Temporary Service Cuts Start Monday

[The Stationmaster]

There are numerous ways in which the infection can be carried and will stay on things.  and some might be surprising - my daughter works on a NHS ward and the trust she works for (which do seem to be very active in both planning and advice to staff) have now instructed staff who work on ordinary wards not to wear their uniform while travelling to or from work.

 

Stick with official advice and information from reputable sources.  And yes I already wipe any postal items coming through the door and was my hands after handling and disposing of the envelopes, yes we do clean something we buy from the supermarket, yes I do wear rubber gloves when shopping even if Tesco sanitise their trolleys every night - and so on.  And no I don't weigh up Covid-19 deaths against those from regular seasonal diseases and say 'it's minor' because this disease is more infectious and the people who are dying are additional deaths to all the others folk talk about as excuses.

 

And back to train service altereations, hopefully.

Edited March 21, 2020 by The Stationmaster

[caradoc]

1 hour ago, decauville1126 said:

 

I've been watching for a while now how the ratio goes : currently 2/3 "non cash" - erv/prepay/crinkly cards to 1/3 cash. Suits me as less time required paying-in at end of day, but my employer has always said we will keep cash walk-on facilities whilst making attractive off-bus purchase schemes.

 

Agreed different elsewhere, particularly London. 

 

Some businesses, eg Costa Coffee, are no longer accepting cash at all; Perhaps this is a (hopefully temporary) measure which should be adopted elsewhere, on buses for example, to slightly reduce the risk of contamination ? (And it shouldn't affect the elderly as they have bus passes anyway !)

 

[Gwiwer]

4 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Some businesses, eg Costa Coffee, are no longer accepting cash at all; Perhaps this is a (hopefully temporary) measure which should be adopted elsewhere, on buses for example, to slightly reduce the risk of contamination ? (And it shouldn't affect the elderly as they have bus passes anyway !)

 

Some businesses will need to retain cash-payment options because many people still do not have the option to pay by contactless card.   Cash sales could be limited to those not able to pay otherwise.  

[caradoc]

42 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Some businesses will need to retain cash-payment options because many people still do not have the option to pay by contactless card.   Cash sales could be limited to those not able to pay otherwise.  

 

Fair point, and in many cases I would prefer to pay cash myself, but as I say some companies are already refusing cash (and at least one organisation charges, and has done for years, double for paying by cash instead of contactless !) 

 

 

[PaulRhB]

Emergency measures now in place for signalling locations to allow flexibility of cover with fully qualified staff able to assist away from home locations within limits. Full support of the Unions in place. 

[HillsideDepot]

45 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Some businesses, eg Costa Coffee, are no longer accepting cash at all; Perhaps this is a (hopefully temporary) measure which should be adopted elsewhere, on buses for example, to slightly reduce the risk of contamination ? (And it shouldn't affect the elderly as they have bus passes anyway !)

 

 

This is what our local GoAhead Group bus companies have been Tweeting for the last few days.

 

But as anyone who has ever worked with the public knows, you can't please everyone.

When some supermarkets started opening early for older people to do their shopping before the panic buyers arrived I suggested to my manager that we ease the 9:30 restriction on our ENCTS (bus passes). The number of passengers generally has dropped significantly so, as a local authority, we won't be spending all our ENCTS budget under the normal formula. We lifted the time restriction yesterday, and now people are saying we're being irresponsible as we are encouraging travel when older people should be staying at home! And that's despite each message, press release etc specifically stating that its to help people get the provisions they need. 

 

So, thoughts to all our drivers (bus, rail, taxi), guards, and others on the front line at this time. And a big thank you to all those Schedulers and Planners working tirelessly away to produce workable new timetables. Sadly, whatever schedule runs next week will probably be short lived, and no doubt there will be staff busy working on the next, even more reduced, set of schedules this weekend. 

Stay safe, if you have to go out there!

[caradoc]

On a related topic, just before this whole situation exploded, I booked tickets for my 90 year old mother from Oxford to Glasgow and return, in early June. Of course it is too early now to say what will be happening then, but the two TOCs involved, Cross Country Trains and Avanti West Coast, have for the moment cancelled all the trains she was booked on. That I understand, and there are other services available, albeit much more inconvenient, however of the four tickets bought, three were Advance, and both TOCs are still saying these are non-refundable !

 

Hopefully she will still be able to travel, from a train service, Government advice/instruction and personal health point of view, but if not I would hope the TOCs change their policy, not least if they are receiving public financial support in their time of hardship. We shall see what happens !

 

[caradoc]

4 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Emergency measures now in place for signalling locations to allow flexibility of cover with fully qualified staff able to assist away from home locations within limits. Full support of the Unions in place. 

 

And retired railway staff have been sounded out to return to work to assist, although training and competence will need to get sorted out. I am considering the invitation.......

 

[black and decker boy]

6 minutes ago, caradoc said:

On a related topic, just before this whole situation exploded, I booked tickets for my 90 year old mother from Oxford to Glasgow and return, in early June. Of course it is too early now to say what will be happening then, but the two TOCs involved, Cross Country Trains and Avanti West Coast, have for the moment cancelled all the trains she was booked on. That I understand, and there are other services available, albeit much more inconvenient, however of the four tickets bought, three were Advance, and both TOCs are still saying these are non-refundable !

 

Hopefully she will still be able to travel, from a train service, Government advice/instruction and personal health point of view, but if not I would hope the TOCs change their policy, not least if they are receiving public financial support in their time of hardship. We shall see what happens !

 

If the train is cancelled then the advance ticket is refundable though might only happen afterwards via normal delay/repay processes.

 

im in same position at the moment so will be watching departures feeds and submitting a claim if train cancelled.

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Certainly, check facts first using reputable sources. But, the principle is right even if the time period mentioned is questionable. The virus does not survive forever; how long depends on the surface it is sitting on. Leave a train out of service and quarantined for a week and the indications are that any virus living in it will be dead.

 

Nor would I use such emotive terms as Danger Deniers. The Covid-19 virus is not the end of the world; some will die from it, some of those would have died anyway without the virus. The majority will survive it.

 

Yes, be careful about what you say, but keep everything in proportion.

 

All of what you say is essentially true, but (and it is a big but), everything that is being done essentially isn't being done to protect people from the Covid-19 - all this is being done is to slow the spread so that those who do need treatment stand a decent chance of having the necessary health care available.

 

The problem is that far too many people aren't treating this seriously enough - the stories out of Italy and to a lesser extent out of Washington State aren't enough - and thus too many people are ignoring the current advice regarding social distancing.  There are too many stories/images/videos of people taking the closure of schools/business as an opportunity to party or have unexpected mini-holidays and packing beaches, clubs, bars, etc.  And part of the "justification" in their minds will be all the comments that this is just another flu, because for many people the danger of overwhelming the health care system is either too abstract or they decide as they are healthy and young enough and won't need the health care system that it doesn't matter (though of course if any of them are unlikely enough to crash a car and need an ICU only to find it full they may change their mind, but it will be too late by then).

 

So yes, Andy Y was correct to put his foot down about the spreading of false information (note that it wasn't the initial post that got the response, but the follow-up post insisting on incorrect information).  The numbers of deaths are bad enough if we handle this properly, but they get dramatically worse if we don't (and that doesn't count the long term effects on the mental health of those working in hospitals who face the prospect of being unable to save people if we the public don't take this seriously).

 

[caradoc]

17 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

If the train is cancelled then the advance ticket is refundable though might only happen afterwards via normal delay/repay processes.

 

im in same position at the moment so will be watching departures feeds and submitting a claim if train cancelled.

 

This is from Avanti West Coast's website today:

 

'Advance tickets are non-refundable, but can be exchanged for an alternative date or time without a charge. '

 

I would imagine the rationale is that the service cuts are pre-planned timetable alterations, rather than ad-hoc cancellations on the day. However, I fully expect that, given the severity of the situation, (and in particular the instruction to the elderly to self-isolate) the TOCs will have to relent and refund all ticket types; Otherwise they are receiving money without providing the service paid for. Taking money from pensioners who cannot travel without seriously risking their health, and indeed lives, is not going to look good !

 

 

[great central]

4 hours ago, caradoc said:

 

This is from Avanti West Coast's website today:

 

'Advance tickets are non-refundable, but can be exchanged for an alternative date or time without a charge. '

 

I would imagine the rationale is that the service cuts are pre-planned timetable alterations, rather than ad-hoc cancellations on the day. However, I fully expect that, given the severity of the situation, (and in particular the instruction to the elderly to self-isolate) the TOCs will have to relent and refund all ticket types; Otherwise they are receiving money without providing the service paid for. Taking money from pensioners who cannot travel without seriously risking their health, and indeed lives, is not going to look good !

 

 

 

As far as I know, the refund or change tickets is in accordance with the RDG rules which are presumably set by the DaFT. The current concession is that they can be changed without charging the normal admin fee.

Any further changes will come from the RDG which in turn means from one government department advising another about what is required. Most government departments are probably in lock down or working from home, so.........

 

[caradoc]

I've contacted Avanti West Coast about the refund policy, so we'll see what they say. Given the measures Government have taken so far, altering rail ticket refund conditions will hopefully not be a major issue.

 

[Gwiwer]

If you really have to travel (which includes all Key Workers and may include a few others who must travel in order to shop or deal with other pressing matters) please be aware that even the reduced service levels are not low enough to avoid cancellations through staff being unavailable.  

 

Among TOCs affected GWR has a significant number of cancellations including some on the less frequent long-distance services.  Though loadings today should not make that a problem of itself it could significantly extend travel times.  

 

SWR yesterday cancelled the entire service on some suburban lines from early afternoon in order to keep others going; the scissors were used where they would be likely to cause the least overall disruption.  There is evidence of this starting to happen again today.

 

If you have to travel then also have a Plan B because after an undefined point later in the day there will be no guarantee of reaching a destination - particularly if it involves more than suburban travel - and no alternative transport can be expected.  

[Southernman46]

On 20/03/2020 at 14:33, Gwiwer said:

SWR will be operating what amounts to the well-tried and resilient Strike Timetable as of Monday morning although nearly all lines will have a train service 

 

That will be enough ………………….. fingers crossed

[phil-b259]

On 21/03/2020 at 12:32, The Stationmaster said:

There are numerous ways in which the infection can be carried and will stay on things.  and some might be surprising - my daughter works on a NHS ward and the trust she works for (which do seem to be very active in both planning and advice to staff) have now instructed staff who work on ordinary wards not to wear their uniform while travelling to or from work.

 

 

One could argue that this should have applied anyway!

 

Very few domestic washing machines run at a high enough temperature to kill nasty bugs - plus even if they do they are very energy intensive which goes against the grain of saving energy being extolled by those Smart meter ads. Thats before we get to all the germs which may be picked up on transportation*

 

Of course washing garments at work requires the necessary infrastructure plus lots of extra sets of uniform (our workwear takes two or more weeks to be laundered) so from a been counters perspective, having staff wash their own is far more 'cost effective' for the NHS

 

 

 

* Most of which will be perfectly harmless to the healthy - but could be deadly to someone with a severe health problem in hospital.

 

 

 

 

[Gwiwer]

Just now, Southernman46 said:

That will be enough ………………….. fingers crossed

 

They certainly hope so but it will depend very much on staff being available.  That includes signallers.  One siggy missing and the entire job stops.  It already happened on the Isle of Wight the other day - a quiet and isolated line but still a lifeline for locals and relying on a single signaller in one location.  

 

The timetables online for SWR show that unlike the strike service there will be shuttle trains Virginia Water - Weybridge and Ascot - Aldershot.  No trains are scheduled on the Romsey Roundabouts because of the Dean landslip - buses are booked here.  Buses also cover Epsom - Effingham Junction to serve Bookham in order to terminate all Epsom line trains at that station.  Effingham - Guildford will be served hourly via Cobham and Leatherhead - Dorking by Southern via Sutton.  

[mdvle]

GWR timetable can be seen here https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/live-network-updates/disruption-information - staring Monday it will be a 7 day a week timetable.

 

Most routes that operate seem to be 1 train per hour, though some stations won't be getting hourly service (example, London - Plymouth will be alternating between 2 routes).

 

Highlights include no through trains to Penzance, a Plymouth-Penzance shuttle will operate instead

 

Barnstaple only gets a peak service

 

Night Riviera cancelled until further notice.

 

Pullman Dining not available until further notice.

Edited March 22, 2020 by mdvle

[Pete the Elaner]

My fear was that reducing services would see many rammed into less trains like this:

 

 

"Deep-cleaning" was mentioned. Easy words to use but what exactly does this mean?

Do you think that if they let services run this crowded, they would use special procedures to dis-infect the trains?

I would like to think they do, but I have my doubts.

[Pete the Elaner]

On 21/03/2020 at 09:18, AY Mod said:

 

What is it with these Danger Deniers? 

 

Check your facts, don't repeat rubbish and please, for the sake of everyone else, keep away from us all. 

 

It seems you only read half the sentence & missed my point entirely, so I've highlighted it.

 

The virus is observed to die after 20 minutes outside of a host, so I EXPECT period out of use will be DEEMED SUFFICIENT.

 

As for me.. I've not been outside since the weekend & won't go anywhere until I run low on food, which is over a week away. You've got no danger of me being anywhere near you.

[Gwiwer]

There have certainly been a few very well loaded trains both on the tube and national networks.  But on the whole those are the exception and as people adjust to the new level of mobility they are expected to maintain then such instances should be few and far between.  

 

TfL is possibly unique in being able to respond more quickly than others in terms of reinstating a few trains if crowding continues to be a localised issue.  

 

Observations within my area of influence show that Southern trains towards Victoria are still quite well used in the first hour or so of service (and with some traffic still clearly originating from Gatwick Airport) but after that you can have your choice of carriages on most trains.  SWR likewise still has a noticeable morning peak with perhaps 15-30 people in some carriages on a few trains until 08.00 then it drops to near zero.  My limited observation of the tube is confined to Richmond and Wimbledon, both termini and possibly giving a false picture of overall patronage but trains are extremely lightly loaded.  

 

Bus use today was lighter than previously - which is to be expected - but some trips were still carrying double-digit loadings.  

 

There is a significant number of key workers and those who consider their jobs essential but cannot do them from home (such as the self-employed construction workers who are still travelling in numbers) but non-essential travel has all but ceased from where I stand.  It is a very strange experience to be on the platforms at Britain's busiest railway station at 08.15 on a weekday morning and see not a single waiting passenger across all 17 platforms.  

[Pete the Elaner]

I wish it was only the essentials who were still going to work.

 

I used to work for a certain London-based media company (who publishes many news stories). They were due to leave their current office at the end of the month & yesterday asked contractors if they could squeeze in the necessary work to move this Wednesday before the deadline kicks in..so they are still putting money in front of national (& worldwide) welfare.

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

It seems you only read half the sentence & missed my point entirely, so I've highlighted it.

 

The virus is observed to die after 20 minutes outside of a host, so I EXPECT period out of use will be DEEMED SUFFICIENT.

 

No, the point wasn't missed.  You stated a fact that is false - that the virus dies after 20 minutes outside of host.

 

You have now yet again stated this falsehood.

 

You have stated that a period out of use will be deemed sufficient, again false.

 

Organizations like London Underground have made it clear that they have stepped up their cleaning regime, bringing in new cleaning supplies that kill viruses and bacteria, and stepping up their disinfecting of driver cabs and depots

https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/coronavirus-covid-?intcmp=62419

 

I think it may be you who has missed the point.

[Banger Blue]

Both myself and the good lady wife work for the railway and are therefore “key workers”

 

I’m “lucky”, I work in a Control room so only have to see my co-workers (and we’ve denied access to basically everybody else).

My wife however is front line and passenger facing!

 

Please, unless you are a key worker or your journey is absolutely essential, DONT TRAVEL!

 

To be fair, what I’ve seen so far on the Cotswold Line & reports from the Mrs, people are taking heed! Let’s keep it that way please!

[Pete the Elaner]

8 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

I think it may be you who has missed the point.

 

Not at all.

You are another reacting to half a post, completely ignoring what I emphasised in bold.