had looked at their 2mm list before, but it didn't document the vehicle I wanted.  However, it may well be worth talking to them for producing etches, if I do go down the DIY route.

 

Thanks chaps.

 

Rich

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I forgot to follow up last night, is there anyone that has used Isinglass Drawings?  Are they good enough to work from?

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Isinglass drawings are very well liked. Are they 100% accurate? I guess with anything like this there's enormous scope for error, but I don't recall any issues with Isinglass.

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Posted (edited)

Nick Campling's Historic carriage Drawings vol1 is all LNER or consistuent companies' coach drawings. As far as I am aware, many of these are accurate?

 

Best wishes,

 

Alastair M.

 

PS They are all in 4mm. Scale. Agree with posters above - Etched Pixels does some great kits and parts, I haven't tried Worsley Works so far (but have made 4mm GWR kits from WW parts.....) and BH Enterprises also do Thompson's (great coach side etches) and some Gresleys I think.

Edited by A Murphy
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Worsley stuff is basic but good (it's sold as scratch aid, so I don't mean that in a bad way). Here's a 4mm Gresely coach etch:

 

IMG_20190206_131042_01.jpg.0acf6a1f905f54cba371bd98c31e1825.jpg

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Thanks guys,

Much appreciated. The Worsley etches door look nice. 

 

Etched Pixels look to have some very nice bits and pieces and I like their method of work, although there is a message on the front of their website that says "Most 3D print based products will not be restocked after Brexit. Shapeways prices are going up steeply, and that plus the extra paperwork and duty/vat payments plus the outrageous 'processing' fees couriers charge for import processing will make them non viable."  So I'm a little loathe to start getting use to them and relying on them if they are going to stop.  

 

Might be time to start having a draw I think!  At worst, it ends up in the bin.....

 

Rich

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If Worsley Works already has 4mm art work, they will probably be able to produce a 2mm version.

 

 

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Hi Rich,

 

I can't comment on the source of the most accurate drawings. You might only be able to get the drawing you need from one source anyway, but it might be worth checking the drawing against prototype pics to check the overall layout. One source of drawings not mentioned so far is model railway magazines. These often ran series of drawings e.g. Railway Modeller in the 1960's with LMS coaches. The BRMNA website had a list of model railway drawings last time I checked.

 

I drew the artwork for my model of the GSWR restaurant diner, car no. 3 using drawings from Historic Carriage Drawings. I used a spreadsheet to ensure the vertical lines on the panelling were correctly spaced apart and summed to the total length of the coach.

 

Nig H

 

 

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On 23/07/2019 at 17:27, A Murphy said:

Nick Campling's Historic carriage Drawings vol1 is all LNER or consistuent companies' coach drawings. k.

 

I missed that first time around as I have this volume:

 

Historic Carriage Drawings in 4mm Scale. Vol 1: LMS & LNER
David Jenkinson; Nicholas Campling
 

9780711000537_1024x1024.jpg?v=1542914253

 

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9780711000537/Historic-Carriage-Drawings-4mm-Scale-0711000530/plp

 

Richard

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I use a mix of drawings (preferably old ones included so they were drawn by someone who actually saw the thing for real) and photographs. Enough book drawings are wrong (some hilariously bad where the photo next to the drawing shows its incorrect) that you want to check photographs and other evidence. Picking two drawings doesn't work - it just shows who copied which mistake from where! Even official drawings sometimes turn out to be as designed not as built. The Jenkinson/Campling book isn't bad - but there are errors I found.

 

For some of the books the various societies actually keep 'errata' and those can be a great source.

 

My favourite drawings disaster is the BR class 29 diesel. I don't think I've ever seen a drawing for it that passes the 'does it look like the photo' test.

 

I've never gone to 3D printing entire bogie coaches because of the print quality and the prices. What I had a fair bit of success doing was to 3D print a shell (floor, roof, ends and interior as one) and overlay it with etched parts. For one offs I still find it easier to scratch build the shell (sometimes using the old BHE plastic profile bits) and etch the sides.

 

 

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Evening chaps,

 

On 31/07/2019 at 17:55, Nig H said:

Hi Rich,

I can't comment on the source of the most accurate drawings. You might only be able to get the drawing you need from one source anyway, but it might be worth checking the drawing against prototype pics to check the overall layout. One source of drawings not mentioned so far is model railway magazines. These often ran series of drawings e.g. Railway Modeller in the 1960's with LMS coaches. The BRMNA website had a list of model railway drawings last time I checked.

Nig H

 

Nig,

Thanks for that.  Im a little suspicious about using drawings from the model railway press as I know there have been instances where they were wrong, but despite that its another source thats worth checking out.  

 

On 31/07/2019 at 18:21, RLWP said:

 

I missed that first time around as I have this volume:

 

Historic Carriage Drawings in 4mm Scale. Vol 1: LMS & LNER
David Jenkinson; Nicholas Campling

 

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9780711000537/Historic-Carriage-Drawings-4mm-Scale-0711000530/plp

 

Richard

 

Thanks for the link Richard - I shall probably look to acquire that.

 

 

2 hours ago, Etched Pixels said:

I use a mix of drawings (preferably old ones included so they were drawn by someone who actually saw the thing for real) and photographs. Enough book drawings are wrong (some hilariously bad where the photo next to the drawing shows its incorrect) that you want to check photographs and other evidence. Picking two drawings doesn't work - it just shows who copied which mistake from where! Even official drawings sometimes turn out to be as designed not as built. The Jenkinson/Campling book isn't bad - but there are errors I found.

 

I've never gone to 3D printing entire bogie coaches because of the print quality and the prices. What I had a fair bit of success doing was to 3D print a shell (floor, roof, ends and interior as one) and overlay it with etched parts. For one offs I still find it easier to scratch build the shell (sometimes using the old BHE plastic profile bits) and etch the sides.

 

Thanks for that EP (sorry dont know your name!)

I've purchased a couple of drawings from Isinglass, which arrived yesterday - one being the Gresley Quad-Art set which is an aspiration, although a little way down the line at this point.  I must admit, I like your idea of the 3D shell comprising roof, ends, interior and floor, then using etches to create the sides.  I think that is potentially the best way forward at this stage.  I may 'borrow' the idea if you dont mind!    

 

I have started designing a locomotive chassis initially, and am fortunate that I have been able to obtain a copy of the original works GA drawing for the loco class concerned, so first things first, I'll see how that comes out and then take things from there. I'll report back in due course!  Thanks to everyone for their input - much appreciated.

 

Rich

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Alan, and I don't mind in the slightest. I did end up on newer stuff combining the roof ends and floor into one - if you don't do that then add a small bar along the length just under where the roof will go otherwise Shapeways sometimes prints slightly bowed coaches.

 

Alan

 

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