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Midland Railway 0-4-2T

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I was doing a google search for pictures of the Earl of Dudley's Manning Wardle 0-4-0 engines when this photo appeared in the results. It seemed to be linked to some Thomas the Tank Engine forum, which I couldn't view, so couldn't find out more. I've looked on the Wikpedia page for Midland Railway locomotives but it doesn't appear to list any 0-4-2 engines at all. I googled Midland Railway 0-4-2T and go no worthwhile results.

 

It looks a nice thing to model and I'm just curious to know something about it.

9EccuF1.png.6ed575f86dc3bdffe3db3f19e230176b.png

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I've seen that photo before, in Summerson perhaps? It might be a locomotive from one of the railways the MR absorbed along the way, like the NWR. It does seem to have been rebuilt with a Johnson boiler.

 

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In ultimate origin, one of three 2-2-2WTs built in 1850 by Fairbairn for the North Western Railway, their Nos. 2 Whernside, No. 4 Penyghent and No. 12 Competitor (Ingleborough had already been taken), they became Midland Nos 157-159 on the absorption of the NWR in 1852. Renumbered 200-202 in 1866 and going on the duplicate list in 1875. Kirtley had them rebuilt as 0-4-2WTs in 1864/5, with 4'8" drivers. Johnson gave them new boilers in 1877-8; I believe that's the condition shown in the photo.

 

No. 201A was at Wigston c. 1885-1892 where it may have been the engine used to work St Pancras-Birmingham through carriage round the Wigston south curve. It ended its days at Coalville; it was withdrawn in 1894. No. 200 worked the Dursley branch in the 1860s and was also at Tewkesbury around that time; c. 1880-1892 it was at Hereford, also on through coach transfer duty; it was withdrawin in 1896. No. 202A was renumbered several times, ending up as 2065A; c. 1885-7 it worked passenger trains between Cricklewood and Gunnersbury, withdrawn 1892. From time to time these engines were hired out to collieries and other works connected to the Midland system.

 

References: 

S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives Vol. 2 (Irwell Press, 2007) pp. 215-216.

E.L. Ahrons, Locomotive and train working in the latter part of the nineteenth century Vol. 2 (Heffer, 1952, reprinted from The Railway Magazine) pp. 83-84.

 

Summerson reproduces a weight diagram of these three engines after their second rebuilding. This gives sufficient dimensions for building a model, in conjunction with the photograph. @Ruston, if you haven't got Summerson and are interested, PM me.

 

 

 

Edited by Compound2632
Spelling of Coalville corrected.
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Thanks for that information. I have no plans to model one for the foreseeable future.

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There was an article by Sid Stubbs on building one of these way back when in MRJ No 81, which included some drawings. Go on! You know you want one!

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27 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

There was an article by Sid Stubbs on building one of these way back when in MRJ No 81, which included some drawings. Go on! You know you want one!

 

... including one showing how to fit a motor in!. He did No. 202A, of which there's a splendid photo in Summerson (and elsewhere). That engine differed (at some period after its second rebuilding) in having a dome with Salter valves on the first ring of the boiler, with a sort of domelet-shaped cover plate on the firebox; it also didn't have the weatherboard at the back of the bunker, with the curvey side-plates; instead the weatherboard was at the front of the bunker, giving a very cramped look. So with such detail differences, who knows what No. 200A looked like!

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9 hours ago, t-b-g said:

There was an article by Sid Stubbs on building one of these way back when in MRJ No 81, which included some drawings. Go on! You know you want one!

I am tempted but there's one Midland engine that I would have to build before it and that's LMS 1601, as illustrated in Vol. 1 of H.C. Casserley's LMSR Locomotives (D. Bradford Barton, 1976). It's also an outside-framed well tank but was built by Manning Wardle's predecessor E.B. Wilson, so interests me by being a Leeds-built engine.

 

Being an 0-6-0WT it would also be more useful and easier to get to run well - 0-4-2s and I don't get on. Making the 0-4-2 pull a useful load would be troublesome as the place where you could stuff weight in is over the carrying axle. Would anyone know of a drawing of this engine?

 

I say Midland engine but I am assuming that's what it is as the book says it was built to a Kirtley design. The aforementioned book also says that 1601 was originally numbered 201 and later 201A, which is the same number as the 0-4-2WT.

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On RMWeb, MrKirtley800 has a model of a Kirtley well tank no 1604 on his layout. Assuming they are the same class, being so close in number, he may be able to help with a drawing. He scratchbuilt his so must have had something to work from.

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17 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

It ended its days at Colville;

 

Many, on finding themselves in Coalville, would want to do the same!

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6 hours ago, Ruston said:

I am tempted but there's one Midland engine that I would have to build before it and that's LMS 1601, as illustrated in Vol. 1 of H.C. Casserley's LMSR Locomotives (D. Bradford Barton, 1976). It's also an outside-framed well tank but was built by Manning Wardle's predecessor E.B. Wilson, so interests me by being a Leeds-built engine.

 

Being an 0-6-0WT it would also be more useful and easier to get to run well - 0-4-2s and I don't get on. Making the 0-4-2 pull a useful load would be troublesome as the place where you could stuff weight in is over the carrying axle. Would anyone know of a drawing of this engine?

 

I say Midland engine but I am assuming that's what it is as the book says it was built to a Kirtley design. The aforementioned book also says that 1601 was originally numbered 201 and later 201A, which is the same number as the 0-4-2WT.

 

5 hours ago, t-b-g said:

On RMWeb, MrKirtley800 has a model of a Kirtley well tank no 1604 on his layout. Assuming they are the same class, being so close in number, he may be able to help with a drawing. He scratchbuilt his so must have had something to work from.

 

No. 1601 was the last survivor of the class of twelve small 0-6-0WT built by Kirtley in 1870/72. With 14'0" wheelbase, they were intended for working in places with sharp curves and most spent their lives at Burton; some spent time at Bristol for the Avonmouth branch and Avonside Wharf. From time to time they were elsewhere - Gloucester, Birmingham, and Sheffield are mentioned. Built at Derby, they were rebuilds of E.B. Wilson and Derby Jenny Lind 2-2-2s built between 1848 and 1856 - the boilers were the principal items re-used, which does seem rather surprising - Summerson does not record reboilering of the 2-2-2s, so the well tanks must have started out with boilers already at least 16 years old. Johnson gave them all new boilers in 1875-78; four were withdrawn in the late 1890s but the rest were reboilered round about that time. Even so, two more went in 1899 and three in 1904, leaving just three to be renumbered 1601-3 in 1907. (The previous numbering history is very complicated - every engine of the class was renumbered at least twice, with most four or five times.) Those last three carried on at Burton until 1920 (1603), 1921 (1602), and 1924 (1601). No. 1601 was renumbered 1605 a couple of months before withdrawal, this being the sixth number it had carried, or seventh if you count its number as a Jenny Lind - 80; rebuilt as 0-6-0T No. 2000, then 213 (1875), 205A (1890), 201A (1897), 1601 (1907), 1605 (1923). (The 0-4-2WT numbered 201 (1866) then 201A (1875) was broken up in 1894, so there's no conflict, just confusion!)

 

These engines should not be confused with Kirtley's large 0-6-0WTs, mostly originally rebuilds in the 1860s, with two survivors at the 1907 renumbering - one @Mrkirtley800's No. 1604, renumbered 1607 in 1923 and lasting until 1928, the other, No. 1600, going in 1921. These two survivors both had 16'9" wheelbase.

 

Ref. S. Summerson, Op. cit.

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2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

No. 1601 was the last survivor of the class of twelve small 0-6-0WT built by Kirtley in 1870/72. With 14'0" wheelbase, they were intended for working in places with sharp curves and most spent their lives at Burton; some spent time at Bristol for the Avonmouth branch and Avonside Wharf. From time to time they were elsewhere - Gloucester, Birmingham, and Sheffield are mentioned. Built at Derby, they were rebuilds of E.B. Wilson and Derby Jenny Lind 2-2-2s built between 1848 and 1856 - the boilers were the principal items re-used, which does seem rather surprising - Summerson does not record reboilering of the 2-2-2s, so the well tanks must have started out with boilers already at least 16 years old. Johnson gave them all new boilers in 1875-78; four were withdrawn in the late 1890s but the rest were reboilered round about that time. Even so, two more went in 1899 and three in 1904, leaving just three to be renumbered 1601-3 in 1907. (The previous numbering history is very complicated - every engine of the class was renumbered at least twice, with most four or five times.) Those last three carried on at Burton until 1920 (1603), 1921 (1602), and 1924 (1601). No. 1601 was renumbered 1605 a couple of months before withdrawal, this being the sixth number it had carried, or seventh if you count its number as a Jenny Lind - 80; rebuilt as 0-6-0T No. 2000, then 213 (1875), 205A (1890), 201A (1897), 1601 (1907), 1605 (1923). (The 0-4-2WT numbered 201 (1866) then 201A (1875) was broken up in 1894, so there's no conflict, just confusion!)

 

These engines should not be confused with Kirtley's large 0-6-0WTs, mostly originally rebuilds in the 1860s, with two survivors at the 1907 renumbering - one @Mrkirtley800's No. 1604, renumbered 1607 in 1923 and lasting until 1928, the other, No. 1600, going in 1921. These two survivors both had 16'9" wheelbase.

 

Ref. S. Summerson, Op. cit.

Thanks for that. My Midland information is quite limited, being more of a GCR type!

 

Early loco history is fascinating and complex, with many locos being rebuilt several times until they were beyond recognition and having multiple renumberings.

 

Knowing for certain which version, with which appearance and number it had is correct for a particular date is a matter for much study and research.

 

 

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You mean one of these? This is the old Peter K kit available from Kemilway from whose website I 'borrowed' the photo....

 

 

1563164283_Kirtleytank.jpg.8deb3347f1541a2574d9f9f12c86099a.jpg

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Yes. With a damp towel on my head and Summerson Vol. 2 in my hand, 219A was one of the "small well tanks" (like 1601), whose first boiler came from a Derby-built Jenny Lind No. 106 of December 1855. It was (re)built as a well tank in March 1871, numbered 1004, but quickly went onto the duplicate list as 2004 in December 1872. Reboilered October 1878, emerging as No. 219; onto the duplicate list again as 219A in June 1883, reboilered again in June 1897 and broken up August 1904. At the second move onto the duplicate list, the number 219 was taken by a 1377 Class 0-6-0T built in that month. I haven't checked exhaustively but I thing this was the only engine to carry the number 219A!

 

I think that the model in the photo depicts No. 219A before the second reboilering - it has the built-up chimney and tall dome. Engines surviving the second reboilering* had reduced-height chimney and dome - this is the condition most often photographed.

 

*There were some fatalities - engines that did not make it to the operating table.

 

Going back to No. 1601, its first boiler came from a genuine E.B. Wilson Jenny Lind, No. 80 of 1848. I seriously doubt there was anything of E.B. Wilson's manufacture by the time it became No. 1601 in 1907! The Midland did have one genuine E.B. Wilson 0-6-0WT, built in 1857, one of three similar engines taken over from the Sheepbridge Co. in 1870 (the other two being Manning Wardles of 1860 and 1864). These engines remained working at Sheepbridge into the 1880s; the Wilson engine, No. 2065, was broken up in 1891, the other two ended their days as 2063A and 2064A at the turn of the century; all had been reboilered.

 

The Midland did also have some pukka Manning Wardles, six Class H 0-4-0STs and one Class M 0-6-0ST. Five of the Class H engines were bought new between 1867 and 1873; the last one together with the Class M engine had been contractors' engines on the Settle and Carlisle, where they had been named Sedburgh and Queen. Most were broken up in the 1890s, the last survivors going in March 1898, by which time they were numbered 2062A and 2066A (like all these small engines, they had been re-numbered several times). They've been discussed before, at which point I hadn't found them in Summerson:

 

All these engines were often hired out to collieries, quarries, and Burton breweries, the MW Class H engines in particular being frequently hired out in the 1880s, details being noted in the Locomotive Committee minutes up to 1889. From then on, the minutes only read "Locomotives loaned - read return" - i.e. the committee had the details in front of them but didn't have them copied into the minute book. So there's an opportunity if you're modelling a midlands colliery or similar in the 1890s/early 1900s... 

 

All this from S. Summerson, Op. cit.

Edited by Compound2632
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9 hours ago, t-b-g said:

Thanks for that. My Midland information is quite limited, being more of a GCR type!

 

 

You know the Great Central had a class of engines designed by S.W. Johnson? Outside-framed 2-4-0 well tanks to boot: Nos. 9, 12, 20, 123, 208-211 built 1860-66 for the MSJ&A services, displaced in 1880-1 by the 12AT class:

 

"The details of their design in the Gorton drawing office had been carried through by the late Mr. S.W. Johnson [...] To the end of his career Mr. Johnson always took a paternal interest in these small engines, and on the occasion of his rare visits to Heaton Mersey [...] he invariably had a good look round one of them, to see how they were getting on."

 

E.L. Ahrons, Locomotive and Train Working in the Latter Part of the Nineteenth Century Vol. 1 (Heffer, Cambridge: n.d, reprinted from The Railway Magazine, 1915), Ch. 2.

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25 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

You know the Great Central had a class of engines designed by S.W. Johnson? Outside-framed 2-4-0 well tanks to boot: Nos. 9, 12, 20, 123, 208-211 built 1860-66 for the MSJ&A services, displaced in 1880-1 by the 12AT class:

 

"The details of their design in the Gorton drawing office had been carried through by the late Mr. S.W. Johnson [...] To the end of his career Mr. Johnson always took a paternal interest in these small engines, and on the occasion of his rare visits to Heaton Mersey [...] he invariably had a good look round one of them, to see how they were getting on."

 

E.L. Ahrons, Locomotive and Train Working in the Latter Part of the Nineteenth Century Vol. 1 (Heffer, Cambridge: n.d, reprinted from The Railway Magazine, 1915), Ch. 2.

 

As Johnson wasn't CME or suchlike, he was never going to get any credit for the locos, which are described in Dow's epic GCR series as being "Sacre's first loco"

 

It is often the case that the man in charge gets credited with the design, or blamed for it if it turns out badly, when so much of the work is done by the staff in the drawing office.

 

But it is a lovely connection and if you peer at it hard enough, you can see a bit of Johnson in the smokebox arrangement. I wonder if he was responsible for the cab door being right over the centre of the rear driving axle, giving the poor crew a big wheel to climb over to get into the cab. They would have been cursing him every time they tripped or slipped!

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Just now, t-b-g said:

 

I wonder if he was responsible for the cab door being right over the centre of the rear driving axle, giving the poor crew a big wheel to climb over to get into the cab. They would have been cursing him every time they tripped or slipped!

 

Rookie error? I bet the MS&L / GC men at Heaton Mersey were far to far in awe of the great man to make any critical remark!

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10 hours ago, wagonman said:

You mean one of these? This is the old Peter K kit available from Kemilway from whose website I 'borrowed' the photo....

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/1563164283_Kirtleytank.jpg.8deb3347f1541a2574d9f9f12c86099a.jpg

Yes, that's it. What an amazing machine! I just love engines with outside frames.

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post-6110-0-19442500-1453752122_thumb.jpgThe drawing I used to build my 0-6-0WT was the Skinley blue print, shows how long ago it was started, plus as many photos that I could find and in the 1960 s  not a lot.

 J.N.Maskelyne, editor of the Model Railway News, published a series of engine drawings which contained a couple of outside framed Midland Locos, an 0-4-4WT and an 800 class 2-4-0.  I bought the drawings and during my most productive time in the 1970s scratch built them.  The 0-4-4 drawing was to 7mm/ft but the 2-4-0 was to some odd scale, I think 8.25mm/ft.  It turned out that they were drawn to fill a page, hence the odd scales.

I was later told that Maskelyne had a very good knowledge of the railways south of London but was a little weak on the Midland.  Having said that, I used to hang on to his every word.  

The rather poor picture above is of the 800 class 2-4-0 on Kirkby Malham turn table

Derek

Edited by Mrkirtley800
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Above, I was expressing some surprise at the longevity of the early boilers - those on Kirtley's small well tanks being second-hand from Jenny Lind type engines built 1848-56 and not renewed by Johnson until the mid 1870s - 20-28 years use. I was reading Ahrons's chapter on the Furness Railway* in which he comments that boilers made of wrought iron had a much longer life than those made of steel. He goes on to say that this is contrary to his expectations from electrochemistry: with copper or brass tubes in contact with the iron tubeplates, the presence of copper ions in the water should accelerate the corrosion of the more reactive iron, which is acting as a sacrificial anode. 

 

*E.L. Ahrons, Locomotive and train working in the latter pat of the nineteenth century Vol. 2 (Heffer, 1952, reprinted from The Railway Magazine).

 

One other point about the small boilers of either Kirtley of Johnson design fitted to all these engines: the transition piece from the boiler cladding to the larger-radius firebox cladding is polished brass (as can be seen in the photo in Rushton's OP) and as far as I can make out from photos, was never painted over, except on those engines that lasted long enough to be painted all-over black.

Edited by Compound2632
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2 articles about the midland jenny linds and the rebuilds into 0-6-0. Model railway news 1948 page 166 (september) and in 1949 p44, a reply to the article in the reader's letter section with a photo of a midland jenny lind

MRN1948-166 MR jennylind.JPG

MRN1949-44 MR jennylind.JPG

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