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Imaginary Locomotives

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7 hours ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

Looks a bit like my freelance 0-8-0T Baldwin.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/DSC_0212.JPG.f497e9cfa79f9df114ff7fc5f1f66436.JPG

I built it for hauling quarry trains. 

As photographed it appears to be (craftsmanship/clever) a quarry loco for steeply inclined quarry tracks where the boiler fire-box top has be kept horizontal and covered.

dh

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1 hour ago, runs as required said:

As photographed it appears to be (craftsmanship/clever) a quarry loco for steeply inclined quarry tracks where the boiler fire-box top has be kept horizontal and covered.

dh

 

I think its an optical illusion due to the sloping tank tops? 

 

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This looks like someone's imagination:

s-l1600.jpg

 

BBO class DT1

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16 hours ago, runs as required said:

As photographed it appears to be (craftsmanship/clever) a quarry loco for steeply inclined quarry tracks where the boiler fire-box top has be kept horizontal and covered.

dh

At least it looks like it could do the job I intended.

 

14 hours ago, rockershovel said:

I think its an optical illusion due to the sloping tank tops? 

I think it is. According to my spirit level the boiler is near enough dead straight.

 

10 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I think it looks more like someone took everything they had in their spares box and glued it together.

Indeed it does. 

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Do you think your imaginary locomotive will never be made by a model manufacturer?

Fear not. I give you not one, not two, but three versions of the neverwazzer DRG class 53:

marklin-ho-3302-drg-class-53-borsig_1_a6

 

 

 

900_37024.jpg

 

image.png

 

Courtesy of Maerklin 

 

Edited by melmerby
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Just suppose in the early 1950s the Southern region was looking for 4MT and 5MT class locos particularly for their West of England Services to Exeter, Plymouth and the North Cornwall lines.

Perhaps if they were not willing to accept the new British Rail Standard classes and Bulleid still remained as Chief Locomotive Engineer they may have tried to come up with something using established Southern Railway components and practices.

 

So just imagine the wheels and works from a Bulleid West Country pacific and the excellent medium-sized boiler form the Schools class to provide the power. It could either be a 2 cylinder or a slightly more powerful but heavier 3 cylinder type like its West Country class parent. The Southern railway maverick engineers have retained the Bulleid chain-driven valve gear and perhaps even used the more efficient poppet valve gear, still driven by Mr Bulleid's bicycle chain system. It is hard to tell from the picture.

 

IMGP0086a.JPG.122a86ee0400c9e2e6a78b9a2fc88447.JPG

 

Here we see a test of different tenders, to provide coal and water for the extended range available from a large tender needed for a run down to the far west of England. They are preparing for trials and as a comparison, some time will be spent using the old Sou'western 8 wheeler and the big Bulleid 6 wheeler.

 

IMGP0080a.JPG.769df718e899150843514b4875c87599.JPG

 

Which will be best?

 

Maybe even to be ultra-modern and labour saving there will be an oil-burning example of this loco, always hoping for a handy type that can do everything a Bulleid pacific can but at a much cheaper price.

 

Once the best option is found the loco can be sent away for its final painting.

 

Why does this experiment take place at an out of the way siding far from the notice and control of the national British Railways big wigs? Politics, of course, those maverick engineers of the Southern Region hope to present a coup, a shazam, a new class of versatile and inexpensive loco, a new and proven working “here one we have done earlier”.

 

It could be could the New Skools class or the Bulleid Schools or the BS 1.

 

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Can't help thinking that a more Bulleid-ish cab, perhaps the Q1's, would have been used, possibly with a Q1 style of boiler of around the same dimension as the Schools.  A lighter version of the S15 mixed traffic 4-6-0s that could have been used on the branches west of Okehampton would have been a very useful loco, and cheaper to run than the Pacifics and since the BR 4MT 4-6-0 and 2-6-0 were too heavy for this work it is possible that Eastleigh might have been allowed to come up with it's own solution.  I envisage it with electric lighting including the instrument lighting from the pacifics and a more angular styling at the front.  

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Agree, the Schools cab looks just a bit too small to keep 'right' proportions. Otherwise an interesting idea :)

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10 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Can't help thinking that a more Bulleid-ish cab, perhaps the Q1's, would have been used

 

The Q1 cab would be bang on trend and would match the profile of the Bulleid tender. Perhaps something similar could be carved from the Dapol B of B kit?  I think for the post-war period a simple all-welded boiler would be fine (unless they decided to air-smooth the thing). It does need a proper cylindrical smokebox on a saddle, though, rather than the D-shaped Schools smokebox which is bit antique by this time.

 

All in all it's a really nice what-if and with everything welded might be lighter than it appears, but I think it would struggle to come in at a lower axle loading than a 4MT. Perhaps even Bulleid would see sense and drive the poppet valves with bevel gears.

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15 hours ago, relaxinghobby said:

Just suppose in the early 1950s the Southern region was looking for 4MT and 5MT class locos particularly for their West of England Services to Exeter, Plymouth and the North Cornwall lines.

Perhaps if they were not willing to accept the new British Rail Standard classes and Bulleid still remained as Chief Locomotive Engineer they may have tried to come up with something using established Southern Railway components and practices.

 

So just imagine the wheels and works from a Bulleid West Country pacific and the excellent medium-sized boiler form the Schools class to provide the power. It could either be a 2 cylinder or a slightly more powerful but heavier 3 cylinder type like its West Country class parent. The Southern railway maverick engineers have retained the Bulleid chain-driven valve gear and perhaps even used the more efficient poppet valve gear, still driven by Mr Bulleid's bicycle chain system. It is hard to tell from the picture.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/IMGP0086a.JPG.122a86ee0400c9e2e6a78b9a2fc88447.JPG

 

Here we see a test of different tenders, to provide coal and water for the extended range available from a large tender needed for a run down to the far west of England. They are preparing for trials and as a comparison, some time will be spent using the old Sou'western 8 wheeler and the big Bulleid 6 wheeler.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/IMGP0080a.JPG.769df718e899150843514b4875c87599.JPG

 

Which will be best?

 

Maybe even to be ultra-modern and labour saving there will be an oil-burning example of this loco, always hoping for a handy type that can do everything a Bulleid pacific can but at a much cheaper price.

 

Once the best option is found the loco can be sent away for its final painting.

 

Why does this experiment take place at an out of the way siding far from the notice and control of the national British Railways big wigs? Politics, of course, those maverick engineers of the Southern Region hope to present a coup, a shazam, a new class of versatile and inexpensive loco, a new and proven working “here one we have done earlier”.

 

It could be could the New Skools class or the Bulleid Schools or the BS 1.

 

That's a locomotive that's right up my alley! Well done!

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If Holcroft and Jarvis had been in charge and started with the 9f it can maybe interes some hove ofsprings could have looked.

A three cylinder compound 4-8-0 can do anything a Pacific will do and burn less coal and for smaller jobs a 4-6-0 with either three or two compound cylinders

 

 

3usefull.jpg

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Deleted

 

3usefull.jpg

Edited by Niels

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Apparently Sevenoaks was dressed up in plywood at Eastleigh to be perceived as blindingly fast - but just a tad too late in 1939 :o 

Edited by AY Mod
Copyright images removed
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1 hour ago, Niels said:

Not so sure about these 2.  The 4-8-0 will pull anything a pacific can and might be better starting and on the banks, but it'll not ride as well.  It won't burn less coal, either; even if it burns less coal per cylinder stroke than a comparable size pacific (DoG draughted properly), the smaller driving wheels will increase the amount of coal per mile, and reduce the top speed.  And you can't increase the rear driving wheel diameter because the firebox is in the way.

 

As for the 4-6-0, it doesn't look any more capable than the 4MT 75xxx.  The firebox/boiler/smokebox reminds me of those Canadian 4-4-4s with 7' drivers, which were very fast and successful, and this format might have had a use in short haul fast work with lighter trains.  How about an Oxford-Paddington non stop flyer 80 minute buffet service?

 

As it is, it just burns too much coal, as much as a 9F, and produces too much steam to be economically efficient, and I challenge even the worst fireman to keep the safety valves from lifting once the fire is lit.  The riding looks as if it will be poor for the same reasons as it was on Churchward's counties, and the loco looks unbalanced and top heavy.  She'd certainly raise steam quickly, assuming you put a top feed on it, but what would she do with it?  She's too heavy for anything but main line work, especially with 3 cylinders, and it would've been hard to sell compounding in the 50s or 60s.  The cylinders are big and will do nothing for the already bad riding, though a 3 cylinder compound layout might improve that.

Edited by The Johnster
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43 minutes ago, runs as required said:

 

Apparently Sevenoaks was dressed up in plywood at Eastleigh to be perceived as blindingly fast - but just a tad too late in 1939 https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_ohmy.pnghttps://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/image.png.e99c368ba2d8a9ac6829e1813424a323.png 

a1cd4c3f8cb88e67726881e95b17ba08.jpg

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4 hours ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

I had no idea this happened. This is pretty funny actually.

There must be more than one version of that streamlining as in JH Russell's Southern Locomotives there is a different picture with the raked back cab & windows as in runs as required's model picture.

The windows are still painted on though........

Edited by melmerby
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As a matter of fact it is. Not so much the tanks but inflatable lorries had the windows painted on. 

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Churchward, at the instigation of one of his deputies, trialled one of the Atbara Class with a large round top firebox boiler and a large cab. Apparently the crews hated the big  cab, and it was taken off in short order, and the large boiler wasn't a success either and was replaced a couple of years later. But what if it had been a success? Here's a Churchward County 4-4-0 boiler with the big boiler and side window cab, and I've matched it with a much larger 4,000 gallon Hawksworth tender, as the original 3,500 gallon tender looked out of proportion to me.

County with earlcawdor boiler and bigtender..jpg

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11 minutes ago, JimC said:

Churchward, at the instigation of one of his deputies, trialled one of the Atbara Class with a large round top firebox boiler and a large cab. Apparently the crews hated the big  cab, and it was taken off in short order, and the large boiler wasn't a success either and was replaced a couple of years later. But what if it had been a success? Here's a Churchward County 4-4-0 boiler with the big boiler and side window cab, and I've matched it with a much larger 4,000 gallon Hawksworth tender, as the original 3,500 gallon tender looked out of proportion to me.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/2120986422_Countywithearlcawdorboilerandbigtender..jpg.a9167856ae4bb406b754c44d9116256d.jpg

Cute. I might build something similar if you don't mind :p

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35 minutes ago, JimC said:

Churchward, at the instigation of one of his deputies, trialled one of the Atbara Class with a large round top firebox boiler and a large cab. Apparently the crews hated the big  cab, and it was taken off in short order, and the large boiler wasn't a success either and was replaced a couple of years later. But what if it had been a success? Here's a Churchward County 4-4-0 boiler with the big boiler and side window cab, and I've matched it with a much larger 4,000 gallon Hawksworth tender, as the original 3,500 gallon tender looked out of proportion to me.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/2120986422_Countywithearlcawdorboilerandbigtender..jpg.a9167856ae4bb406b754c44d9116256d.jpg

The Churchward boiler design was the benchmark for efficiency right through to the end of steam, so why would Swindon take a step backwards? Round top boilers are resorted to, purely to fit the loading gauge. The GWR didn't have that issue. Hence why the experiment was short lived. Similarly, the Great Bear was an experiment to ascertain the benefits of a wide firebox. It proved less efficient than Churchwards proven narrow firebox design so was never repeated. Railways having to burn coal of a lesser calorific value than Welsh steam coal had to resort to bigger wider fireboxes out of necessity.

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