Brighty1674 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Hi there.....I am in the process of scratchbuilding a Pooley gwr ex “bloater” fish van ......the van is from the excellent Paul Bartlett photos which are very good for detail......the question I would like to know is what colour would these vans be painted in GWR days....would they stay the same as the “bloater” ...brown, or would they have been painted gwr grey or did Pooly have their own colour.......I have looked on the internet And found some BR vans in different colours and read the excellent article “little didcot” by Castle but Do not seem to find what colour they would have been painted in GWR days.......any help would be gratefully received.... regards.......dave Brighty...... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillCav Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 I can't find anything written down on this. I've only found pictures of diagram CC2 Pooley vans in GWR days. One photo from the 1940s has the monogram, the signwriting doesn't look white and the body looks a lighter shade than the frame. so I'll stick my neck out and say I think they were brown. (Ducks quickly and runs away) Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 On 18/06/2020 at 13:32, Brighty1674 said: the van is from the excellent Paul Bartlett photos Reference please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighty1674 Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share Posted June 19, 2020 Hi miss prism......here is the van...it looks to me that this could be the BR colour all be it very faded and scruffy, when converted would Pooly have left it brown as per the original colour of the “bloater” or had they their own colour scheme, I have since found a iron mink converted to one of their vans and it is gwr grey with the round all still present, your thoughts would be appreciated.....dave..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Thanks. I can find no reference to a Pooley Van conversion from an S9 in GWR times. The PB pic shows a standard BR(W) NPCCS livery of crimson and black ends. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighty1674 Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share Posted June 19, 2020 Thank you for your information, much appreciated, looks like it will be a BR Pooly van now instead of GWR one....I have found the one Will saw the CC2 in Russell wagon book but as you say no sign of a “bloater” conversion for gwr......thank you again........dave Brighty...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Zero Gravitas Posted June 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Miss Prism said: Thanks. I can find no reference to a Pooley Van conversion from an S9 in GWR times. The PB pic shows a standard BR(W) NPCCS livery of crimson and black ends. At the risk of appearing controversial, and given the departmental numbering of DW150267; I’m tempted to say that’s actually the short-lived “gulf red” livery as applied for a relatively short period in the early 1960s. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Zero Gravitas said: At the risk of appearing controversial, and given the departmental numbering of DW150267; I’m tempted to say that’s actually the short-lived “gulf red” livery as applied for a relatively short period in the early 1960s. Ok. I know nothing about gulf red application. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 14 hours ago, Zero Gravitas said: At the risk of appearing controversial, and given the departmental numbering of DW150267; I’m tempted to say that’s actually the short-lived “gulf red” livery as applied for a relatively short period in the early 1960s. It is the same livery that a number of Ballast Brakes based in the North East were carrying this livery till the late 1980's. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerballastbrake/e3efd4828 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerballastbrake/e37382084 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 DW150267 was converted in 1961 so could have been originally painted in gulf red. In 1981 it was sold to the Dean Forest Railway. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted June 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2020 "Shirtbutton" logos are only in yellow on brown stock. If the van had been grey it would have had "GW" letters like ordinary freight vans. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighty1674 Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 On 19/06/2020 at 19:49, Miss Prism said: Thanks. I can find no reference to a Pooley Van conversion from an S9 in GWR times. The PB pic shows a standard BR(W) NPCCS livery of crimson and black ends. Hi there............I am just at the stage with this wagon for painting and as can be seen from some of the quotes it could be that H .Pooly did not convert the bloater fish vans from gwr just iron minks .....the question I was asking is is there a definitive reference book or article that confirms when these “bloater” vans were converted to vans for H Pooly into BR stock or I am hoping that perhaps one van may have been converted in gwr days so that I can paint my wagon in gwr colours.......if not I will paint it in BR colours as per Paul Bartlett photos.........your assistance would be appreciated..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighty1674 Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 Hi there......I have decided to paint this wagon in gwr colours but I do appreciate that there is no conclusive proof that there was one, I have looked through numerous books and it seems that it is possible there were a few converted large covered vans so I am happy to say it is a representation.......the wagon was based on a ken line chassis kit with the rest made from plasticard, brass strip from eileens emporium and the transfers were from black square decals who I find extremely good both in cost and quickness in supplying my order......next job is another Pooly van the small 10;foot planked van as per Mr Russell, GWR wagon book..... 7 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 I don't know if this helps but sister van DW150236 was a very faded red by the time of this photo https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/7337167714/in/photolist-cbmUkC 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 On 12/07/2020 at 13:31, Brighty1674 said: Hi there......I have decided to paint this wagon in gwr colours but I do appreciate that there is no conclusive proof that there was one, I have looked through numerous books and it seems that it is possible there were a few converted large covered vans so I am happy to say it is a representation.......the wagon was based on a ken line chassis kit with the rest made from plasticard, brass strip from eileens emporium and the transfers were from black square decals who I find extremely good both in cost and quickness in supplying my order......next job is another Pooly van the small 10;foot planked van as per Mr Russell, GWR wagon book..... You have made a lovely job of the van. I hope to do one in 7mm in a year or 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighty1674 Posted December 26, 2020 Author Share Posted December 26, 2020 Hi there 37114......thank you for your comments.....I really enjoyed making the wagon even though there seems to be no conclusive proof that there was one in gwr colours, but equally there does not seem to be any proof that there was not one in gwr colours, as I said earlier it is a representation of the wagon and I was very pleased with the outcome.......dave brighty..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium NCB Posted December 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 26, 2020 (edited) Was the van sold to Pooley or did it retain GWR ownership? If the latter, it should probably stay in GWR colours, even with Pooley branding. Edited December 26, 2020 by NCB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) The 'Pooley' vans were not in revenue stock, to which end I would contend they 'may' have been painted black in GWR ( and BR ) days, as with other 'non-revenue' stock such as Loco Coal wagons and PW stock, and many shunters trucks. . 'Pooley' survivors received the Gulf red livery, if required, although, I recall one still in black livery, parked alongside the Q.A.Dock, Cardiff circa 1976. . There is a photo of a LWB Mink conversion, DW15000, ( albeit an S&T Tool Van ), which stood for several years around 1970, opposite Platform 1 at Cardiff General and that van was painted black. . Brian R https://flic.kr/p/YjCn2o Edited January 7, 2021 by br2975 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Bevan Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 A good thing to do would be to ask Peter Bevan @ bevandesign@gmail.com He is gened-up on these things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Goodness only know what the original colours were on this, the end looks like faded maroon, and the sides look brown. : Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said: Goodness only know what the original colours were on this, the end looks like faded maroon, and the sides look brown. : This is what it looked like nearly 40 years ago. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/pooley/e2694867c Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 On 07/01/2021 at 16:10, br2975 said: The 'Pooley' vans were not in revenue stock, to which end I would contend they 'may' have been painted black in GWR ( and BR ) days, as with other 'non-revenue' stock such as Loco Coal wagons and PW stock, and many shunters trucks. . 'Pooley' survivors received the Gulf red livery, if required, although, I recall one still in black livery, parked alongside the Q.A.Dock, Cardiff circa 1976. . There is a photo of a LWB Mink conversion, DW15000, ( albeit an S&T Tool Van ), which stood for several years around 1970, opposite Platform 1 at Cardiff General and that van was painted black. . Brian R https://flic.kr/p/YjCn2o When we stripped this down it was GWR Brown underneath layers of newer paint. ISTR there was evidence of lettering and a GWR shirtbutton roundel. So that's the colour it got painted. https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/237/no-82917-pooley-workshop-van http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=9048 I can't remember what livery it was on purchase though. I have vague memories that it had received a coat of grey before restoration started. Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 When Derek Foster bought the Pooley Van from Central Wagon in 1978 it was painted in a faded red ... Gulf red perhaps as the attached photo (27.5.79) shows. Apparently, although labelled for Chester, the van was used latterly at Bold Colliery and Pilkington's Cowley Hill works. When Derek bought a larger ex Pooley van (converted from an LNW 6wh CCT) he sold the GWR van to Dave Rawlinson who, as Jason says, sanded off the red and previous coats down to bare wood. I don't remember seeing brown but, being involved in other Steamport projects at the time, could have missed it. As the van wasn't NPCS (it wasn't vacuum braked) I would have thought that it would have been grey before conversion for Pooley's use - unless Pooley's had theirs painted brown pre Gulf red???? Unfortunately, as with all Dave's projects, bless him, the restoration was never finished. Cheers, Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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