maico Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) DRG BR 97 in wartime Austrian service. The additional plates added to the original 1921 design make the loco look very top heavy... Brass Micro Metakit model (foto Frits Osterthun) Edited June 2, 2020 by maico 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Why DO the Germans and Austrians show such enthusiasm for these enormous tank engines? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, maico said: DRG BR 97 in wartime Austrian service. The additional protecton plates added to the original 1921 design make the loco look very top heavy... Brass Micro Metakit model That's magnificent! I think it's in the wrong topic though, it's certainly NOT bad looking even if it's not beautiful, it is definitely powerful looking and that gives it a beauty of its own. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Allegheny1600 said: That's magnificent! I think it's in the wrong topic though, it's certainly NOT bad looking even if it's not beautiful, it is definitely powerful looking and that gives it a beauty of its own. What he said. Germanic locomotives of that era have a definite aesthetic and design style. Mind you, there were some pretty odd things on rails further South .. and I can’t work out how THIS motion operated.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maico Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 This is better... Micro Metakit ( foto Osterthun) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 6 hours ago, maico said: DRG BR 97 in wartime Austrian service. The additional plates added to the original 1921 design make the loco look very top heavy... Brass Micro Metakit model (foto Frits Osterthun) You don't get many 2-12-2 tank engines. How does it cope with corners - does it have radial driving axles like the Fieldbahn 0-8-0 tanks? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2020 6 hours ago, maico said: DRG BR 97 in wartime Austrian service. The additional plates added to the original 1921 design make the loco look very top heavy... Brass Micro Metakit model (foto Frits Osterthun) Seems to have been a rack engine, judging from the short sequence of photos starting with this one:- Either last in service 1963, or last overhauled in 1963, my German isn't good enough to differentiate.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, rodent279 said: Seems to have been a rack engine, judging from the short sequence of photos starting with this one:- Either last in service 1963, or last overhauled in 1963, my German isn't good enough to differentiate.. https://www.erzbergbahn.at/galerie/ Similar beasties (I can't be sure of the exact class without searching for old slides) were still operating in 1975. Edited June 3, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) With a maximum gradient of 71/1000, or about 1:14, I can see why it is rack & pinion fitted. Edited June 3, 2020 by rodent279 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2020 13 hours ago, rockershovel said: What he said. Germanic locomotives of that era have a definite aesthetic and design style. Mind you, there were some pretty odd things on rails further South .. and I can’t work out how THIS motion operated.. It's Klose linkage; not a valve gear but a way to achieve the effect of variable-length coupling rods, allowing driving axles to steer themselves around sharp curves. Used extensively and with considerable success on the Austrian-built railways of Bosnia-Hercegovina. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said: https://www.erzbergbahn.at/galerie/ Similar beasties (I can't be sure of the exact class without searching for old slides) were still operating in 1975. You may be thinking of class 95 "Bergkonigin" (Mountain Queen), which were also 2-10-2 tank locos. 95 027 is still operational on the Rubelandbahn. This is a 4 cylinder superheated 2-10-2, one of a kind I believe. The rack is the Abt sytem. Edited June 3, 2020 by rodent279 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said: It's Klose linkage; not a valve gear but a way to achieve the effect of variable-length coupling rods, allowing driving axles to steer themselves around sharp curves. Used extensively and with considerable success on the Austrian-built railways of Bosnia-Hercegovina. See: http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/klose/klosetothe.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffAlan Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 I think the Crosti Boilered 9Fs were classically ugly. They even looked a bit odd when they reverted to normal boilers. Whereas the normal 9F looks great. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted June 3, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 3, 2020 I think production Warships and V200s are ugly. It's the beer belly in front of the windows... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 2 hours ago, GeoffAlan said: I think the Crosti Boilered 9Fs were classically ugly. They even looked a bit odd when they reverted to normal boilers. Whereas the normal 9F looks great. Franco-crosti anything looks pretty unsightly, I think, but these are probably the front-runners and the aforementioned Belgian contraption Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Experimental Irish Franco-Crosti, Bulleid had a hand in this, it appears.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maico Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said: You don't get many 2-12-2 tank engines. How does it cope with corners - does it have radial driving axles like the Fieldbahn 0-8-0 tanks? I don't know but here's the Ho model Edited June 3, 2020 by maico 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 5 hours ago, rockershovel said: Experimental Irish Franco-Crosti, Bulleid had a hand in this, it appears.. No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! surely not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
88D Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 7 hours ago, GeoffAlan said: I think the Crosti Boilered 9Fs were classically ugly. They even looked a bit odd when they reverted to normal boilers. Whereas the normal 9F looks great. I think the rebuilt Crostis look better than the standards. Not having smoke deflectors helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 10 hours ago, westerner said: No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! surely not. Turf-burner, for the bonus point! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted June 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 4, 2020 20 hours ago, GeoffAlan said: I think the Crosti Boilered 9Fs were classically ugly. They even looked a bit odd when they reverted to normal boilers. Whereas the normal 9F looks great. Weren't the Croatian boilrred versions only 8f's? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldomtom2 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Only after the pre-heaters were sealed off I believe, as this left them with smaller boilers than the standard 9Fs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted June 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2020 On 29/05/2020 at 12:55, DavidB-AU said: It needs a nose like that when going half the speed of sound. Apparently it's built like that to reduce noise levels, especially when entering & leaving tunnels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianathompson Posted June 5, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 5, 2020 On 03/06/2020 at 19:13, maico said: On 02/06/2020 at 22:31, pete_mcfarlane said: You don't get many 2-12-2 tank engines. How does it cope with corners - does it have radial driving axles like the Fieldbahn 0-8-0 tanks? I don't know but here's the Ho model They were built to replace the class 97-2xx class which were 0-6-2 rack tanks. The idea of the 97.4xx class (the 2-12-2RTs) was, as I understand it, to reduce double heading by these smaller locos on the Erzgebirge line. There were only 2 members of the class because they were unsuccessful, probably because they strruggled with curves. The 0-6-2RTs outlasted them. They were themselves a development of the 97.3xx class which was an 0-12-0 rack tank. I think these were more successful. Ransome Wallis observes of the 0-12-0RTs that "considerable play was arranged on the 1st,5th and 6th axles." Most of this info was taken from the Last Steam Locomotives of Western Europe, Ian Allen 1976 (2nd edn). In simple terms the point of the Klein Lindner driving system used under the Feldbahn tanks was that the wheels rotated around the drive axles on a hollow axle. They were engaged by a ball and pin mechanism allowing the wheels to adapt to the curve. The wheels could adapt to the curve whilst the valve gear remained in a parallel position. This was achieved by having the valve gear arranged around an outside frame. Some-one in Germany has built a live steam model of a Resita tank using this method of articulation. I think that he goes under the username of Waldbahner and has a video of it on the Narrow Gauge Railway Modelling site. It is certainly worth a look if you want complicated model steam locos! I just stick with Lady Anne derivatives. Ian T 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) On 04/06/2020 at 07:09, rockershovel said: Turf-burner, for the bonus point! Happy to oblige Quote Posted April 21, 2018 Tending to fence-sitting myself, I’ve always enjoyed excitingly bold projects risked by others. I once saw Bulleid’s CIE tufburner standing outside Inchicore works in the early 1960s and was instantly captivated. There is some interesting material on the Douglas Self Crosti boiler site about Bulleid’s 1940s enthusiasm for turf burning that attracted the CIE Board to him at the time of the Milne (of the GW) 1947 visitation. In particular how the poor old GS&WR Coey 1907 2-6-0 no. 635 got butchered by Bulleid into an extraordinary Crosti style turf burner in 1951 after what must have been a refreshing jaunt on the Irish taxpayers to post–war style setting Italy. This pic has the diagram of how the guinea pig was intended to work (coloured up by me – with an approximation of the original loco top left, the actual conversion right and the later deepened heat exchangers (GW pannier style) middle left DS comments “As originally built, the steaming was awful, and a forced-draught fan was later added, powered by a Leyland bus engine carried on a wagon behind the tender” We all know the actual boxy turf-burner CC! built in the 1950s (that I saw at Inchicore) by OVSB with John Click, his Leader class engineering assistant seconded from BR . It was simpler and lighter than Leader with a central boiler (double Fairlie style) with a complex central cube shaped un water-jacketed firebox with thermal siphons. It adopted piston rather than sleeve valves but still used leaky oil baths enclosing the chain drive to the six wheel bogies. Turf and water storage was at either end. It ran several times at 70mph, throwing turf sparks until fitted with spark arresters. Visibility and signal sighting was poor (smoke deflectors were only a partial remedy) It was clear to Click that redesign of both configuration and the double boiler was necessary before a new class of 50 could be introduced (dual fuelled oil/turf). But CIE decided instead to dieselise at about the time of Bulleid’s retirement to Malta in 1959. Bulleid seemed to regard it as his private sports car; driving it himself, he treated visiting dignitaries to high speed joy rides. As armchair CME I now propose to the Board of Imaginary Locomotives a 1959 redesign as a non condensing steam turbine/electric. I fancy a 2 unit: tender/boiler & generating station (that might have multiple unit capabilities for powering 4 car trains of elderly Irish coaches on inter urban stopping services). Could such a project be multi-fuelled ? oops - pic has not survived (imho this thread gets censored !) dh Edited June 5, 2020 by runs as required Heh! Heh! I've beaten that Censor ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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