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London Road - LNWR 1907


Jol Wilkinson
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Well that's curious. The original photo from which the heavily touched up postcard I posted was taken was recently under discussion on the L&NWR Society facebook group. In that discussion William Shelford wrote:

 

"There are articles about this train in the Locomotive Magazine for 4th July 1903, page 3-4 and 11th July 1903, page 31. These state that a special train was run for the 80 delegates and numerous friends of the International Telegraph Conference to and from Scotland on the 19th and 22nd ult. On both occasions the run from Euston to Carlisle was made non stop. The L&NWR engines were No. 1965 'C.H.Mason' and No. 1966 'Commonwealth' and north of Carlisle Caledonian Nos. 895 and 896. The train consisted of nine dining cars on six-wheeled bogies with a first class corridor coach at each end, total length 733-ft 6-in and about 450 tons in weight. Euston was left at 3.45pm, the journey to Carlisle was timed to take 6 hours exactly, the engine change 10 minutes, with arrival in Glasgow 2 hours ten minutes after leaving Carlisle."

 

(Note "ult" = ultimo, the previous month; an index of the magazine indicates that the runs were made on 19 and 22 June, the date given by the poster of the photo is 19 June 1903; clearly the LNWR Postcard department got their months muddled.19 and 22 June were a Friday and Monday, so it was a weekend conference outing.)

 

Other commentators confirmed the location as just north of Crewe North Junction. Since @Brassey's postcard is clearly the same photo, differently retouched, it can hardly portray an up train! It is evidently not the Royal Train. I'm not sure that a non-stop run would have been attempted with the Royal Train, at least not with the King on board. But maybe there was such a run, for which this photo has been recycled as a stand in. The lettering is like the style used on L&NWR official postcards, though Britannia in her roundel is absent.

Edited by Compound2632
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Nice Jol. I remember seeing London Road on a few occasions and can't wait to see your progress.

Regards Lez.

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7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The lettering is like the style used on L&NWR official postcards

 

This is the reverse.  Item is listed on ebay where I spotted it.  Obviously the LNWR were into recycling

 

image.png.471caab67934e8128cde3860e4820592.png

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It looks like an excellent set-up Jol, you should have a lot of enjoyment there :).

 

Well done on noting that the contents of the wine rack are off-limits: best to get these things straight from the start :yes:.

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Always remember London Rd from the first time I saw it and was totally captivated by the exquisiteness of the LNWR livery - still am, but not terribly practical in N.

 

The last time I saw the original layout was at Stoke Mandeville stadium and one of your operators invited me behind scenes so I could get a better view of the controls as I was in the process of building one myself. 
 

Looking forward to following your thread and thank you for sharing with us Jol.

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7 hours ago, Brassey said:

 

 Obviously the LNWR were into recycling

 

A bit off topic but as an example of recycling I believe very few LNWR calendars survive as at the end of the year company servants were instructed to turn them over for use as scrap pads. 

Edited by Hibelroad
Used the modern term staff in error!
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4 hours ago, Dragonboy said:

Always remember London Rd from the first time I saw it and was totally captivated by the exquisiteness of the LNWR livery - still am, but not terribly practical in N.

 

The last time I saw the original layout was at Stoke Mandeville stadium and one of your operators invited me behind scenes so I could get a better view of the controls as I was in the process of building one myself. 
 

Looking forward to following your thread and thank you for sharing with us Jol.

2008? That was the last time the terminus version appeared at Railex. I only took it out twice more (Watford and Wigan) before starting the conversion to a though station in 2010.

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Jol,

We displayed John Redrups London Road  terminus boards as a static exhibit at the 2019 AGM at Woodbridge. There were some good eye level photos/views looking through under the bridge. Can't post them here as my computer is at the doctor's! Perhaps you have some.

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Keith,

 

yes, indeed we did. I only took the end terminus board to the S4 AGM, as it hadn't been on display for a long time, whereas the rest of the original had been on display as part of the extended layout. John Livesey (Coal Tank here on RMweb) was rather disappointed as he had expected the whole layout to be on display.

 

It was still in my hands at the time although it is now again owned by John Redrup and is stored at the S4 North London Area Groups facilities. Hopefully it will appear on the exhibition circuit again.

 

 

 

1092583250_LRTS11.jpg.0c649abc6c78371197af69c6f51a2312.jpg

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26 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Keith,

 

yes, indeed we did. I only took the end terminus board to the S4 AGM, as it hadn't been on display for a long time, whereas the rest of the original had been on display as part of the extended layout. John Livesey (Coal Tank here on RMweb) was rather disappointed as he had expected the whole layout to be on display.

 

It was still in my hands at the time although it is now again owned by John Redrup and is stored at the S4 North London Area Groups facilities. Hopefully it will appear on the exhibition circuit again.

 

 

 

1092583250_LRTS11.jpg.0c649abc6c78371197af69c6f51a2312.jpg

Beautiful coach livery :)

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Posted (edited)

To put the layout in context and reflecting on what I already have, I see it as an outer suburban station towards the edge of a large conurbation. Hence land area is a rather limited, however a small goods yard would be appropriate to serve local residents and small business needs. An engine shed/facility would also serve locomotives on services terminating/returning from the “city centre”.

The existing track plan is shown below. My intention is to continue the two running lines on the RH end around to the fiddle yard/though storage on the opposite side of the Palais du Jardin. The two engine shed lines will run into a two road shed, coaling facility and possibly a 50’ turntable.

 

What do do at the LH end? Options are to continue with four running lines or go back into two roads. With four tracks there is the option of four lines or two pairs, so the latter could see the station operated as a junction. The LNWR ran four road mainlines as either two fast and two slow paired or outer goods/slow lines and two fast centre roads. My overall preference of these is for the “junction” option which gives more operational opportunities. That requires more, although straightforward, point work in the storage yard.

 

The alternative is to bring the four platform lines back to two roads. I prefer this option for several reasons. Slightly less track, simpler plan for the storage sidings, easier electrical plan (DC with Pentrollers) and it would provide simpler “one man” operation.

I can also add a small goods yard and parcel dock to the left off the road leading into platform one to meet local goods traffic needs.

The two corner baseboards will be irregularly split along their length to reduce each one’s size and weight, to enable them to be removed for working on. For that reason I am following the same design ideas as for the exhibition layout’s baseboards, detachable legs, etc. rather than screwing the baseboards to the walls.

 

The existing boards trackwork is shown here:

 

907882645_Existingbaseboardlayout.jpg.ca98bc45883c8a87dfeea29b18e315ca.jpg

 

 

This shows the track layout at the LH end.

 

1536033866_Fourtrackplatformend.jpg.00eb646dd26a8d385ac457e4dbfb3a0c.jpg


At the other end, the two nearer lines are the running lines, the two on the right lead into the engine shed area. Fortunately I built the skewed bridge fully detailed on both sides although the nearest side was largely invisible. I just have to fill in the missing wall sections where the end plate covered the open areas.

 

2119888775_Engineshedtracksend.jpg.12b7a537f801c2aa06608efc987791e6.jpg

 

 

Hence I have developed this idea for the new trackwork. The goods yard area is to the left above the running lines, the engine shed area opposite at the right hand end.

 

1354808967_Newlayout2T.jpg.7166e1f0e72c3e6a9de434253e69f002.jpg

 

 

Existing baseboard layout.pdf

Edited by Jol Wilkinson
Amended text
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That looks most promising Jol.

 

Have you considered the possibility of making platforms one and two through lines and making three and four bays for terminating suburban traffic? It would fit nicely with the carriage sidings and having the loco shed there.

Edited by t-b-g
typo
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Hi Tony, 

 

I had thought of that earlier but hadn't looked far into it. Platforms 3 and 4 are shorter at present (they were staggered to accommodate the trackwork at the RH end) so I will have to explore how long I can make the platforms to use the idea. I don't think the platform roads would be long enough to accommodate a crossover for running round so a station pilot would be required (the terminus version relied on one) to manage the stock. It would probably mean drawing the incoming stock back across the running lines to release the train loco and move the stock back into a departure platform. Would that be acceptable LNWR operating practise?.

 

I am also somewhat influenced in my thinking by Tring, which was a four track through station but trains from Euston also terminated there.

 

Jol

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5 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

To put the layout in context and reflecting on what I already have, I see it as an outer suburban station towards the edge of a large conurbation. Hence land area is a rather limited, however a small goods yard would be appropriate to serve local residents and small business needs. An engine shed/facility would also serve locomotives on services terminating/returning from the “city centre”.

The existing track plan is shown below. My intention is to continue the two running lines on the RH end around to the fiddle yard/though storage on the opposite side of the Palais du Jardin. The two engine shed lines will run into a two road shed, coaling facility and possibly a 50’ turntable.

 

What do do at the LH end? Options are to continue with four running lines or go back into two roads. With four tracks there is the option of four lines or two pairs, so the latter could see the station operated as a junction. The LNWR ran four road mainlines as either two fast and two slow paired or outer goods/slow lines and two fast centre roads. My overall preference of these is for the “junction” option which gives more operational opportunities. That requires more, although straightforward, point work in the storage yard.

 

The alternative is to bring the four platform lines back to two roads. I prefer this option for several reasons. Slightly less track, simpler plan for the storage sidings, easier electrical plan (DC with Pentrollers) and it would provide simpler “one man” operation.

I can also add a small goods yard and parcel dock to the left off the road leading into platform one to meet local goods traffic needs.

The two corner baseboards will be irregularly split along their length to reduce each one’s size and weight, to enable them to be removed for working on. For that reason I am following the same design ideas as for the exhibition layout’s baseboards, detachable legs, etc. rather than screwing the baseboards to the walls.

 

The existing boards trackwork is shown here:

 

907882645_Existingbaseboardlayout.jpg.ca98bc45883c8a87dfeea29b18e315ca.jpg

 

 

This shows the track layout at the LH end.

 

1536033866_Fourtrackplatformend.jpg.00eb646dd26a8d385ac457e4dbfb3a0c.jpg


At the other end, the two nearer lines are the running lines, the two on the right lead into the engine shed area. Fortunately I built the skewed bridge fully detailed on both sides although the nearest side was largely invisible. I just have to fill in the missing wall sections where the end plate covered the open areas.

 

2119888775_Engineshedtracksend.jpg.12b7a537f801c2aa06608efc987791e6.jpg

 

 

Hence I have developed this idea for the new trackwork. The goods yard area is to the left above the running lines, the engine shed area opposite at the right hand end.

 

1354808967_Newlayout2T.jpg.7166e1f0e72c3e6a9de434253e69f002.jpg

 

 

Existing baseboard layout.pdf 1.31 MB · 11 downloads

How does platform 3 work in the new plan? I can't see how you make a running move into the platform; is it only for departures? The station seems to have lines paired by direction on the left and lines paired by use on the right which is unexpected.

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2 hours ago, Guy Rixon said:

How does platform 3 work in the new plan? I can't see how you make a running move into the platform; is it only for departures? The station seems to have lines paired by direction on the left and lines paired by use on the right which is unexpected.

Guy,

 

perhaps not clear but what looks like a diamond crossing  is actually a single slip. This photo taken during a test set up while the "then" new baseboards were being built should clarify it.

 

1681032620_Underconstructioncropped.jpg.67203c1f548f21f16cebe3b65597c7b6.jpg

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Terminating in a through platform is easier than a bay as the release crossover will be out in the other throat, and you have the flexibility ro use them as through platforms when needed. I would not convert them to Bays, it limits the options for no gain.

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Thanks for everyone's input. I have decided to go with the track layout as in my post on Wednesday having reviewed the other options I had looked at.

 

Yesterday I spent designing the two baseboards that will carry the storage sidings/fiddle yard and working out how to fit the workbench under them, avoiding the light switch, sockets, etc. I've also been looking through the boxes that were packed for moving over a year ago to find the various baseboard fittings I had purchased, without success yet. I have started on the "cutting plan" for the birch ply I will use, getting it cut into the various sections I need at a local company. That way I get a "kit" of parts I can assemble accurately and fairly quickly. I've also started playing with Templot again and am slowly getting used to it. I worked out the "outline" plan with CorelDraw and know need to produce the track templates.

 

The wine rack has also been replenished today with a delivery from the Wine Society although I have yet to walk down the road to get some beer to go with tonight's fish and chips. Rather ironic that the excellent takeaway F&C comes from the pub kitchen next door but they aren't selling any bottled drinks to go with it.

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18 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

The wine rack has also been replenished today with a delivery from the Wine Society...

Pleased to hear this Jol :D...

18 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Rather ironic that the excellent takeaway F&C comes from the pub kitchen next door but they aren't selling any bottled drinks to go with it.

But sorry to hear this :negative:.

Edited by Chas Levin
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