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P.C.M

Llanbourne North Wales in the 80s.

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The 37 could do with toning down a touch to my eye - shiny models just don't look right to me!

 

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Interesting point that James and one which I entirely agree with, basically. But, how do you turn a pristine model into a realistic looking ex-works loco? In theory, it already should be ex-works, and yet, as you say, it doesn't look right. It looks like the toy/model it actually is.

 

It's a problem I'm facing at the moment with a Deltic which is to be in "as preserved condition", which should in theory mean that it's already immaculate and does not need anything doing to it. My plan at the moment is to weather it and then remove virtually all the weathering. This should make the nooks and crannies of the locos (grilles, door lines, etc, etc) stand out and take away the "toy" look and also give the paintwork/bogies a slightly more realistic look. Any views from other RMWebbers on this would be welcomed though!

 

Sorry if you think this is hijacking your thread Peter. I just thought it was an interesting point!

 

Cheers,

Dave

Waverley West

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Interesting point that James and one which I entirely agree with, basically. But, how do you turn a pristine model into a realistic looking ex-works loco? In theory, it already should be ex-works, and yet, as you say, it doesn't look right. It looks like the toy/model it actually is.

 

It's a problem I'm facing at the moment with a Deltic which is to be in "as preserved condition", which should in theory mean that it's already immaculate and does not need anything doing to it. My plan at the moment is to weather it and then remove virtually all the weathering. This should make the nooks and crannies of the locos (grilles, door lines, etc, etc) stand out and take away the "toy" look and also give the paintwork/bogies a slightly more realistic look. Any views from other RMWebbers on this would be welcomed though!

 

Sorry if you think this is hijacking your thread Peter. I just thought it was an interesting point!

 

Cheers,

Dave

Waverley West

 

I have modelled a few preserved locos in the past, things that I noted and some are applicable to ex works as well:

- Exhaust soot collects round the exhaust port after even a short while of running.

- Dead flies on the front end would often appear on the first run.

- On many preserved locos only the outside edges of the bogies have been painted, and the ends are actually still dirty etc, Likewise wheel sets. This often because a number of preserved lines don't have access to lifting facilities.

- The finish of most RTR models is quite satin, whereas ex works the finish was quite glossy.

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Guest Digital

Good to see Llanbourne on the new forum.

Excellent layout with some great photos.

John

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Hi Peter,

 

It was great to log on tonight and find you have your old thread up and running on here. I always look forward to seeing new pictures of your layout and trains as it just seems to capture the atmosphere of the time period so well and I will look forward to following your extension progress.

 

Thanks,

Mark

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- The finish of most RTR models is quite satin, whereas ex works the finish was quite glossy.

 

One of the things rarely modelled in R-T-R (or in models as a whole) are the surface imperfections, often there from new. A surface will be rippled where a metal skin has been attached by welding, screwing or rivetting. On a preserved item there is also likely to be further surface distortion caused by the odd bump or scrape down the years, particularly where such a skin is non load-bearing over a frame; witness the 'Peaks'. One reason given by British Rail for (briefly) adopting the airless spray was that the reduced surface reflections given by the semi-gloss finish against the traditional full gloss made the surface look smoother. Of course, vehicles built using extruded aluminium can have a really smooth finish so, in theory, should look more 'right' in gloss than a model of a welded steel coach would, where the prototype is naturally rippled.

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Thanks Phill,

Glad you found me, and like the thread. I will be following your blog, I am looking forwards to seeing that 47 in action.biggrin.gif

 

Cheers Peter,

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Great! So we can expect progress on 01 Jan 2010 then:blink:? Only kidding, only kidding https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif You can unload the ammo now Peter..............Peter:o?

 

Seriously I love this layout. I travelled the North Wales coast quite a few times in me spotting days. Either direct from Manchester Victoria or I would use the change of trains excuse to go via Crewe just to cop a shed load of locos on me way. I found Holyhead to be quite boring but Llandudno Junc was the best place to stop off. Loads of things happening and the chance to trundle upto Llandudno itself or down to Ffestinniog.

 

keep the updates coming Peter,

 

regards,

 

Mark

 

 

Hi Mark,

Progress by 01 Jan 2010, Is that a challenge, I will see what I can do.icon_thumbsup2.gif

 

Cheers Peter,

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Hi Peter,

 

Looking at that very impressive overall view of the station area I notice that the track actually looks as though it is used, especially the ballast which looks as though years and years worth of oil, ash, coal dust etc etc has fallen on it.

 

Very well thought out indeed :-)

 

Jim

 

Thanks Jim,

I am quite happy with how the track and ballast looks, though it is code 100 it does fool a few people.

 

Cheers Peter,

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Great to see Llanbourne on the new forum Peter! A lovely layout - and nicely observed. The 37 could do with toning down a touch to my eye - shiny models just don't look right to me!

 

Narrowing the 37 bogies is quite straight forward. You'll need a little bottle and a slitting disc fitted to a mini drill. Basically you cut off the frame (flush with the back side of the frames) very carefully. I left the wheelsets in and went slowly but I guess best practice would be to strip the frame off the bogie to do this modification!

The amount of material the disc removes is about 1mm - perfect! Just clean up with a knife or file and re-attach - I just used a quick setting household superglue. Job done. I also moved the frames marginally up to make the gap between body and bogie slightly less.

 

I hope you do come over to the blog format - it's a really nice way of documenting a layout or modelling workbench progress - keeping comments in line with original posts, and to new readers just showing the authors ramblings.

 

Posting is no different to creating a thread - and I wouldn't worry about blog etiquette or anything - creating blog posts like this thread is more than acceptable. I try and keep new blog topics to new subject matters but you could add a blog entry for each new update - just as you do with a thread. Job done. Worth a play for an hour to see what you think! https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

 

 

Thanks James,

I will have a look at doing that bogie mod, my only concern is will the super glue have enough plastic to bond to. I like the idea of moving the frames up as there is a bit of a gap.

 

It would seem that you have started some debate about the finish on the loco.smile.gif

 

Cheers Peter,

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Thanks for the comments and feedback everyone,

It seems James has made a good point, I am quite happy with the finish on the model though as 37114 said a bit of weathering around the exhust ports would improve things,I think if I sprayed the model to a Matt that would also look wrong, as would gloss which as Bernard said ex-works locos are painted in. See the pic of the real loco on my brothers 'class 37 nose ends' thread page 2.

As Dave said any thoughts are welcome.

 

Anyway here are a couple more pics.

 

Cheers Peter,

 

 

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Thanks for the comments and feedback everyone,

It seems James has made a good point, I am quite happy with the finish on the model though as 37114 said a bit of weathering around the exhust ports would improve things,I think if I sprayed the model to a Matt that would also look wrong, as would gloss which as Bernard said ex-works locos are painted in. See the pic of the real loco on my brothers 'class 37 nose ends' thread page 2.

As Dave said any thoughts are welcome.

 

Anyway here are a couple more pics.

 

Cheers Peter,

 

 

 

 

Peter - consider spraying the model in satin varnish, and then a little exhaust weathering - with just a touch of dust on the brake pads I'd suggest would make the world of difference :)

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Peter - consider spraying the model in satin varnish, and then a little exhaust weathering - with just a touch of dust on the brake pads I'd suggest would make the world of difference https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

 

 

That, and a dirty wash applied and then wiped off over the grilles to make them stand out and look a bit more "3D".

 

Dave

Waverley West

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One of the things rarely modelled in R-T-R (or in models as a whole) are the surface imperfections, often there from new.

Aha, the holy grail! I should imagine it is rarely modelled as it is extremely difficult to do convincingly, particularly in 4mm scale, and I would go as far to suggest that it would be impossible (and not really required) in 2mm scale! I've seen it done on a couple of US HO models though, including one stunning Railbox boxcar by a guy called Butch Eyler.

 

Although ex works locos are glossy, I don't think a full gloss finish works well, especially not in 2 and 4mm scales - you might just get away with it in 7mm scale. I think the a finish on the glossy side of satin could well work.

 

I'd agree with James and WW - a coat of varnish, shadows in the grilles and a bit of dry brush highlighting of surfaces that would catch the light (top of grilles etc) by dry brushing a lighter shade of the base colour. I'd also consider painting the underframe a slightly lighter shade of black - true black never looks quite right on a model, and adding some touches of brake dust. You could go to town on the underframe by doing further dry brush highlighting of that as well.

 

I think that convincingly representing an ex-works loco is quite possibly the toughest weathering challenge - it requires a lot more work and thought than a heavily weathered loco in many ways.

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I absolutely agree that creating the surface imperfections would be very, very hard, added to which such a model may well not conform to the usual expectations. Given that when you look along a glossy Mk.1 coach you can see lots of mainly vertically biased ripples, I sometimes wonder whether you could get the effect by brush painting, keeping all the strokes vertical. Perhaps even if you achieved that sort of finish you would have then to force people to look at them through a periscope or something so they're seeing the model from a perspective closer to that which you would observe such things on the prototype. The fact that it's probably easier to view a larger scale model this way is of significance.

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Yes, I think you're spot on there - if you considered how far away you'd have to be for a real loco to look 4mm size, then you'd be have to be quite a long way away from it and probably such a distance that you'd not really notice the imperfections much.

 

I think that there may be a case for it in 7mm scale, and definitely for scales larger than that - it's certainly something that I've seen armour modellers do in 1:35 and above.

 

I like your idea about the Mk1 - perhaps something like tipp-ex applied with a thin brush to represent the ribs could work?

 

Peter - apologies for taking this even further OT!

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I'm also glad you are continuing your excellent layout in these new pages. Doing away wth llandudno and Llandudno Junction is an interesting concept, although I wonder what happens to the great and the good living in Llandudno....biggrin.gif

 

I have also borrowed a few trains which allows me to run the occassional class 37 on passenger,
The 15.00 Cardiff to Rhyl and 19.06 Rhyl-Cardiff in 1989 could be extended to your station as these trains were the first on the North Wales line to make use of Class 37's. 37407 Loch Long, 37 427 Bont-Y-Bermo and 37430 Cumbran spring to mind. All carried large-logo livery.

 

Larry G.

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I'm also glad you are continuing your excellent layout in these new pages. Doing away wth llandudno and Llandudno Junction is an interesting concept, although I wonder what happens to the great and the good living in Llandudno....https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

 

The 15.00 Cardiff to Rhyl and 19.06 Rhyl-Cardiff in 1989 could be extended to your station as these trains were the first on the North Wales line to make use of Class 37's. 37407 Loch Long, 37 427 Bont-Y-Bermo and 37430 Cumbran spring to mind. All carried large-logo livery.

 

Larry G.

 

 

Thanks Larry,

There is a nice pic of 37431 leaving Flint in your 'Colour of North Wales main line' book wink.gif The timetable I have done for the layout has a train arriving from Cardiff at 16.00 which is booked for a class 33, but on Fridays I have it booked for a 37/4 . I could do as you said though and extend the Rhyl service I will have to see if I have room in my time table, nice idea.biggrin.gif

 

Cheers Peter,

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Thanks for your thoughts and ideas on 37693, and no worries re hijacking the thread it all helps anyone reading the thread.smile.gif

I have had a bit of a play with 37693 and I am now really pleased with how it has turned out. I am a bit worried if I add any more weathering I will no longer have an ex-works loco.

I have added a bit of muck around the exhust ports roof fan and in the cantrail grilles. The nose grilles have had a bit of black mixed with brown and the foot holes under the doors and other recesses along the bottom edge of the loco have had a bit of work. The bogies have had just a bit of light weathering with a hint of track colour and brake dust. After looking at a few pictures I noticed even after a couple of test runs the bogies would soon get a build up of muck, I may still add a bit as I am not sure it shows up to well in the pictures.

So here is 37693 paired with 33026 on the return working back to Crewe.

 

Cheers Peter,

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Very nice looking layout, lots of inspiration there.

 

Is there a track plan with dimensions please?

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Superb Peter, as soon as I got the gen, went straight down to Llanbourne and managed to bash 693 all the way to Crewe! icon_e_biggrin.gif

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That's a huge improvement Peter - awesome. Shows how restrained weathering can really lift an out of the box model.

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Hi Peter

 

Llanbourne is a great layout, really reminds me of both llandudno and the Junction, feels like I am back in North Wales in my youth days with the Crosville buses running about

 

Will the extension works allow you to run Freighliner trains as found on the N Wales coast?

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Hi ajdown. I will post a plan here soon.

 

Thanks Alex, I thought I saw your arm waving out the front window.laugh.gif

 

Hi James, Thanks for your encouragement in helping me to go a step further with the model. I am pleased with how it looks now, though I think a picture in natural light would look better.

 

Cheers Peter,

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