Proceedings of the Castle Aching Parish Council, 1905

[Hroth]

31 minutes ago, Annie said:

Oh yes the mud, - sooooo much mud........

 

Stand in the corner, and we'll hose you down...

 

And back to the dipping, the last thing the farmer did after dipping the sheep was to dip the sheepdogs too!

 

 

Here Shadow!!!!

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

what has just floated through my mind (like a dipped sheep) is what did the farmer do with the insecticide in the dip once finished?

 

It must have been a boring beat for PC Plod too, having to amuse himself by parking up his Velocette by the single telephone post in the district and going to watch the sheepdipping!

 

The policeman is there to ensure that the dip is disposed of in accordance with DEFRA regulations...

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

Nowadays, the problem is the selective editing of the past to avoid giving offence to ethnicities, etc.

 

Nowadays, the problem is the selective editing of the past. Full stop.

 

Not that that's anything new; all histories are selective, and always have been, and always will be, for both political and practical reasons.

 

The selective editing-out of the economic impact of the slave trade in C18th Britain, and its associated human impact, until very recently, is a clear example, and restoring those missing bits to the story seems to make some people who have grown-up during "the period of redaction" (of that particular bit of history) very uncomfortable indeed. What the NT has caused controversy by doing is not hiding this subject, but un-hiding it.

 

My pet beef (a Red Sussex) is the selective editing of World War Two, to create a sort of "Re-Foundation Myth of Britain", in which a bloke with a homburg hat and a fat cigar is The Creator Deity.

 

But then, I'm sure we all have our pet beefs.

 

(Oh, and The English Civil War: why, if you follow almost any standard school history syllabus, did it not actually happen at all?)

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

The Creator Deity.

 

Alternative creator deities are available; though the one illustrated below is perhaps best thought of as chairperson of the collective of deities.

[Regularity]

10 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

I recalled that in the peak of the pandemic Denmark had  euthanised 15 million small fluffy animals. I looked it up again, hoping they were  lemmings, which would have enabled me to make a pithy comparison with brits who travel overseas at the moment such as "Dont go to Denmark, look what happened  last time!" or similar, but they were minks.

Bu99er. 

[My emphasis]

I know not everyone likes the GWR, but hadn't realised that there was such antipathy towards said railway company's vans in Denmark...

[Regularity]

25 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

My pet beef (a Red Sussex) is the selective editing of World War Two, to create a sort of "Re-Foundation Myth of Britain", in which a bloke with a homburg hat and a fat cigar is The Creator Deity.

Ah yes, the guy who was an out and out racist, and proposed sterilising the less intelligent of the working class.

Quote

(Oh, and The English Civil War: why, if you follow almost any standard school history syllabus, did it not actually happen at all?)

Case in point, to which of several such examples are you referring? I suspect the one you intend was actually three distinct periods of armed struggle, and took place in three separate kingdoms united under a common crown...

21 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Alternative creator deities are available; though the one illustrated below is perhaps best thought of as chairperson of the collective of deities.

A style of government which was particularly effective, but which PMQs, with the ridiculous idea that the Prime Minister should be master of every detail of every policy so that it can generate sound-bites for television, denies us.

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Alternative creator deities are available; though the one illustrated below is perhaps best thought of as chairperson of the collective of deities.

Reminds me of a former headmaster who got religion, trained for the priesthoòd whill still a headmaster,  was not interested in running the school properly, and was extremely unpleasant.

 

Happiest days of my life? Bu@@er that!

 

[Nearholmer]

42 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Case in point, to which of several such examples are you referring?

 

Shorthand for the events of 1642-51, none of which appear to merit a mention in most basic history syllabuses (OK, I'm out of date, maybe they do crop-up in the latest school syllabus, and my children haven't got to that bit yet).

 

Trouble is, of course, any history syllabus is based around decisions about which bits to leave out, and what emphases to apply within the bits that are left in ......... which, much to my delight, is a point that is emphasised in schools now, whereas when I were a lad it certainly wasn't. We were taught HISTORY, and I dropped the subject at the earliest opportunity, because I could feel there was something wrong with it, although I didn't know what at the time.

[Compound2632]

20 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Trouble is, of course, any history syllabus is based around decisions about which bits to leave out, and what emphases to apply within the bits that are left in ......... which, much to my delight, is a point that is emphasised in schools now, whereas when I were a lad it certainly wasn't. We were taught HISTORY, and I dropped the subject at the earliest opportunity, because I could feel there was something wrong with it, although I didn't know what at the time.

 

Talk to anyone teaching History (the subject) from primary to tertiary and they'll tell you their aim is to get their pupils to become historians: to apply historical method and critical reasoning. Those seem to essential skills in a democracy.

[rocor]

17 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Now, here comes trouble https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57084732

 

Recipe for the return from holiday of large numbers of people who should quarantine, but many of whom will “stretch the rules a bit”.

"Instead, arrivals from these places will be required to quarantine at home for 10 days and take a Covid test before departure and on arrival."

 

Of course, they will "stretch the rules a bit". Whatever happened to the requirement that returning travellers had to quarantine for two weeks at the Bates States (regulated) hotel.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

 

I know not everyone likes the GWR, 

 

It saddens me, but I am saddest for their sakes, because they are yet to gain enlightenment.

 

In the meantime, I sit, like patience on a monument, smiling at grief. 

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The policeman is there to ensure that the dip is disposed of in accordance with DEFRA regulations...

Wasn't it MAFF back then?

 

His main concern was "You get that dip emptied when you've finished so the kiddies don't drown in it!"

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

I know not everyone likes the GWR, but hadn't realised that there was such antipathy towards said railway company's vans in Denmark...

 

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[Edwardian]

3 hours ago, Hroth said:

Wasn't it MAFF back then?

 

 

 

 

It depends on when, in this Fifties-style idyll, we have found ourselves.  according to Wiki:

 

The Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (MAFF) was a United Kingdom government department created by the Board of Agriculture Act 1889 (52 & 53 Vict. c.30) and at that time called the Board of Agriculture, and then from 1903 the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries, and from 1919 the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries. It attained its final name in 1955 with the addition of responsibilities for the British food industry to the existing responsibilities for agriculture and the fishing industry, a name that lasted until the Ministry was dissolved in 2002, at which point its responsibilities had been merged into the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra).

 

So, MAF or MAFF.

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

So, MAF or MAFF.

 

Pretty much on the cusp.

 

The police started using Velocette LEs in the early 1950s and they were widespread (over 50 forces used them) by the mid-50s, so I'd imagine that the rural bobby on his Noddy Bike* was a recognisable figure by the time the illustration was created, which would date the idyll to the mid-late 50s.

 

* Nothing to do with Blyton.  Apparently due to the handling characteristics of the bike, and the requirement that policemen salute officers of Superintendant rank or above, dispensation was given that a mounted policeman could give a smart "nod" in salute rather than removing his hand from the handlebars!

 

[monkeysarefun]

9 hours ago, rocor said:

"Instead, arrivals from these places will be required to quarantine at home for 10 days and take a Covid test before departure and on arrival."

 

Of course, they will "stretch the rules a bit". Whatever happened to the requirement that returning travellers had to quarantine for two weeks at the Bates States (regulated) hotel.

I hate to be a Debbie Downer  and I realise that I'm preaching to the choir here but I don't think that will necessarily work. Here all our cases that have escaped quarantine, especially the Sth African variant and your one have started with quarantine workers who had no direct contact with the case that it was later determined they caught it from.

 

Sometimes they never even visited the floor that the case was staying on, the virus just got into the air conditioning and spread around. I assume that home quarantine can be in blocks of flats or with other family members who aren't made to stay home too but are free to come and go? Also, several of our cases tested negative on day 12 of their quarantine stay and yet were positive on the day of their intended release, 10 days isn't going to cut it. I dont want to say bad things about your government, I'm sure they mean well but are just a little confused but who is giving them advice here?

 

On a different note - asbestos socks, what ever happened to them?

 

 

[Nearholmer]

"Home Self-Isolation" is, in practice, an oxymoron, simple as that.

 

Leaving aside the possibility of transmission from people who do follow the rules to the letter, the far bigger danger is the significant number who will "just pop down the shop for urgent supplies (fags and booze)", or "have Aunty Doreen and her two over for a barbeque; we'll all be outdoors", or go to the supermarket to stock-up on the way home from the airport, as people did last year, or, as some complete idiot got fined for doing, go to three pubs, and a nightclub the evening after coming home, thereby starting a town-wide outbreak (Bolton IIRC) all by himself.

 

As of now, an Indian Variant has arrived in the UK, that stable door having been left open for far too long, and is spreading even quicker than our home-grown Kent Variant did when it first emerged, so we can doubtless expect plenty of other new variants soon, although I can't tell from where, because these "amber holidays" don't actually seem to be advertised yet. Is it too much to hope that the tour operators are are having second thoughts?

 

(Those socks look good; must order a pair as a Whitsuntide present for the Chairman of EasyJet)

[Nearholmer]

43 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

who is giving them advice here?

 

Our PM is famous for his ability to choose advisers, so no worries on that score.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

10 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

Our PM is famous for his ability to choose advisers, so no worries on that score.

 

 

 

Actually, he ''follows The Science'', usually after, rather sportingly, giving The Science a 3-4 week head-start. 

[Edwardian]

11 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Pretty much on the cusp.

 

The police started using Velocette LEs in the early 1950s and they were widespread (over 50 forces used them) by the mid-50s, so I'd imagine that the rural bobby on his Noddy Bike* was a recognisable figure by the time the illustration was created, which would date the idyll to the mid-late 50s.

 

* Nothing to do with Blyton.  Apparently due to the handling characteristics of the bike, and the requirement that policemen salute officers of Superintendant rank or above, dispensation was given that a mounted policeman could give a smart "nod" in salute rather than removing his hand from the handlebars!

 

 

I wondered if the galvanised steel woven wire stock fencing - sheep or pig netting - might also offer a clue?

 

When would this have become commonplace in the UK?

 

 

EDIT:

 

I've just noticed Stephen's comment below that the wire stock fencing was common by the late '60s. I appreciate Kevin's comment about its Victorian origins, but this particular style of fencing seems modern to me and it doesn't seem right to me that it would be in widespread use until well after the War.

 

My further thought was, could the Busy be there in an official capacity?  Bi-annual or annual dipping was compulsory at certain periods.

 

I read that sheep scab required dipping and was eradicated by 1952.  Dipping took place under police supervision.  

 

Presumably, then, compulsory dipping ceased from 1952 and was in abeyance until a further outbreak of sheep scab in 1972. I read that ''This time police were largely replaced by MAFF inspectors''.  Note ''largely''

 

Is this '50s-style idyll in fact dating from the 1970s?

 

See here

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Edwardian
Further information

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

I wondered if the galvanised steel woven wire stock fencing - sheep or pig netting - might also offer a clue?

 

When would this have become commonplace in the UK?

 

I would say that it has always been a part of my conscious existence. So, well-established by the late 60s.

 

Those children are going to get splinters and snag themselves on nails. How do I know?

[Annie]

11 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

Sometimes they never even visited the floor that the case was staying on, the virus just got into the air conditioning and spread around.

We had proven cases of surface contact transmission in our quarantine hotels as well.  Even when everyone is following the rules to the letter the virus is going to get out so the whole notion of safely going for a jolly holiday at the moment is utter madness.  But then I've said this before I don't want to bore you all to tears. 

[Nearholmer]

We explored woven fencing in CA years ago - invented by a chap from Norfolk in the mid -C19th IIRC, although Wikipedia says it was invented in the US in 1873.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Hroth]

35 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Presumably, then, compulsory dipping ceased from 1952 and was in abeyance until a further outbreak of sheep scab in 1972. I read that ''This time police were largely replaced by MAFF inspectors''.  Note ''largely''

 

Is this '50s-style idyll in fact dating from the 1970s?

 

I was hoping that a particular item of the policemans uniform, his duty armband, would narrow the field down, but they were withdrawn in the late 60s/early 70s so thats not much help!

 

The children are rather too well dressed to be 70s, so perhaps that moves the range back a bit.

 

The dippers look odd. The blue protective coats look "official" rather than what a farm labourer would wear to go a'dipping, also the glossy wellies and that the bloke on the right appears to be wearing a collar and tie and is apparently "well groomed", coupled with the attendance of the Law suggests that the dipping might be being done by MAF(F) operatives, under the supervision of the farmer.

 

As for the fencing, apart from the wire mesh, everything else is wood rather than the tubular steel you would expect in a more modern farming environment, so if not mid-late 50's then it could be early 60's but still archaic enough!

 

 

[Compound2632]

I've looked up the provenance of the illustration but I'm not going to spoil the fun. All I'll say is, I think the style was becoming just a bit dated by the date of publication.