Friden - Cromford & High Peak

[Rowsley17D]

I don't know whether it's the photo reproduction or my laptop's interpretation but the walls look like corrugated sheets. In the same book there's a corrugated hut at High Peak Junction.

[Quarry-Steam65]

I’ve only just came across this forum, my uncle used to live near the C&HPR route and so I shall be following this with great interest!

[mike morley]

Alister's picture is of Fairford, ex-GWR, in 1962, off the back cover of Wild Swan's GW Branch Line Modelling Pt 1.

As the former GWR was still largely autonomous in those days I'm not sure it would be entirely representative of anywhere else on the national system.

Edited August 3, 2021 by mike morley

[Alister_G]

1 hour ago, mike morley said:

Alister's picture is of Fairford, ex-GWR, in 1962, off the back cover of Wild Swan's GW Branch Line Modelling Pt 1.

As the former GWR was still largely autonomous in those days I'm not sure it would be entirely representative of anywhere else on the national system.

 

Thanks Mike, it was just a random find on a Google image search, with no attribution, so that's helpful.

 

Al.

[Middlepeak]

I spent today getting stoned in the company of a couple of good friends.

 

Before you ask, there were no illicit substances involved, just a bottle of PVA and a pack of Woodland Scenics Medium Grey Talus.

 

The aim was to male a trial section of dry stone wall, which involved preparing a core of balsa wood, shaped to give the appropriate batter to the wall and then sticking the stones on, one at a time.

 

I found the process quite soporific, but at 4 hours for a 3 inch length, it's a bit time consuming, especially when you consider that Friden will need around 25 feet of the stuff!

 

 

 

The other problems are that the stones look too rounded to me, compared with dry stone walling in the White Peak, and the Talus doesn't give you the right shape of capstone for the wall.

 

I'll await the judgement of my Derbyshire colleagues, but I must admit that I'm quite taken with the subtle variations in colour that you get with this stuff.

 

Back to track laying while the votes are counted!!!

 

G

[JustinDean]

I think the colour is really good but…I agree the stones are little too round. For the capstones maybe a mixture of technique could be used such as using DAS clay? 

Second spanner in the works and I’m guessing you’re already well aware of this one. While the balsa core gives a really nice shape how can it be used on any curved or inclined sections?

Despite the above criticisms I quite like your wall section and it looks way better than my DAS attempt on Middleton Top!
 

Jay

[JustinDean]

In response to your question about the hut at Longcliffe - this is the only other photo I can find:

[Rowsley17D]

World War Scenics do some angular stone in their ballast range which might just be suitable.

 

https://www.wwscenics.com/product/large-grade-light-grey-ballast/

 

There's no indication of the size range of the stone in the descriptions but a phone call to them might help. 

[Alister_G]

Like you and the others have said, the overall effect is very pleasing, but the stone is too rounded. Derbyshire limestone walls tend to use more angular pieces of stone, with a lot less consistency in size.

 

 

That said, from a distance it does look very effective.

 

Al.

[bécasse]

On 02/08/2021 at 23:41, Middlepeak said:

Another plea for assistance!

 

I have decided that one of the possible operational moves for Friden would be for a main line loco to arrive with an engineer's inspection saloon and for the staff concerned to change vehicles to a Wickham Trolley for their trip further towards Middleton. There is photographic evidence to suggest that this maybe did take place.

 

Looking through my photo collection, I found a shot of Longcliffe yard (part of which is cruelly enlarged below), which shows a platelayers' hut that was used as a shed for a trolley, so I thought that for the purposes of my layout I would relocate it to Friden.

 

 

The problem is that the photo is insufficiently detailed to allow anything other than a cursory scale up of the side elevation for modelling. The roof looks as though it's fashioned from corrugated panels, but the construction of the walls is unclear.

 

The question is therefore - does anyone have any other photos of this hut, or for that matter anything similar at any other point on the BR network? Of course a drawing of same would be wonderful, but one can't afford to raise hopes too much!

Corrugated "iron" panels were 26" wide (allowing a minimum 2" overlap) and regularly available in lengths between 6' and 12' in whole feet increments, the corrugations were at 3" centres. You didn't cut the stuff unless you had to but there must have been some sort of tool for bending a sheet at 90° along a corrugation as one often finds a single corrugation bent round in this way at corners. Even from this distant view that starts to provide some possible dimensions. The hut looks to me to have been provided specially for a motor trolley rather than previously having had some other use.

 

While on the subject of the CH&P, around forty years ago I cycled the length of the High Peak trail and took a number of photos. I have been able to identify the precise location of all of them (even MP 13 by Croft Farm) bar one which should be obvious but isn't, at least to me. I have attached it below and would really welcome suggestions, it is looking away from Cromford.

[Middlepeak]

The clearest clue is on the skyline to the right of the distant escarpment - the chimney of the engine house at Middleton Top. That would place you just to the west of Steeplehouse Goods, heading towards Middleton Bottom and Middlepeak Yard.

[JustinDean]

Mornin’ Geraint. Just spotted these on a Derbyshire Facebook group - a few photos based around Friden’s brickworks railway:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/derbysrailwaysremembered/permalink/4340964412605726/
 

Jay

 

[Middlepeak]

Thanks mate. I maybe need to join this group!

 

G

[JustinDean]

51 minutes ago, Middlepeak said:

Thanks mate. I maybe need to join this group!

 

G

There’s the occasional C&HPR photo pop up on there.

[bécasse]

23 hours ago, Middlepeak said:

The clearest clue is on the skyline to the right of the distant escarpment - the chimney of the engine house at Middleton Top. That would place you just to the west of Steeplehouse Goods, heading towards Middleton Bottom and Middlepeak Yard.

Thanks for that, Geraint. I thought that I had taken it somewhere round there but couldn't match it up (having missed the clue of the chimney on the skyline).

 

Having looked more closely at Harry Townley's photo of Longcliffe it has become clear to me that whatever it was constructed of it wasn't corrugated-iron. The wall looks like upright planks or sleepers and the roof covering looks like tar-paper or possibly an old tarpaulin fixed with battens over planking, probably built by the local pw gang rather than being any sort of standard LMSR/LMR structure. The wall looks to be about 11'-6" long by 7'-6" high with the roof adding roughly another 4' to the overall height and another 1' to the length each end. I think that the motor trolleys were about 9' overall length so those estimated dimensions are probably about right. I will see if I can get a rough drawing together.

[Middlepeak]

A bit more progress to report as the next board for Friden has arrived (in its component parts) and has now been assembled. This is the corner board, which carries the main brickworks buildings and closes the main loop at the west end. 

 

There's a lot of compromise in the design here. The real works building is at least 200 yards long, but I don't have the 2.4metres required to build it to scale. I'll therefore be concentrating on a reasonably accurate portrayal of the rail accesses at each end and will incorporate some form of view blocker (a large tree?) at the front of the layout to break up the scene.

 

 

The photo is taken from the yard end. The short siding will be the stabling point for the works Peckett. The open wagon is standing at the entrance to the works and the brake van is on the main line.

 

More track laying to come!

 

G

[Alister_G]

It is a shame that you've had to compress it, although I fully understand why.

 

I had always had a hankering to model Friden, because of the interchange between mainline locos, the C&HPR tank engines, and the works' shunters, but to do it justice would take far more room than I have.

 

I look forward to seeing the end result of yours.

 

Al.

[Rowsley17D]

Passed under Friden bridge many times this autumn on the way to see aged parent. Waiting for the buildings to appear in eager anticipation.

[JustinDean]

Good to see some progress mate. Personally I think the compromise on length and putting the necessary curve in for your room will make for a more interesting model overall. 
 

Jay

[Tortuga]

14 hours ago, Middlepeak said:

I'll therefore be concentrating on a reasonably accurate portrayal of the rail accesses at each end…

 

@Middlepeak how are you going to fit the works rail access at the other end? Your original plan just showed this end of the works, or have I misunderstood something?

 

Regardless, it’s looking really good and I fully agree with Jay that turning the long straight of the prototype into a curve makes for a much more interesting model. Besides, as you’re viewing it from the inside of the curve, the curve itself won’t be apparent.

[Tortuga]

14 hours ago, Alister_G said:

…because of the interchange between mainline locos, the C&HPR tank engines, and the works' shunters…

I didn’t think the works had its own standard gauge shunters?

 I know Buxton’s Ivatt Class 2s unofficially (?) snuck into the works to move wagons around and @Middlepeakhas invoked Rule 1 to justify a Peckett; did the works have its own in reality?

[Middlepeak]

The access into the works at the west end comes on the next baseboard. I'm assuming unless there is evidence to the contrary that empties were pushed into the works at the east end and fulls emerged at the west, with wagons being moved along the internal loading bay by pinch bar.

 

No, there were no works standard gauge shunters. As you say, Rule 1 applies in my case!

 

G

[Middlepeak]

Here's a photo of the internal loading bay, which shows just how tight the clearances were inside the building.

 

Source - Derbyshire Records Office

 

Interesting that the bricks are being loaded here into straw-lined BR containers, which were carried in open wagons, presumably with a tarpaulin over the top to stop water ingress. Everything stacked and packed by hand, because the works produced many varieties of bricks or different shapes and sizes. There is evidence that in the 1960s Palbrick wagons were used.

 

Quite clearly no room for a loco on the loading bank road through the works though!

 

G

 

[Joe MCMLXI]

What a great layout this will be, Gerraint.

 

Anything C&HPR based and especially Friden, will be pure gold !

 

I wish I had taken photo's when I worked there, as the NG was still running... just.

SG was limited to rails still in the concrete floor through the works.

 

Look forward to seeing the buildings, as that will bring fond memories back ( Friden was like a big family )

 

Joe

[Middlepeak]

Joe,

 

Great to hear from you. Although you may not have been around at DSF before the High Peak closed, I wonder if you're still in touch with anybody who was? I'm particularly interested to find out how the loop through the factory was worked, given that there was insufficient clearance for locos in there. I'm assuming empties in at one end and fulls out at the other, but we're there any coal deliveries into the works itself?

 

Any anecdotes from the old DSF workforce would be helpful!

 

Regards,

 

G