Kink in track at rail joiners! How do I get rid of it?

[Simon G]

I am not experienced when it comes to laying track, and have ended up with a slight kink in the track where two sections of rail are joined.  The track is Peco code 100, and the curve radius of the track is about 450mm, ie similar to second radius.

 

The attached picture shows it.  It was worse, so I lifted and realigned the track which improved the kink, but tightened a part of the curve so that some locos have a bit in trouble going round it.  I need to lift the track to make the curve radius consistent, but fear that this will make the kink at the join worse again!

 

Would it help to lift the track, then solder the track joiners in place before fixing the track back down?  The track is currently fixed down with PVA, so is pretty easy to lift.  The attached picture shows the current position.

 

[KingEdwardII]

Basically what I do in these cases of joints on curves is to gently pre-bend the rails themselves on each side of the joint. Don't go overboard - you want the track to stay in gauge right around the curve. To assist with this, I keep all the chairs intact until I'm happy with the curve on both rails and only then cut away the chairs at the join. With patience I have been able to get smooth joints on curves in this way.

 

Yours,  Mike.

[Wheatley]

Not easy to see on a phone but I think what has happened is your rail ends are not quite level with each other before pushing the track together (I'm assuming its flexi). The bottom left hand rail is a mm or so further forward than yhe bottom rh rail. If you get both rails on both pieces of track square with each other across the ends first it should sort itself out. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Wheatley

[peterfgf]

I used some of these track clamps to hold the ends of the rails at the same length.  They were also very useful when joining track lengths together.  A little expensive but one of the better tools I've bought.

One way of avoiding kinks would be to stagger the joints so that there are not two joints at one position.

Peterfgf

 

https://www.fohrmann.com/en/track-clamps.html

[RobinofLoxley]

4 hours ago, Wheatley said:

Not easy to see on a phone but I think what has happened is your rail ends are not quite level with each other before pushing the track together (I'm assuming its flexi). The bottom left hand rail is a mm or so further forward than yhe bottom rh rail. If you get both rails on both pieces of track square with each other across the ends first it should sort itself out. 

I was going to say the same thing from a differnt perspective. The two rails actually meet at a slight angle - look at the alignment of the sleepers on each rail adjacent to the join. They need to be parallel, which will happen when the rail ends are the same length. The inner and outer curves dont seem to be maintaining gauge, which if the outside rail is at the 450mm radius, is going to be very difficult; possible if its the inside curve thats at 450. I have no experience with the track clamps but provided you are atempting to maintain the tracks parallel aroud the curve maybe some track gauges would be a good idea. I have found them invaluable but I am working to setrack  clearances and I dont know if they are available for other spacings; I would assume you get guages for Peco Streamline which is tighter than setrack.

[Derekl]

I have had this problem with Peco Code 100. Currently I am using Code 75, which being lighter in section seems to bend into shape more easily. I use Tracksetta gauges to keep the radius consistent through the join - there may not be one available for the radius you have chosen.

 

On Code 100 (and on 009) I have soldered the fish-plates at the joint and then curved the track - this seems to work and avoids the kink.

 

I see, though, that you have feed wires soldered to the fish-plates. I am not sure how much movement they have, but they may not be helping - they may be moving the track out at that point, causing the kink. I prefer to solder feeds direct to the track a little distance from the join.

[DCB]

I like to cut the webs between the sleepers on code 100 flexi so the sleepers are only connected on one side, usually one is cut one side then the third is cut the other and the fifth etc.

Also  I pre bend the rails quite a lot tighter than the final curve and hold it frm while the adhesive sets  (but it still kinks unless held by track pins.)   I usually put pins against the rails on areas particularly prone to kinking.  For some reason its always the bit I ballasted which kinks,  If you must use pva then maybe source some large radius HO curves as advertised in US magazines?   They seem to go up to 36" radius.

I have been known to cut the sleeper webs and ease Peco or Hornby steel set track out from 2nd radius to 3rd radius or larger, that absolutely stays put.  Sometimes I used the rails in streamline sleepers and again it stays put.  Soldering track needs very small temperature variations or you will rip the rails out of the sleepers.

[ColinK]

16 hours ago, peterfgf said:

I used some of these track clamps to hold the ends of the rails at the same length.  They were also very useful when joining track lengths together.  A little expensive but one of the better tools I've bought.

One way of avoiding kinks would be to stagger the joints so that there are not two joints at one position.

Peterfgf

 

https://www.fohrmann.com/en/track-clamps.html

Thanks for the link,. Having watched the video on their website I can see they will be useful when I start my next layout, hence I have ordered some.

[Chimer]

This is the reason why I would always as far as possible use Set-track curves if I need Set-Track radii ......

[mezzoman253]

I tend to stagger the joint by a few inches, it seems to put less strain on the joiners on reasonable radius curves.

 

For tight radius Set-Track is better, as Chimer said above.

 

Rob 

 

 

[RFS]

On 15/12/2020 at 15:36, Simon G said:

Would it help to lift the track, then solder the track joiners in place before fixing the track back down?  

 

No don't solder the track joiners in place. You need to allow for expansion and contraction in the rail as the temperature varies. Soldering will prevent that happening leading to buckled rails in hot weather. From the picture it appears there is no rail gap to cater for this expansion, so if you relay this piece of track make sure there's a 1mm gap between the rails to allow for this. 

[DLT]

On 15/12/2020 at 16:15, KingEdwardII said:

Basically what I do in these cases of joints on curves is to gently pre-bend the rails themselves on each side of the joint. Don't go overboard - you want the track to stay in gauge right around the curve. To assist with this, I keep all the chairs intact until I'm happy with the curve on both rails and only then cut away the chairs at the join. With patience I have been able to get smooth joints on curves in this way.

 

Yours,  Mike.

 

Mike is right, all you need to do is pre-curve the rail in the area of the join, perhaps the last two or three inches.  You will need to slide the rail out of the sleepers a little way to do this, and use a smooth pair of pliers do do the actual bending.  Needs a bit of trial & error, but you can't mess it up, if you bend it too far, you can just bend it back again!

 

The easiest approach is to avoid the problem completely, and plan your track-laying so that you don't have joints on sharp curves.  (probably not what you want to hear when you've already laid it!) 

Flexitrack will always try to straighten itself, and this will be apparent at a curved joint.  

 

Hope this helps,

Best of luck, Dave.T

[KingEdwardII]

Yes - avoiding joints on sharp curves is something worth planning for. Avoiding sharp curves at all is an even better idea, although the cramped spaces we have for our layouts can make this difficult. I imposed a minimum 500mm radius on my OO layout and only approach that in siding areas - running lines are 600mm or more.

 

Yours, Mike.

[Simon G]

Many thanks for all the discussion and ideas.  

 

Ideally I would have avoided curves as tight as 450mm radius, but with space at a premium, a 8 by 4 foot layout was the largest I can have.  Then after allowing for additional tracks along the straights, I couldnt go any larger than the 450mm on the inner circuit.  As the curves are part of a complete 180 degree bend, it was impossible to avoid joins on the bends, 

 

Having partially built a layout at the MRC using Setrack, I wasnt very impressed with it, hence my use of flexitrack instead.

 

The reason for the divergence between the inner and outer tracks noted by RobinofLoxley is that I have already realigned the outer track, so the inner will now basically follow the outer track.  In order to do this, I have a number of pieces of wood, with small notches cut out so that two motches will sit on the outer track and two notches on the inner track.  These should then keep the track spacing correct while the PVA dries.

 

I have now lifted the relevant track, and following Wheatley's advice, have cut approx 2mm off the left hand side of the lower bit.  Next I plan to refix the track above the join, and only refix the lower bit when the top is firmly secured.  I will look to putting a pre-bend in, although having been laid down once, there is already a bit of a bend in the track.

 

I will post again when I see how things have turned out!

[nelly]

 

I have soldered two pieces of flexitrack in straight section prior to curving using  Tracksetta templates- but avoiding the join at the ends of the curve.

An odd soldered joint here and there shouldn’t affect thermal track changes provided that you do allow for expansion and come traction elsewhere around the layout. 

On an  8x4 layout, the maximum practical radius is 18” or so which is well within a yard of flexitrack.

You can always add a short straight section between two curved sections and join  to that should you decide not to solder joints. 

 

[ELTEL]

Have a look at Charlie Bishops YouTube video Chadwick Model Railways that was posted on 18th December (last Friday) very detailed video that covers the subject in detail 

 

Hope it helps 

 

Terry 

[NeilWatson248]

On 16/12/2020 at 09:41, ColinK said:

Thanks for the link,. Having watched the video on their website I can see they will be useful when I start my next layout, hence I have ordered some.

I contacted Fohrmann regarding these little items and this was their reply

Dear Neil,

 

Thank you for your Email. Until the end of last year, we delivered to the UK. 

The effort for small orders is very big and the customs regulations make us have even more effort.

Maybe this will change again 

Mit freundlichen Grüßen/ Best regards,
Roland Kühn

fohrmann-WERKZEUGE GmbH