Wolseley Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 GEM's kit of the Caledonian Railway Cardean 4-6-0 was introduced in, if I recall correctly, the mid 1960s. It was a body and tender kit only, and was designed to fit the Tri-ang B12 chassis. Crude by today's standards, it was a pretty basic kit even in its day, lacking the finer detail of some of GEM's competitors' kits but, at least, it filled a gaping hole in the market. I used to have one, although I have to admit that I more or less destroyed it almost 50 years ago, after a botched attempt to turn it into a Caledonian 60 Class 4-6-0. I recently got hold of two GEM Cardeans for a reasonable price (quite an achievement where obsolete kits of Scottish pre-grouping locomotives are concerned). Neither is particularly well finished, although the actual construction of the kits has been done to a reasonable standard. One of them is a non-runner but, at worst, it can be put right by replacing the motor which, being an X04, shouldn't be hard to find a replacement for (I have a sneaking suspicion that I may even have a spare one somewhere). I will also have to convert them to three rail, otherwise I won't be able to run them on my layout, but the chassis and wiring are so simple that this shouldn't present any problems. Both locomotives are, however, crying out to be dunked in a container filled with paint stripper..... Two Cardeans? Well, I only planned to have one, but when the second one (the non-runner) turned up, hardly anyone seemed interested in it, and I got it for about a quarter of what I have seen them change hands for on eBay. Maybe I'll turn it into a 60 Class. After all, I'm pretty sure that my modelling skills are considerably better than they were in 1970..... I'm not sure when I'll get around to doing anything with them, but here's what they look like: 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 The paint stripper is likely to return them to kit of parts.... A collector (I put mine under the tender on Tri-ang conversions) and swop the insulation to the other motor brush and away they'll go! (It can only be poor electrical contact , a broken wire or, at worst, a dud motor!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 As you say the non working loco could be something simple like a simple short, broken wire or just something very dirty. Quite often I buy not working second hand kit built locos. I start in reverse to try and find the fault With the early Triang chassis quite often the insulating sleeve is perished, I find some electrical wire where the sleeve is about the same size, remove some sleeve from the wire and replace the old perished one, I also clean the communicator and brushes with clear spirit and lightly oil the shaft bearings. works a treat, failing this if it still doesn't work just work backwards to find the fault. I doubt if the motor is broken, unless someone has broken the card brush holder. But replacements are easy to obtain If the painting is really poor, it might be worth taking the kit apart and rebuilding it, they are fairly simple kits and an ideal project for these cold dark nights Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCW Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Wolseley, very well done on the Cardeans! I have a soft spot for George Mellor's kits. As a LNWR modeller in the 1970s, they provided me with a cost-effective introduction to kit-building. Apart from the Prince of Wales 4-6-0, which I suspect might have been stretched to fit a Triang 4-6-0 chassis (B16? - I know little about LNE matters), the LNW kits were accurate in major dimensions, even if devoid of fine detail. I have three in use on my scale railway, and have dug out some pictures which may be of interest. At the least they show what can be done with these kits by a modeller of only "intermediate" skill level. The first is is the "George V" 4-4-0. I built this some time in the 1970s when, inspired by Gavin Wilson's Highland Railway, I was dabbling in stud contact, (remember the Peco stud contact strip - that roll of zig-zag phosphor bronze ?), and it was then fitted with a Marklin skate. The chassis was the Gem white-metal version of the Triang "L1" chassis, complete with white-metal coupling rods, and an X04 motor with coarse plastic worm and gear wheel. Despite, or perhaps because of, these simple specs, it ran beautifully. In later years I brought it back to 2-rail, made up new coupling rods from BH rail in traditional fashion, changed some details (Ross pop safety valves; LMS buffers) to bring her to LMS condition and after a repaint, numbered and named her "Ptarmigan". The chassis has rudimentary brakes. Locally made bogie wheels have replaced the old Jackson ones. I suspect she should have the cab cut down to fit the LMS composite loading gauge. Boilers however were swapped randomly between Belpaire and round-topped versions, as were large and small boss drivers. She is still on her Gem cast chassis and original X04 motor and still runs smoothly, though pulls a lot more amps than a Portescap powered engine! My epoxy construction is holding up well. The photo below was taken 2 or 3 years ago on my under-construction layout. She is hauling an original PC ex-LNWR screen-printed coach. And that's the K's Coal Tank on the right. The "Cauliflower" o-6-o is a different kettle of fish. Originally built in about 1978 with a white metal chassis and XT60 motor she now has a brass chassis, Mashima motor with two-stage Branchlines gear cradle, and hauls a London Road Models etched brass tender. Apart from goodwill, all that remains of the original Gem kit is the locomotive body, and even that has been chopped to incorporate a Belpaire firebox. And finally, the "Duck 8". Like Wolseley and his Cardeans, I bought two of these from a now deceased acquaintance before the Bachmann version hit the shops. They were poorly assembled but complete. The epoxy glue was already deteriorating as can be seen from the photo below. But a soak in paint stripper gave me a kit of parts. I was at the point of rebuilding the first of the 0-8-0s when the Bachmann version arrived. So I decided to introduce some variety by back-dating the model to "G1" round-topped boiler configuration. The full story is probably best told elsewhere but, in summary, I made a new firebox from copper tube, re-assembled the locomotive and tender with low melt solder, added chimney and dome from Brassmasters, and discarded the original white metal chassis for the Brassmasters one. A Mashima motor and gearbox of unknown provenance provided the "go". The other original and the rebuild under construction are shown below. And this is where I've got to so far. The crankpin retaining washers to be soldered on, a few other details added and off to the paint shop. I really must get on with it as she's been sitting on the bench in this state for a year. This post has turned out more long-winded than I intended - I blame a Wednesday of wet, unseasonable Southern Hemisphere weather. But the message I am trying to get across is one of support and encouragement to Wolseley to salvage and restore the Cardeans as far as possible. Gem Kits are simple, even crude by the standards of today but, assembled with care and with some enhancements if desired, I think they can hold their own with both Hornby Dublo and more modern models. Mike Edited December 19, 2019 by MikeCW Punctuation 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Cut my white metal teeth on Gem kits and Triang chassis - got rid of them when the Airfix and Bachmann revolution started and subsequently regretted doing so. They were simple but good introductions to actual modelling and still have a place today. Look forward to seeing what you do with them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 MikeCW has done a great job on his GEM kits. This is more or less the standard that I am hoping to get on the Cardeans (and a DJH CR Class 34 that is currently under construction). Time will tell. Both kits have been glued rather than soldered but the standard of construction (as opposed to the standard of painting) is quite good, so I'm hoping they won't fall apart when I strip the paint from them, as it will save me a bit of work if they stay intact. I would prefer the pickup to be on the loco rather than the tender, but I'll end up doing whatever is the easiest option. I've also got a near mint Tri-ang B12 sitting in the cupboard, so that gives me three B12 chassis to convert (plus a Tri-ang Albert Hall, which has pretty much the same chassis block). I'll be using Marklin skates, but I'll have to get hold of some first..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Wolseley said: MikeCW has done a great job on his GEM kits. This is more or less the standard that I am hoping to get on the Cardeans (and a DJH CR Class 34 that is currently under construction). Time will tell. Both kits have been glued rather than soldered but the standard of construction (as opposed to the standard of painting) is quite good, so I'm hoping they won't fall apart when I strip the paint from them, as it will save me a bit of work if they stay intact. I would prefer the pickup to be on the loco rather than the tender, but I'll end up doing whatever is the easiest option. I've also got a near mint Tri-ang B12 sitting in the cupboard, so that gives me three B12 chassis to convert (plus a Tri-ang Albert Hall, which has pretty much the same chassis block). I'll be using Marklin skates, but I'll have to get hold of some first..... Wolseley Try Precision Paints paint stripper they claimed it was safer than more aggressive paint strippers https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/other-paints-solvents/solvents/125pq18 I have noted the formula has changed and might degrade some glues. I use a table spoon of caustic soda in a pint of water and just soak a loco body in it for 24 hours, it will attack most glues so you would be left with a kit of parts. (make sure there is no aluminum (normally wagon wheels) as a very nasty gas is made). I do this in a garden shed. To be quite honest normally stripping paint will show up other defects which usually require at least partial rebuilding, plus quite often updating some parts is also desirable. On the plus side a very enjoyable exercise. If building to 3 rail Marlits sell Triang size axles, modellers like me have plenty of old Mazac wheels (look better than triang ones) which we would be happy to pass on, Alan Gibson do nice coupling and connecting rods 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCW Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 On 18/12/2019 at 14:52, Wolseley said: I'll be using Marklin skates, but I'll have to get hold of some first..... You are probably on to it already but, for the benefit of the random browser looking for information, the Marklin skate I have used successfully is number 7164, Its length is almost exactly the same as the distance between the points of contact on the 3rd rail of the spoons of a standard Dublo 3-rail pick-up. If the skate were any longer there would be a risk of electrical shorts when running through the diverging road on Hornby Dublo points. I bought three from Gaugemaster a year or two ago and they appear to have them in stock at the moment for about a fiver, http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=MN07164&style=main&strType=&Mcode=Marklin+7164 On another matter, when I tarted up the Gem "Cauliflower" and "Super D", I filed off the rather heavy cast boiler bands and replaced them with strips of self adhesive lining tape, cut from a small roll I bought from the local automotive parts and accessories chain store. It made a huge difference to the "look" of the locomotives. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 18 hours ago, hayfield said: Wolseley Try Precision Paints paint stripper they claimed it was safer than more aggressive paint strippers If I could find anyone who stocks their products here I would, but they don't seem to be available in Australia. And after reading through what can and can't be imported into Australia by mail, I have my doubts about whether paint strippers, flammable liquids and paints would make it through Customs. It's a shame, as there's quite a few of their paints I wouldn't mind getting my hands on..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 hour ago, MikeCW said: You are probably on to it already but, for the benefit of the random browser looking for information, the Marklin skate I have used successfully is number 7164, Its length is almost exactly the same as the distance between the points of contact on the 3rd rail of the spoons of a standard Dublo 3-rail pick-up. If the skate were any longer there would be a risk of electrical shorts when running through the diverging road on Hornby Dublo points. Yes, that's the one I used for successfully three railing a Tri-ang Caledonian Single and I'll be using it again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 6 hours ago, Wolseley said: If I could find anyone who stocks their products here I would, but they don't seem to be available in Australia. And after reading through what can and can't be imported into Australia by mail, I have my doubts about whether paint strippers, flammable liquids and paints would make it through Customs. It's a shame, as there's quite a few of their paints I wouldn't mind getting my hands on..... I guess the issue being flammable items and air transport, Might be worth seeing if a shipping company could arrange a small consignment via sea Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 My normal era is BR blue but I'm a sucker for well kitbuilt locos that no-one wants at auction - I'm pretty sure this is from the Gem kit but beautifully built with Romford or similar wheels and a scratchbuilt chassis. The box illustration is a very old low res auction image - the only one I could find 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 I'm unsure. Is the number 908? If so I have a feeling it's a 908 Class and probably DJH. The box has a DJH look about it. Photo of a 908 here. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CALEDONIAN-RAILWAY-908-CLASS-4-6-0-NO-908-VINTAGE-IMAGE-L255-/333942330759 Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: I'm unsure. Is the number 908? If so I have a feeling it's a 908 Class and probably DJH. The box has a DJH look about it. Photo of a 908 here. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CALEDONIAN-RAILWAY-908-CLASS-4-6-0-NO-908-VINTAGE-IMAGE-L255-/333942330759 Jason The number is 908 but the coal load is cast into the tender, plus it comes with the 8 wheel tender which is why I didn't think it was the DJH one. It is rather lovely though. Edited October 5, 2023 by andyman7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: I'm unsure. Is the number 908? If so I have a feeling it's a 908 Class and probably DJH. The box has a DJH look about it. Photo of a 908 here. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CALEDONIAN-RAILWAY-908-CLASS-4-6-0-NO-908-VINTAGE-IMAGE-L255-/333942330759 Jason Jason The box has no resembelance to any DJH ones I have, even going back to their early dais in Banbury More like the boxes I buy from Cheltenham Model Centre, as the original box is far too small for the built loco https://cheltenhammodelcentre.com/cmc/model-railway-locomotive-stock-box---various-colours--sizes-to-choose/p-207lbk There are plenty of these kits around, perhaps not made as well and with Triang chassis Edited October 6, 2023 by hayfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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