Trainspotting at Chelmsford in the early 80s

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, MyRule1 said:

Not directly but the Great Eastern Railway Society have a number of downloads for purchase which might be of interest to you,.

 

https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/files-emporium-home

 

 

 

Thanks - I've been a member for a couple of years. No WTTs from that period sadly

[H2O]

2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

I *think* the centre road was effectively an extended crossover - the line you entered from was not the line you ended up on at the other end (ladder junction?). I think there's too much equipment where it used to be to be easy to re-instate.

From this photo that looks correct so it doesn't appear to have been a bidirectional passing loop at that time (early 60s?).

 

farm4.staticflickr.com/3191/2811863063_fd34530e57_z.jpg

 

Agree not easy to reinstate but from recent pictures it looks like there isn't anything impossible to move if they needed to put back the middle line.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by H2O
Better wording

[MyRule1]

9 hours ago, H2O said:

From this photo that looks correct so it doesn't appear to have been a bidirectional passing loop at that time (early 60s?).

 

farm4.staticflickr.com/3191/2811863063_fd34530e57_z.jpg

 

Agree not easy to reinstate but from recent pictures it looks like there isn't anything impossible to move if they needed to put back the middle line.

 

 

I would guess their is no operational reason for the line to be reinstated this document gives the latest options on the GE main line

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Network-Rail-Great-Eastern-Main-Line-Study-2019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwict_Lg6-DsAhUxQ0EAHbEnAX4QFjADegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3wa10qyqE0xn4f8Wiqu_WY

[Johann Marsbar]

On 16/10/2020 at 20:45, Penrhos1920 said:

Every week day morning, sometime around 11 - 11:30, there was a north bound postal train that stopped for 5 minutes.  I’ve always thought that it was from Liverpool St, but recently I had a search through a GE coach working program and I couldn’t find it.  So maybe it started somewhere else?  Here is a bog standard GUV, NJV W86370 hauled by 47051.

 

 

 

I just had a look in a Summer 1982 WTT and as pointed out earlier, there is nothing around 11.30 fitting that description.

There is, however, a 1452  3F20 Liverpool St to Parkeston parcels that stopped at Chelmsford between 15.26 and 15.32, though that is quite a difference to your times!

[Izzy]

My understanding with the 309's is that they were supposed to be the first of a 25Kv 100mph EMU design mainly intended for use on the WCML, but which never developed after the decision to use loco hauled stock. The Clacton/Walton branch was of course chosen as the original test bed for 25Kv electrification and why they soon became known as the 'Clacton Electrics'. I have managed to codge up a couple of sets in 2mm , one maroon 4-car, one blue-grey 2/3/4-car and can't quite understand given the wide range of liveries they had over the years why models have never been produced.

 

As regards Chelmsford, here is a very crude trackplan I have quickly made from that in the GERS 1986 publication of the whole system in 1919 (to avoid copyright probs). You can see the very extensive lower goods yard and that extended middle crossover. IIRC this was next to both the Marconi and RHP works.

 

 

The viaduct is wider than you would assume it seems to accomodate the tracks. The odd time I have been back to Chelmsford in recent years I have got very confused, so much of it has been demolished and swept away I have trouble finding my bearings. Although I was born in St Johns hospital and my grandparents & many relations lived there all their lives my parents moved to a railway carriage by the coast when I was 3. Like so may others, going back to where you remember can often be a sobering experience.

 

Izzy

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I have managed to codge up a couple of sets in 2mm , one maroon 4-car, one blue-grey 2/3/4-car and can't quite understand given the wide range of liveries they had over the years why models have never been produced.

 

 

I would also like a 309 but that doesn't make it the best choice for a manufacturer:

I believe there are lots with bigger selling potential than a 309. 317-322 have some common features & have seen less modifications in their lifetime (309s changed coach configuration, used wrap around then flat windows & also had hopper windows fitted).

3rd rail variants also existed of 317-322 so it seems more profitable to design tooling to cover several variants of this family before tackling a 1-off class.

[Penrhos1920]

On 01/11/2020 at 08:50, Johann Marsbar said:

 

I just had a look in a Summer 1982 WTT and as pointed out earlier, there is nothing around 11.30 fitting that description.

There is, however, a 1452  3F20 Liverpool St to Parkeston parcels that stopped at Chelmsford between 15.26 and 15.32, though that is quite a difference to your times!

 

The photo was definitely March 1982.  Thinking about then I would have been at school during the week and nowhere near Chelmsford station, so it would have been a Saturday.

[Johann Marsbar]

33 minutes ago, Penrhos1920 said:

 

The photo was definitely March 1982.  Thinking about then I would have been at school during the week and nowhere near Chelmsford station, so it would have been a Saturday.

Well, in my WTT commencing 17.5.82 there is nothing in the Down direction on any day of the week around 11.30, BUT there is in the Up direction!

M-F you had the 3F09 Colchester to Liverpool St Parcels which stopped at Chelmsford 11.43 to 11.50, Saturdays it was the 3F09 again, but the Chelmsford times were 11.43 to 11.55.

[Flittersnoop]

On 23/10/2020 at 20:01, Penrhos1920 said:

A month or two later and I moved onto colour slide film and the first photo was of my second favourite train.  I can still remember how the whole station used to rumble and shake as the train itself rattled and squealed.  I’m fairly certain that it was bound for Felixstowe but where it had come from I don’t know.  The locomotives were a pair of Stratford 37s and this instance, very clean.  Disclaimer: not all Stratford 37s were this clean all the time.  So had there been a loco change at Temple Mills?

 

 

Unfortunately I didn’t get to photograph my favourite train.  It’s the south bound sand train hauled by a pair of 31s.  If I remember correctly the reason I never took a photo was that I was always on the wrong platform.  In the morning there was a gap between the last commuter train which cost full price and the first train for the cheap day returns to the smoke.  So I only ever saw it if we were going up to town for the day.  Incidentally, what was the name of the sidings it went to?

I think this might be a photo of the southbound sand train, although my photo shows it at Romford.

[Penrhos1920]

On 03/11/2020 at 21:50, Flittersnoop said:

I think this might be a photo of the southbound sand train, although my photo shows it at Romford.

 

Looks like it.  Thanks 

[Penrhos1920]

On 03/11/2020 at 20:37, Johann Marsbar said:

Well, in my WTT commencing 17.5.82 there is nothing in the Down direction on any day of the week around 11.30, BUT there is in the Up direction!

M-F you had the 3F09 Colchester to Liverpool St Parcels which stopped at Chelmsford 11.43 to 11.50, Saturdays it was the 3F09 again, but the Chelmsford times were 11.43 to 11.55.

 

I think that all of my B&W photos were taken on the same day.  So what time did the Up 1F35 pass through and the Down 2F7x to Colchester? 

[Johann Marsbar]

56 minutes ago, Penrhos1920 said:

 

I think that all of my B&W photos were taken on the same day.  So what time did the Up 1F35 pass through and the Down 2F7x to Colchester? 

In my Summer 82 WTT, 1F35 was the 0616 M-F Clacton-LSt service (Chelmsford 0703) or the 0607 Sat Clacton-Lst service (Chelmsford 0658).

I found a M-F 0805 LSt-Colchester service (Chelmsford 0847) with the headcode 2F78, but the only 70 series ones on a Saturday were Sudbury-Colchester DMU runs!

[Penrhos1920]

2 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

In my Summer 82 WTT, 1F35 was the 0616 M-F Clacton-LSt service (Chelmsford 0703) or the 0607 Sat Clacton-Lst service (Chelmsford 0658).

I found a M-F 0805 LSt-Colchester service (Chelmsford 0847) with the headcode 2F78, but the only 70 series ones on a Saturday were Sudbury-Colchester DMU runs!

Johann, thanks.  Looks like the head codes shown in both of those photos I posted don’t relate to the actual service as I was never trainspotting at Chelmsford that early in the morning. I’m starting to think that my memory is wrong and that all of these b&w photos are from a Saturday afternoon.

[Penrhos1920]

This is a Liverpool St bound service.  I’m not sure whether it’s come from Harwich or Lowestoft.  If my memory is right Harwich services had a pair of BGs at the London end and a RBR somewhere in the middle.  

 

Behind 37118 are 5 Mk1s and a Mk2 TSO.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

On 03/11/2020 at 21:50, Flittersnoop said:

I think this might be a photo of the southbound sand train, although my photo shows it at Romford.

The sand train was the only train I over took on my Honda C90 where the A12 runs next to the GER line between Boreham and Hatfield Peverel. More than once in both directions. Yes the sand train was moving.

[eastwestdivide]

8 hours ago, Penrhos1920 said:

This is a Liverpool St bound service.  I’m not sure whether it’s come from Harwich or Lowestoft.  If my memory is right Harwich services had a pair of BGs at the London end and a RBR somewhere in the middle

Maybe a relief boat train? I had a memorable run on a 37 with about 5 coaches to Harwich in 1982 on the evening boat train relief. 

[Mol_PMB]

On 31/10/2020 at 16:08, H2O said:

Great photo's of Chelmsford and a few other places I know.  I came to Essex in the early 90's and seen a few railway changes since then.  My only visit to Chelmsford before the 90's was in about 1982 coming out of London on a 12 car EMU to cycle in Essex.

 

A question I have about Chelmsford station is when the centre line between the platforms was taken out, I can't remember if it was there in '82.  I'd guess it was bi-directional for fast trains to avoid slower ones stopped in the station.  Would this be useful now or is Chelmsford important enough that all trains stop there?

I'm sure I can remember it being there when I was a young child. I was born in 1976 (in Chelmsford) so it probably was there in 1982. I appreciate that's a bit vague.

There are some nice aerial photos from an earlier period, for example these (if you log in you can zoom right in):

https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW001536

https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW043709

As mentioned elsewhere, I don't think it was really used as a loop. It wasn't really long enough to pass a decent length train (considering overlaps etc).

There was a loop on the up line just to the country end of the station that was definitely used as a freight train lay-bye.

 

I have fond memories of 309s, though they were slightly spoilt by the jaffa cake refurbishment.

Cheers,

Mol