First Class Kits Presflo

[37114]

I was wondering if anyone has any experience of buying/building the first class Kits Presflo please? I think it was formerly an M&M models kit I believe which was mostly etched brass? I am not afraid of soldering having built an etched brass class 14 a few years ago but curious on thoughts as to how easy it was and how accurate a model it is. Price wise it looks very competitive compared to the MM1 (ex JLTRT version) and I am aware the JLTRT version had some issues with the ribbing.

 

FCK also sell 2 types, badged as Angular or rounded. To my eyes from the pictures on their website the rounded type looks to be a better shape as the roof curve on the angular version (painted yellow) looks too sharp?

 

Thanks 

[jim.snowdon]

I haven't built this one, from either source, but something that I would consider is the risk of the ribbing on the JLTRT/MM1 version getting chipped over time. It is a known problem with the overhanging corners of van roofs. The ribbing on the First Class kits is, as far as I am aware, cast whitemetal.

 

Jim

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

The ribbing on the First Class kits is, as far as I am aware, cast whitemetal.

I could be wrong but I thought someone built one on here and the ribs were brass.

 

They are brass - see below.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Hal Nail

[brossard]

I was taken aback to see a ply sided van kit in the range.  As I examined it, it looks for all the world to be the Precision Models kit I built:

 

 

Ribs are whitemetal and as such are a bit oversize, etched brass would be better.  I threw most of the castings away.  The end corrugations are Evergreen 0.060" half round.

 

Details of this and the MCV build are in the link below.

 

John

[Hal Nail]

 

[brossard]

36 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

 

 

Oh no, the thread petered out, like a jigsaw with missing pieces.    It looks like a good kit.

 

John

[Hal Nail]

As an aside and a tip for future reference, I found it using Google: searching on here threw up loads of results but nothing relevant!

[37114]

Thanks guys,  I have done some research and now understand the difference between the rounded and Angular versions which refers to the shape of the body where the vertical bodyside joins the hopper sloping part. I am modelling the APCM wagons, they had both types of body but have gone for the rounded type which was more widely used by other companies as well.

[Aldgate Box Boy]

Hi, sorry I don't know your name.  I haven't done the Presflo but have done the Grain hopper kit.  I would certainly recommend the kits generally, they are more challenging than say a Connoisseur kits although the Grain van was quite a complex beast. I think the instructions are all online so it should be quite easy to see in advance what you are facing.

best Tim

[pwr]

I have the old College Models Grain Wagon to build - anyone done one of them?

 

Paul R

[37114]

46 minutes ago, Aldgate Box Boy said:

Hi, sorry I don't know your name.  I haven't done the Presflo but have done the Grain hopper kit.  I would certainly recommend the kits generally, they are more challenging than say a Connoisseur kits although the Grain van was quite a complex beast. I think the instructions are all online so it should be quite easy to see in advance what you are facing.

best Tim

Brilliant Thanks Tim, a fellow demonstrator at a show a few years  ago was building the 7mm grain hopper and it certainly looked a beast. I looked at the thread linked earlier and can see the soldering iron and bending bars are going to get some use

 

Thanks Rob 

[Father Dougal]

23 hours ago, 37114 said:

I was wondering if anyone has any experience of buying/building the first class Kits Presflo please? I think it was formerly an M&M models kit I believe which was mostly etched brass? I am not afraid of soldering having built an etched brass class 14 a few years ago but curious on thoughts as to how easy it was and how accurate a model it is. Price wise it looks very competitive compared to the MM1 (ex JLTRT version) and I am aware the JLTRT version had some issues with the ribbing.

 

FCK also sell 2 types, badged as Angular or rounded. To my eyes from the pictures on their website the rounded type looks to be a better shape as the roof curve on the angular version (painted yellow) looks too sharp?

 

Thanks 

 

I built one a few years ago. It was pretty easy to build and fits in with some JLRT Presflos.

Dougal

[GraemeR]

I attempted building one of these kits, but found them far too difficult. They are complex and way beyond my skill level, having built a number of Connoisseur kits. I abandoned and built 2 MM1 kits instead. Far more expensive of course. Good luck!

[37114]

16 minutes ago, GraemeR said:

I attempted building one of these kits, but found them far too difficult. They are complex and way beyond my skill level, having built a number of Connoisseur kits. I abandoned and built 2 MM1 kits instead. Far more expensive of course. Good luck!

I had a look at the instructions earlier, agree it looks complicated but will have a go. Still holding out hope Hattons announce the 0 gauge version that is on their dream list for the other 5 I need.

[37114]

The kit turned up today and have to say first impression is good, especially based on the presentation of the box.

 

The bits look nicely shaped and the white metal and lost wax cartons are sharp

 

I will probably make a start at the weekend and will post pictures of my progress on here.

 

Having done some more studying of the differences between the angular and rounded types I should probably have gone for the angular kit type as the discharge valves are different for the APCM version but Malcolm the proprietor of FCK has agreed to send me some of the discharge valves for the APCM version. I hope to get at least 6 presflos so it will be nice to get some variation as the later ones had the rounded body but with APCM valves so I will need to number it carefully. 

[37114]

As planned I made a start on the Presflo. I won't repeat the instructions but will focus on a few thoughts I had while building it, the instructions being clear based on my experience so far. I will be honest I am out of practise with my soldering and I need to replace the tip in the iron so some of the soldering could be better but so far it has cleaned up well. Tools wise I have a reasonable tool kit but have avoided some expensive purchases so haven't bought a riveting tool or hold and fold.

 

The first part is to rivet the solebar, something I have never done before. I used an old screw and small hammer, 5 gentle taps seeming to be sufficient to punch out the rivets:

 

 

After that I bent the underframes into a U section, I have a little vice for the smaller items

 

For the solebars I ventured into the garage and used my monster vice with some MDF between the jaws:

 

The solebars and bufferbeams are assembled first. The kit employs a lot of "slot the parts together and bend the tabs over" approach which is something I am not used to and if anything made it a little harder to get the chassis square but works on the hopper body quite well. The V hangers are part of the solebar and fold down later, I was worried this would make them vulnerable but I haven't damaged them yet.

 

Next the rest of the chassis frame is added, this employs the fold tab method to get the cross members joined to the inner chassis rails, but when you fit them to the chassis it is all judged by eye. A useful reference is the crossmember sits in line with one of the rivet dimples. 

After that you add the end platforms and the white metal vac pipe. I used superglue rather than soldering, I do have some low melt solder but my iron is not variable temperature so aired on the side of caution

 

Then it was on to the hopper body. I was apprehensive about curving the profile but the kit has multiple half etch lines where the body bends so it was a doddle. The slot and tab method works well here although the lower tabs were harder to access to trim off:

Once tidied up the banding on the top needs soldering on, again quite straightforward and fits well. 

 

Thats it for now, next step is the roof and the side ribs.

[37114]

I have soldered on the side ribs over the last couple of nights and have to say it wasn't an easy job. I wasn't happy with the result of the first side, but the second side is more passable.

 

The problem stems from the fact that the slots that the tabs fit into are quite loose and make it difficult to get the vertical ribs at a consistent height. Also twisting the tabs as per the instructions tends to distort the part or moved them out of position which makes it very difficult to fit the Horizontal bits. It provides some flexibility to adjust things before you solder it up but it wasn't easy

 

Having struggled with the first side, I took a different approach to the second. I avoided twisting the tabs and soldered each vertical piece individually in place when fitting, being careful to check the top of the part was inline with the top of the hopper. Then when these were all in I added the Horizontal bits. This gave a better result but still not 100% in my eyes. Also in the era I am modelling the name boards had mostly been removed although a handful did still carry them so this wagon is a candidate for being fitted with a board.

The photo below shows the finished side, the wonky vertical bar on the left has since been straightened. 

[Hal Nail]

I see your project has triggered the inevitable r-t-r announcement! Always the way!

[81A Oldoak]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

I see your project has triggered the inevitable r-t-r announcement! Always the way!

Indeed. I shall be in the market for several of the Ellis Clark Presflos. They are being designed by Nikki Wilkes. She is a superb designer and gives me confidence that this will be an excellent product and a very good price. Usual disclaimers.

 

Chris K 

[37114]

AAARRRRGGHHH!!!!! For f*** sake! I have spent my whole afternoon burning my finger tips only  to hear there is an RTR one coming!!!!

F***ing hell, how many times do I build a kit for someone to announce an RTR verison. 4mm Motorail flats, 4mm MK1 BSO and now this.....

 

Only Joking, music to my ears! Good job I got on with things before reading the announcement as I might have lobbed it back in the box but I do feel for poor Malcolm at First class kits as the EC version will no doubt stop any future sales of the Presflo. 

 

Anyway back to the build; The vertical end ribs went on fine based on the experience of the side ribs.

 

The Horizontals require a lot of fettling to fit, I found the easiest way was to solder them in place then file to shape with the needle file. The photo below shows the 3 stages of fitting: Top fettled, middle awaiting fettling, bottom yet to be fettled.

 

After the end horizontals I then soldered the bottom of the hopper. There is no half etch fold line so this was a little bit tricky but went on ok, I soldered it from the inisde.

Next the roof. This was a bit of a pain to roll, I don't have a set of rollers but tried to use the same technique I used in 4mm; a wad of tissues and a round bar but the brass is thick so ended up resorting to wrapping it round a catering pack of chick peas to get it started. before doing the last bit by roller as it is a continuous curve.

 

Final job of the day was the walk ways, I soldered one but cheated for the other 2 and used Cyano as I am running short on solder

 

Despite the EC announcement I plan to crack on and get this finished. As I need at least 6 I may paint this in the generic BR scheme so I can sell it and then use the cash for the EC version but we will see.

 

 

 

[34006]

At least when finished you would be able to look at it ad think "thats all my own work".

It's looking good,can't wait to see it painted,

 

Atb

 

Phil

[deltic17]

1 hour ago, 37114 said:

AAARRRRGGHHH!!!!! For f*** sake! I have spent my whole afternoon burning my finger tips only  to hear there is an RTR one coming!!!!

F***ing hell, how many times do I build a kit for someone to announce an RTR verison. 4mm Motorail flats, 4mm MK1 BSO and now this.....

 

Only Joking, music to my ears! Good job I got on with things before reading the announcement as I might have lobbed it back in the box but I do feel for poor Malcolm at First class kits as the EC version will no doubt stop any future sales of the Presflo. 

 

Anyway back to the build; The vertical end ribs went on fine based on the experience of the side ribs.

 

The Horizontals require a lot of fettling to fit, I found the easiest way was to solder them in place then file to shape with the needle file. The photo below shows the 3 stages of fitting: Top fettled, middle awaiting fettling, bottom yet to be fettled.

 

After the end horizontals I then soldered the bottom of the hopper. There is no half etch fold line so this was a little bit tricky but went on ok, I soldered it from the inisde.

Next the roof. This was a bit of a pain to roll, I don't have a set of rollers but tried to use the same technique I used in 4mm; a wad of tissues and a round bar but the brass is thick so ended up resorting to wrapping it round a catering pack of chick peas to get it started. before doing the last bit by roller as it is a continuous curve.

 

Final job of the day was the walk ways, I soldered one but cheated for the other 2 and used Cyano as I am running short on solder

 

Despite the EC announcement I plan to crack on and get this finished. As I need at least 6 I may paint this in the generic BR scheme so I can sell it and then use the cash for the EC version but we will see.

 

 

 

Lovely modelling by the way....that is typical!

 

You couldn't have a go at building at Shark ballast plough could you?.....I could do with a RTR version of one of them coming out....

[37114]

6 minutes ago, deltic17 said:

Lovely modelling by the way....that is typical!

 

You couldn't have a go at building at Shark ballast plough could you?.....I could do with a RTR version of one of them coming out....

Nope! The Presflo was the only wagons I needed for my layout.... for now....

[O-Gauge-Phil]

Your doing a grand job on this and I think it will be a lot nicer than anything available rtr.  Try half a clothes peg to save your fingers,  the little cutout for the spring is just right to hold the edge of a small etch part. You can rock it until the part is vertical.  

 

Phil

 

[37114]

More progress this morning as I woke up at 4.30 and had a poorly cat to attend to. The chassis and body are now mated. I needed to tweak the hopper supports at the bottom.cross member to allow them to fit to the hopper body. The fit on the chassis was good as well so gave some confidence that the chassis might be something near square. At this point the instructions suggest folding down the V irons but in hindsight I would do this before fitting the body in future as it makes soldering them in place easier.

 

After that the bufferbeam fittings are installed, the Oleo buffers are a lovely bit of kit. Rather than solder them in place I used Cyano as it is a difficult location to access, again in hindsight I would have been tempted to put them on much earlier in the build. Check photos for the lamp iron location,  the APCM ones are near the right buffer as you look at the wagon, other types seem to have varied the location.