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Ratio CCW Kings Cross Precision wooden models


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attachicon.gifGWR wooden all third corridor.jpg

 

I am not sure whether this was originally a kit. Dad bought it ready made in about 1965, although it looks like it has had some of our hand written lettering added.

 

Phil, those look that they might have been made from ERG card sheets. E.Rankin-Grey produced card body sides and ends back in the 50s and 60s (maybe earlier and later). I remember that the window apertures were very hard to cut even and straight. I made the covering for the card from shellac crystals dissolved in meths. Those were the days before plasticard made everything so much easier!

 

A discussion here. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.rec.models.rail/51eI7PLUYa0

Edited by Re6/6
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A few more from the BMP catalogue.

 

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Note the bullhead rail used for the contact wire! The FS loco shown was always my dream model to acquire...never did back then, but got one recently as 'resurrection' project. Talk about 'old school' mechanisms!

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Phil, those look that they might have been made from ERG card sheets. E.Rankin-Grey produced card body sides and ends back in the 50s and 60s (maybe earlier and later). I remember that the window apertures were very hard to cut even and straight. I made the covering for the card from shellac crystals dissolved in meths. Those were the days before plasticard made everything so much easier!

 

A discussion here. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.rec.models.rail/51eI7PLUYa0

 

I bought one of the coach sheets but chickened out of cutting out all those windows....  Being card drilling out the corners was a no-no. Possibly shellac varnishing the card first was the answer, but that was beyond my expertise at the time.

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A few more from the BMP catalogue.

 

attachicon.gifimg363.jpg

 

attachicon.gifimg362.jpg

 

attachicon.gifimg364.jpg

 

Note the bullhead rail used for the contact wire! The FS loco shown was always my dream model to acquire...never did back then, but got one recently as 'resurrection' project. Talk about 'old school' mechanisms!

attachicon.gifimg365.jpg

 

'Old school' maybe but Rivarossi models run very well in my experience. I recall the prototypes of the one illustrated with affection.

 

The mechanism for the N2 suggests some inspiration from Meccano Ltd. There is a photo of one on here somewhere.

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  • 2 months later...

I've found some pictures of my wooden coaches, which I don't think I've posted before. They date from around 1970 (at least that's when I built them).

 

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Both sides of a CCW GWR clerestory 1st/3rd.

 

post-6780-0-86092600-1490219744_thumb.jpg

 

And a King's Cross 1922 70' steel toplight 1st/3rd.

 

The CCW coach came from Beatties in High Holborn and was already assembled. I can only claim the bogies (K's), underframe, end and roof details door furniture and the mouldings, paint and transfers (P.C. Methfix then, but now HMRS).

 

The other is a King's Cross kit (bought from them). It is still to be finished ( :O   :nono: ) and needs end details. wheels and some decent bogies. The original wooden roof warped and I was going to fit an aluminium roof (the one fitted is too short), but last time I saw the original roof it had straightened out and may yet end up in its rightful place.

 

Not really relevant, but there are also these wagons from the same period.

 

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left to right MR hopper GWR MICA and OPEN

 

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Three 19th century P.O. coal wagons. (I couldn't resist building the Henry Blandford one as it comes from my birthplace. 

 

The MR wagon and the 3 coal wagons are scratch built (all my own work apart from the castings, wheels etc.) from laminated postcard. (I must repair the brakegear....)

 

The MICA is a conversion of a Dublo MICA B (I never did finish the brake gear!) and the OPEN is from one of Ian Kirk's kits (again by myself). I think it's obvious which are hand lettered, which is dry print transfers and which two P.C. Methfix.

 

All were originally EM, but the three P.O. wagons are now 00 (They are out of period and I pinched the wheels for something else!).

Edited by Il Grifone
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Phil, those look that they might have been made from ERG card sheets. E.Rankin-Grey produced card body sides and ends back in the 50s and 60s (maybe earlier and later). I remember that the window apertures were very hard to cut even and straight. I made the covering for the card from shellac crystals dissolved in meths. Those were the days before plasticard made everything so much easier!

 

A discussion here. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.rec.models.rail/51eI7PLUYa0

I am sorry that I hadn't spotted your reply before this. The coach, and the photos are of the two sides of the same coach, doesn't have any sign of card. The surface you can see is wood, as far as I can recall, although it is once more tucked away in the garage, so I can't double check now. Had it been card, I would have expected the crest and lettering to have been printed on.

Thanks for your interest. I must remember to check back on posts I have made!

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I am sorry that I hadn't spotted your reply before this. The coach, and the photos are of the two sides of the same coach, doesn't have any sign of card. The surface you can see is wood, as far as I can recall, although it is once more tucked away in the garage, so I can't double check now. Had it been card, I would have expected the crest and lettering to have been printed on.

Thanks for your interest. I must remember to check back on posts I have made!

 

The ERG card parts were just that - a sheet of card with the outlines of the item printed on. All details had to be added and the result painted and lettered. They were really just an aid to scratch-building. A similar result could be made today by printing a drawing to scale and sticking it to card sheet. Drawings are very much easier to obtain today! The later P.C. models kits with preprinted sides were an improvement but the sides were too flat and not a lot better than tinplate. Etched sides ensured their demise. I must see if some are available for my brake/1st/3rd (E95 IIRC).

 

The coach looks like a CCW kit (cf. mine above). The bogies definitely are CCW - the give-away is the equalising pivot screw in the top of the frame. The kit could possibly be Ratio or King's Cross, but, in my experience, these usually had the windows cut out a bit more neatly (not that I've seen all that many and I might be maligning them). This coach is the full third that Hornby never produced with their Collett 57 foot coaches (Finally remedied!). My ERG sides were for the composite and it is obvious why I gave up with all those windows! I later acquired the Hornby coaches, but by the time one replaces bogies*, roof, and ends and repaints.... I seem to recall the side profile is also wrong and the windows are incorrect on the brake/3rd. Perhaps I'll save up for some replacements, when/if Hornby release their new versions in the original faux panelled 1920's livery. I'll have to not tell SWMBO however! (The trouble is one really needs six of them for the twenties, though I suspect the sets got broken up quite quickly.)

 

They are the right type (at least on the later GWR ones - the less said about the Southern and 'Gordon' versions the better), but raise the body too high.

Edited by Il Grifone
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My ERG sides were for the composite and it is obvious why I gave up with all those windows! I later acquired the Hornby coaches, but by the time one replaces bogies*, roof, and ends and repaints.... I seem to recall the side profile is also wrong and the windows are incorrect on the brake/3rd.

Both the Composite and Brake 3rd have errors in arrangement in what is now the Railroad models, but the Brake 3rd is closer - the Composite has 3 First and 4 Third compartments instead of 4 First and 3 Thirds, though the divided window which had the corridor doorway between the classes in the 'correct' place but in a Third Class width window with the transitional 1st/3rd width window left undivided. Many years ago (just after the correct 7' bogies were made) I spliced Compo and Brake bodies to make a Third which left enough bits over to correct a Composite.

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The ERG card parts were just that - a sheet of card with the outlines of the item printed on. All details had to be added and the result painted and lettered.

How did the Hanson card coach sides work then?  I've not (to my best knowledge anyway) seen one but I've read about them being used in early/mid 50's RM articles.  They looked reasonable in the photos but photos in those days weren't quite as 'revealing' as today's!

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Ah ERG!..... Memories....and none too good at that!

 

The first coach that l ever built was a 57' B/E and it turned out awfully. All that mixing of shellac crystals in meths and wonky cutting out with razor blades IIRC. I still have it somewhere as a reminder but certainly an image of which is never to be shared with anybody!

 

Happy days, but that was the way that we learned to 'make stuff' in those days of HD and Rovex!

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I never had very much success with the few ERG models I attempted. They have long gone into the great scrapyard of history. I usually did a better job with the MERCO range from Hamblings. I still have a few of these I built before my teen years. I made basic wagon and coach bodies from card and balsa wood and glued the printed sides onto them. The freight stock was put on to whatever spare chassis I could find from H/D and Tri-ang or Kenline bits & pieces and the coaches usually ended up with Kitmaster or Tri-ang bogies. When I sold my house recently (settlement was yesterday - I miss it already :cry:) I found about twenty sheets of the MERCO models I put aside for the future so I may have another crack at building a few again - hopefully with better running gear.

 

It will take me a fair while to sort out the great stockpile of locomotive, rolling stock and lineside/structure kits I found stashed away in various corners. There are at least 25 whitemetal loco kits plus a pile from Kitmaster and Airfix; dozens of brass, aluminium and plastic coach models and a couple of hundred goods wagons of various types. One box I opened has about 30 Cooper Craft kits I stashed away when they were first released.    

 

Dave R

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Both the Composite and Brake 3rd have errors in arrangement in what is now the Railroad models, but the Brake 3rd is closer - the Composite has 3 First and 4 Third compartments instead of 4 First and 3 Thirds, though the divided window which had the corridor doorway between the classes in the 'correct' place but in a Third Class width window with the transitional 1st/3rd width window left undivided. Many years ago (just after the correct 7' bogies were made) I spliced Compo and Brake bodies to make a Third which left enough bits over to correct a Composite.

 

You are right, I'd forgotten that. I have a 'Gordon' body on which I attempted  to correct the roof profile somewhere. It will probably supply some bits....

Edited by Il Grifone
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There was an 0 scale CCW kit for an LNER coach on sale on the Members' Sales stand at Ally Pally over the weekend.  Had it been 4mm scale and not priced as it was at £40 I could have been tempted for the curiosity value.

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They do make up into quite decent models with some work, but can't compare with plastic mouldings, assuming they don't cut corners and leave off the mouldings or use a 'one size fits all' body.

 

I made the mouldings on my clerestory from black PVC insulation tape. I thought it wouldn't last very long, but it's survived forty-odd years. I could the same on the coaches referred to above and in fact acquired an odd body moulding. I have some yellow self adhesive paper (the left-overs fro,m a sheet of labels). I was going to paint it black and then cut it into strips, which would do the edge lining. Another of those 'one day' projects!

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  • 2 years later...

Sorry for the huge date bump but I have come across this topic only today. At the 7th Chris Kedgley Skills Day today at Didcot Civic Hall was some stock previously owned by a now deceased member. Mostly it was all manner of GWR types but a model of a Southern Railway GBL (Gangwayed Bogie Luggage) van caught my eye and for a very reasonable price under £10 I was tempted.

 

I am trying to work out who the model was made by. It is obviously a wooden body and the planking appears quite well reproduced to my mind. The underframe equipment is on a metal plate screwed to the underbody. The gangway is either lost or not fitted. Overall it looks quite a good attempt- certainly better than the old Triang version although the bodyside windows appear a touch high.

 

I have consulted my Gould "Southern Railway Passenger Vans" (Oakwood X50, 1992) and there is a chapter at the rear on 4mm Scale models of SR Passenger Vans.

 

Reading the text suggests that the model is potentially either Ratio or CCW Productions (described by Gould as Cramer, Cartwright, Webster). Gould reckons that on the CCW version the planking is wrong and the windows a little high and generally not as good as Ratio.

 

Judging by the advert pictures in this thread I really cannot make my mind up whether the model is Ratio or CCW. My hunch is Ratio as the CCW planking appears coarser and deeper in the adverts whilst my van has quite subtle planking. I have included some photos snapped by my phone and hope that they show the vehicle to advantage.. Apologies for the orientation of the photos but I have no idea how to rotate them as they were imported direct from my phone camera.

 

As it is EM fitted we plan to replace the bogies with something a little more detailed but also with P4 wheels. The battery boxes could benefit from some surface detail but would it really be visible? Finally the ends need some replanking- they are wood grain on the model and an appropriate gangway fitted.

 

Any help with identification gratefully received!

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Edited by Natalie
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Generally more refined planking and finer grained wood was Ratio or Kings Cross Precision, while coarser grained wood and rather chunky detailing was CCW. Buffer beams on a right angled metal plate with two screw holes to fit them under the floor is a Ratio feature. Can't see what your van has. There was also an 00 Bakelite SR bogie van by Multimodels, which by the time it is painted could also look like a wooden one. I cannot recall whether the hole van was Bakelite or just the sides. The examples I have seen look quite good with no sign of warping. ERG did either a four wheel or bogie SR utility van or possibly both in card. It would have had to be scribed to produce the planked effect.

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I came across a wooden american style coach among an assorted bunch of railway bits dad bought back in the 1960s. I turned out to be made by the La Belle company who still produce wooden American rolling stock in a number of scales. This shows how I identified my one, which I then sold.

https://www.labellemodels.com/scale-passenger-cars-c-21_23.html

Mystery clerestory coach body compare with La Belle kit - Copy.jpg

Edited by phil_sutters
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Just reading this again and realised that I never did get an answer to my query about the Hanson card parts.  I believe they were embossed for panelling - but were the windows ready cut out?

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23 hours ago, mossdp said:

Buffer beams on a right angled metal plate with two screw holes to fit them under the floor is a Ratio feature. Can't see what your van has. 

 

Many thanks for your kind reply. I have photted the buffer beam arrangement under the floor. There is a metal plate with a screw at each corner. On close examination it does appear to be that the plate is angled to form the bufferbeam but it might not be very clear in the photos. I can't seem to get a decent photo behind the bufferbeam.

20200316_105700.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...

I believe that these are CCW. I bought them for a couple of quid at the Severn Valley a few years ago and think the clerestory was in a CCW box, correctly marked for it.

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The all-third was actually the more complete one, but I preferred the clerestory luggage-composite  so pooled the chassis bits from both. Later the clerestory was subjected to an experiment with printed paper coach sides that I drew up for it, hence the livery difference.

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  • 3 months later...
On 15/03/2020 at 17:09, 5050 said:

Just reading this again and realised that I never did get an answer to my query about the Hanson card parts.  I believe they were embossed for panelling - but were the windows ready cut out?

The answer, at least in so far as the GNSR card coach sides used by P D Hancock in his first Craig and Mertonford coach are concerned, is yes.

Malcolm

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Remember Kings Cross also provided ready-made coaches built from their kits to special order. there were built up by Simon Kelly who not only built and finished the coaches, but also operated the huge flypress in the basement which cut out all the window apertures. Simon's coaches have a cast SMK plate underneath.

 

Kings Cross also provided hand and kit built locos, those built by Mike Shepard were stamped with MJS and those by Jeff Packham JP.

 

Simon Kelly was in touch with me over the last year on here; the last I saw of Jeff Packham was in 1973, and I don't know if Mike Shepard is still with us.

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