London Road - LNWR 1907

[Jol Wilkinson]

11 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

I had to go back and look again 😄

 

The track work looks very good quality Jol. Your eyesight must be improving. 👍

 

Thanks Chas,

 

actually I find making trackwork quite easy. Templot "templates" for the points, a laser cut jig for the plain track which enables me to built 480mm lengths (two LNWR 60ft track panels) and a few years collecting track jigs and gauges.

 

When the track on the baseboard in the photo is finished ( in a couple of days) I can remove the board to fit the point motors and wire it up. I'll then move on to complete the two running lines at that end of the layout before moving to start on the engine shed area.

 

I have been a bit less confident about building and finishing models so far. I have three carriages that need the lining finishing, a NER open fish wagon that needs 1.0mm transfers applying but I am concentrating on the trackwork at present.

 

Jol

[Jol Wilkinson]

The trackwork on the station approach baseboard is now finished, apart from the ends of the sidings where the buffer stops go, which will be built from Lanarkshire Models kits.

 

 

The board has been separated from its neighbours and stands on two trestles so I can install the point motors and wiring. Two of the six Cobalt point motors have been fitted onto 6mm ply pads (so that the mounting screws don't project above the baseboard). I've used these as I had a few spares and also the wiring will match the other two boards. I plan to use servos, with MERG  drivers, on the storage sidings.

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Not much obvious progress on this baseboard but I have added small extensions a couple of the tracks and stained all the sleepers. The six Cobalt point motors are installed together with the point vee wiring connections and all the track droppers. The various colour wire for the track connections, etc. has arrived, so the next job is to turn this baseboard over and do the rest of the wiring.

 

 

The hand built track for the running lines around the south end of the layout, between this baseboard and the storage siding (which crosses the access bridge by the door) has also been completed.

[hayfield]

Jol

 

Great to see some very skilled track building, looking good

[Jol Wilkinson]

Hi John,

 

don't look too closely!

 

The points are a mix of rivet/ply and Exactoscale plastic chairs. I use rivets at "stress points" and where minor adjustment may be required. The plain track is also Exactoscale chairs on ply sleepers, built in sections on a laser cut jig which provides correct sleeper spacing for two LNWR 60ft panels at one time.

 

I find building points very satisfying and straightforward with the correct jigs. Plain track gets a bit boring though.

 

Jol 

[hayfield]

21 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Hi John,

 

don't look too closely!

 

The points are a mix of rivet/ply and Exactoscale plastic chairs. I use rivets at "stress points" and where minor adjustment may be required. The plain track is also Exactoscale chairs on ply sleepers, built in sections on a laser cut jig which provides correct sleeper spacing for two LNWR 60ft panels at one time.

 

I find building points very satisfying and straightforward with the correct jigs. Plain track gets a bit boring though.

 

Jol 

 

 

I had a stroke of luck a couple of weeks ago, in the late 70's I sold my Mk 1 Studiolith press with both hole punch and rivet press to John Redrup for one of the NW London boys, regretted it ever since. 2 weeks ago I found a pair of Mk 1 rivet presses each with both a rivet hole punch and press (the chap had one press for punching and one for pressing, whilst looking for info on it I found I have had a Mk3 punch/wheel press in the loft for a few years. The rivet press rod needs a new Spike (for want of a better word) turning on the end of the rod, but unknown to me it doubles as a wheel press !!

Edited March 7, 2023 by hayfield

[Jol Wilkinson]

John,

 

I think I may have your original press.

 

I bought it off JR when some time ago, several years after the  original London Road layout was completed. The cast alloy base was broken in two, but I fixed that by screwing and gluing it to a wood block. I used an epoxy that Bernard Weller of Exactoscale supplied for assembling their gearboxes. It was originally developed for ceramic repairs and was sourced from Australia, great stuff. 

 

Track rivet presses are like hen's teeth, so you did well picking up a couple on eBay.

 

Jol

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

John,

 

I think I may have your original press.

 

I bought it off JR when some time ago, several years after the  original London Road layout was completed. The cast alloy base was broken in two, but I fixed that by screwing and gluing it to a wood block. I used an epoxy that Bernard Weller of Exactoscale supplied for assembling their gearboxes. It was originally developed for ceramic repairs and was sourced from Australia, great stuff. 

 

Track rivet presses are like hen's teeth, so you did well picking up a couple on eBay.

 

Jol

 

 

When I sold it to John it was in perfect condition, hardly used !

 

If it was mine it must have had a hard life after I sold it to John

 

I wonder how much these would cost now if they were available, the presses sell for £55 + VAT . Its the cost of making the punch dies 

Edited March 7, 2023 by hayfield

[Jol Wilkinson]

John,

 

having known the builders of the original London Road, I can imagine one of them (not John) ussing the press quite heavily.

 

The rivet press shown in Tony Wilkin's S4Forum topic on building bullhead rail track shows a quite different press, but I don't know which version it is. This can close two rivets at the same time and doesn't need the punch and press anvils changing over, so saving time.

 

 

 

 

[OnTheBranchline]

On 12/02/2023 at 03:21, Jol Wilkinson said:

The trackwork on the station approach baseboard is now finished, apart from the ends of the sidings where the buffer stops go, which will be built from Lanarkshire Models kits.

 

 

The board has been separated from its neighbours and stands on two trestles so I can install the point motors and wiring. Two of the six Cobalt point motors have been fitted onto 6mm ply pads (so that the mounting screws don't project above the baseboard). I've used these as I had a few spares and also the wiring will match the other two boards. I plan to use servos, with MERG  drivers, on the storage sidings.

 

 

That's really pretty track/point work - very aesthetically pleasing. 

[hayfield]

16 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

John,

 

having known the builders of the original London Road, I can imagine one of them (not John) ussing the press quite heavily.

 

The rivet press shown in Tony Wilkin's S4Forum topic on building bullhead rail track shows a quite different press, but I don't know which version it is. This can close two rivets at the same time and doesn't need the punch and press anvils changing over, so saving time.

 

 

 

 

 

The colour of the press looks correct but I am not , as for the punch/press I am not too certain, I am talking about45 years ago

 

  These are the two presses after I cleaned them up

 

 

Prior to cleaning up on the left is the punching tool, right the closing tool

 

  As you can see the tools have cleaned up nicely

 

If you look at the punching tools, how much would these cost these days ? Would there even be a market

 

I have no idea if these are Mk 1 or Mk 2 presses, reading the history of these tools its something to do with the lever, these new tools have an extra spacer

 

https://www.scalefour.org/history/protofoursociety/manual/4.1.4-tools

[hayfield]

I am slightly confused reading Protofour  a chronology by Joe Brook Smith

 

It states  1985 Jun  First production of JBS-designed Combined Punch and Rivet Tool for use in the Brook Smith method of track construction.

 

Well I first bought my Protofour punch and die set when I worked for Dixons Photographic in Ealing Broadway sometime around 1968/9, long before 1985.

 

Perhaps the JBS designed tool is the Mk 3 ?

 

http://www.clag.org.uk/protofour-chronology.html

Edited March 8, 2023 by hayfield

[lezz01]

They are MK II the MK I's were made from Tee shaped aluminium and the MK III was a combined tool.

So these are MK I. 

Regards Lez.

Edited March 8, 2023 by lezz01

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, lezz01 said:

They are MK II the MK I's were made from Tee shaped aluminium and the MK III was a combined tool.

So these are MK I. 

Regards Lez.

 

 

According to the  "The Protofour Manual   Tools for Track Construction  4.1.4 "  differs to what you have written, and my purchase in the late 60's bares out this. After reading this I realise I have a Mk3 example (as illustrated in the manual) as well, which differs slightly from your tool. though the tool (not the press) is quite close, having said this your press follows a similar design to the Mk3.  I assume there will be variations/prototype machines of these tools as I guess alternatives to the letterhead presses were sought. As it happens the tools in the Mk3 differ to the tools I have, also Jol has a slightly different punch tool (posher) than mine.  Thanks for the info

 

https://www.scalefour.org/history/protofoursociety/manual/4.1.4-tools  This Protofour Manual is my source of reference and has clear photographs illustrating them

Edited March 8, 2023 by hayfield

[Grovenor]

Hi Hayfield,

The two you just got are definitely Mark 1, which were the best IMHO.

I had one at the very beginning and when I went overseas I left it behind and never saw it again. Although I did recover and still use some of the track made with it.

On my return I had to settle for a Mk3.

The JBS ones were, I think Mk2 or 2a, but I don't think I have ever seen one.

[lezz01]

Yes mine could well be prototypes given the source. They are very rough but they work very well. They may have been a prototype with a view to cut costs but they seem to be a step back given the quality of the combined one available now and the quality of the one's pictured above. In spite of that they do work very well. Although you have to keep an eye on the width of the crossing timbers as they can jam up. I tend to scrape along one side of the full length timber and make sure it will pass all the way through before I mark and cut them to length. 

Regards Lez.

Edited March 8, 2023 by lezz01

[Jol Wilkinson]

This is the one I have, which doesn't match the ones in the posts above, although the steel punch and press units look the same as some.

 

 

The lever should be pushed back in use and is then limited by the adjustable stop screw. However wear marks on the cam show it has been used pull forwards at times (before I got it) when is no limit on travel so I think that explains the breakage ( know which of the original London Road builders was the likely culprit).

 

The one I showed yesterday in the photo from Tony Wilkins S4 Forum topic on track building looks a better option, as it can be used for both operation without having to change over the punch and press tools. 

[hayfield]

Jol

 

The second one you have is not the one I sold to John Redrup, but seems to have a different make of letter press holding the Mk 1 & 2 rivet press. Sorry about the thread creep but  I do find the early history of track building and seemingly you are posh enough to own 2 press machines, though it does seem to save time in not having to switch tools

 

 

This is a Mk 3 andsimilar to the one Lezz01 has,  which may well be the prototype for it, it also has the same tool you (Jol) have in the second machine

 

According to Studiolith Manual. Both the Mk1 and Mk2 have the same type of Easipress letter press, the mk2 has an improved ram, presumably fitted by Studiolith as conversion parts were available to update Mk1 machines

 

 

The issue I have is that the punch spike was bent when I bought it and broke off when I tried to straighten it. I must find someone who will turn a replacement up on a lath for me

[lezz01]

The punch tool would be hardened steel with a high carbon content, it might even be tool steel. You needed to heat it up until it's cherry red before you can straighten it. Then you would have had to re-harden it again afterwards. To do this you heat it up again to cherry red and then quench it in machine oil, repeat as often as it takes until a file skates across the surface it will now be hard  again.

Regards Lez. 

[hayfield]

58 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

The punch tool would be hardened steel with a high carbon content, it might even be tool steel. You needed to heat it up until it's cherry red before you can straighten it. Then you would have had to re-harden it again afterwards. To do this you heat it up again to cherry red and then quench it in machine oil, repeat as often as it takes until a file skates across the surface it will now be hard  again.

Regards Lez. 

 

Thanks, I think this is something I will try and get expert assistance with, at worse I have a wheel and rivet press

[Jol Wilkinson]

Back to London Road, wiring of the baseboard in the photo has commenced (photo later today). I like to keep the cabling tidy and want to lace the various cable runs. However, I am having no success finding non industrial amounts (and consequently expensive)  of suitable cable  lacing thread.

 

Internet searches for waxed thread turn up plenty of options but most are for tying boots or making bead jewellery. An eBay purchase of the latter show it doesn't self grip at the knots. Part of the problem is partly that eBay and Amazon sellers often don't accurately describe what they are selling.

 

Does anyone know of a genuine supplier of the proper stuff in reasonable quantity (e.g. 25 - 50 metres)? 

[D-A-T]

Sailing Whipping Thread like this?

https://oceanrope.com/shop/whipping-twine/

[Jol Wilkinson]

16 minutes ago, D-A-T said:

Sailing Whipping Thread like this?

https://oceanrope.com/shop/whipping-twine/

Thanks, I hadn't thought of that (despite spending quite a few years sailing). It may be a little heavy but I should be able to get it at a local marina, if nothing else turns up.

[Schooner]

#2 twine is .5mm (nominally, from the usual manufacturers) and plenty strong enough for lacing, if you need something lighter and can't find anything better.

[Jol Wilkinson]

20 hours ago, Schooner said:

#2 twine is .5mm (nominally, from the usual manufacturers) and plenty strong enough for lacing, if you need something lighter and can't find anything better.

Thanks.

 

I can get Marlow No.2 or No.4 from a local chandler. No4 (0.8mm) is available in pretty colours and may be a bit easier to handle, so I'll try that.