Gateleg table for permanent mobile layout

[alphonsus]

Hi, complete newbie here (first post!). I want to get into some n-scale modelling but sadly have no garage, loft or spare bedroom to devote to the enterprise and therefore need a layout that can be stowed in some fashion. I've read various posts on using doors, etc. as baseboards but they still leave the problem of where to put a 6'6" door when not using it. I like the idea of modules and I'm happy with the idea of coming up with ways to disguise the joins. These can be put on a folding or gateleg table when in use.

Then I got thinking: why not build the layout on a gateleg table? There would need to be two (or maybe only one) join in the centre of the layout, and scenery would have to be able to take being stored sideways, those bits that weren't removable (e.g. larger buildings) but a 1.5m by 0.8m layout could fold down into something about 0.8m by 0.5m (including depth of scenery). Sensible choice of table would also give storage space that could even be adapted on-rail loco storage (see below). I have a router I can use for creating space for point motors and wiring in the table surface.

 

Has anybody tried this? Or can anybody see any fundamental flaws in the concept?

All thoughts appreciated!

Alph

[Nearholmer]

Its got a lot going for it, but one flaw, IMO: the fragile scenic-development would be on the "outer skin" of the folded table, making it very vulnerable to damage. I guess a lot depends on your domestic circumstances - I've got children, who would likely blunder into it, and a small dog, who would likely "investigate" it to shreds, and I'd probably managed to damage it myself too!

[traction]

I agree, any scenery will get damaged, but as that has a fixed middle is there anyway to reverse the hinges so each side lifts up?

If that's possible then the scenery would be protected as the two halves would lift and the scenery would face each other.

 

Just a quick comment, Not really looked into hinges or anything.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[Michael Hodgson]

17 minutes ago, traction said:

I agree, any scenery will get damaged, but as that has a fixed middle is there anyway to reverse the hinges so each side lifts up?

If that's possible then the scenery would be protected as the two halves would lift and the scenery would face each other.

 

Just a quick comment, Not really looked into hinges or anything.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

That might work but it would be very unstable in the raised position. 

 

In my experience gate leg tables aren't very strong and the gate can easily get knocked and can collapse if the leg is accidentally kicked.

I would want at least to lock the leg into a pocket.

[ikcdab]

I would be afraid that unless everything is fixed down securely, then it's all going to drop off when you fold it down.

Do you need a continuous run? If you're happy with an end to end, then a layout along a bookshelf or similar can be very effective.

Or can you slide a baseboard under a bed or settee? 

Something that folds in to protect the scenery would be better.

Lack of space is a perennial problem, there are loads of really imaginative ideas if you look around. Having said that, your table idea is imaginative!

[Kris]

The biggest downside that I can see (apart from scenery being knocked off) is that there is no area for wiring under the board. I would suggest that you would want to extend the middle section. I would then add a frame under the leaves. This would still allow it to be folded up and would only extend the overall size a little. The other issue with gate leg tables is that they have a tendency to twist when weight is on them. You could get over this by replacing the leg with a trestle. 

[alphonsus]

Hi all, thanks for your input:

 

Nearholmer - no children but yes, a small dog, so that's a good point and I'll have to come up with a barrier of some form. Fortunately he's not overly inquisitive and hasn't got any teeth left, so scenery savaging would be limited to licking it to death. Which does lead to an additional issue about toxicity... One end of my proposed design is much flatter than the other so a fold-around case in thin ply (it doesn't have to support anything) should be achievable for the bit less than 2 feet of the floor that's within nose range

 

traction - an interesting idea. A broomhandle in brackets on the base and flap might provide the support. Hinge-wise, that would be an opportunity to deploy piano hinges which would help with stability as well

 

Michael Hodgson - I agree, a bracket / pocket would be essential

 

ikcdab - I would really like a continuous run if I can manage it and yes, fixing things down is going to be a challenge. I'm hoping the lower mass of n-gauge structures will help. Sadly there's no clearance under the couch or bed for stowing a layout. I briefly considered pulleys and rope but wasn't happy with the idea of the mass of a baseboard, frame and scenery hanging above my (or more importantly, the dog's) head

 

Kris - thanks for the suggestions. If I extend the middle section that would also give me clearance to have a pair of fold-up frames under the flaps that would offer similar support to trestles. The gatelegs on the ikea table above are a bit too long to suit, but I guess I could cut them down

[DCB]

,Its got a heck of a lot going for it.  The usual problems with lift up flaps is thehinges need to be above track level, with this the tracks move away as the flaps are dropped,

Scenery can be an issue if you  let it If you have space there could be a 6" "Box" each side for the flaps with their scenery to drop into. Probably make the thing 24" wide folded and 3+3+1  = 7ft opened by 4ft?  3ft? wide  Still quite a lump, and you need to make sure the gate legs can't easily fold in.   Certainly worth a punt.  Anything has to be better than hardboard on 2X1 framing, maye except plywood.  Wiring should be easy enough as long as you have a power drill, just drill through, makes no difference if its 8 mm or 2" and the folds are inside folds which makes wiring routes easy.

[Dickon]

You might like to try a metamorphic table. The lower surface swings forwards and upwards to lock onto the upper surface which slides back half its width.  The two halves lock together very positively while track and scenery stay level.  

 

           

 

This photo shows the top leaf only on my own layout at an early stage of construction.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Dickon

[Harlequin]

[Flying Pig]

5 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

I was imagining something of this sort, but I think the boards need to be better balanced through the unfolding and folding process.  If you imagine closing the layout from the position in image 2, the point at which the boards are supported goes very rapidly from near the hinge to the outside edge, which will lead to an increasing tendency to slam shut as they descend. In the other direction things will get easier as they come up but the initial lift will require the user to take the whole weight of the layout possibly in an awkward posture.

 

Would something like this work where the boards are suspended from near their midpoint for most of the way?  The pivots on the boards are slotted to allow them to clear a central rail then be pushed together over it. An outer leg will obviously be needed for each board.

 

 

 

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

I like this idea - child / small dog safe, compact and neat:

 

On 13/04/2021 at 08:42, Harlequin said:

 

But I think it would need at least two people (one each side) to open / close safely to avoid bad backs when opening, or would want a supporting pivot as suggested by @Flying Pig.

As an alternative, would it work if the two boards weren’t hinged, and lifted out / slid in one at a time (when lifting out, open the leg first)?  You could avoid modifying the original drop-leaf table if wings are used to support the layout?

 

The gate-leg table I use as my desk is a ‘front loader’ with a door to the central storage piece as an alternative to the ‘top loader’ above.

This particular design only has a very restricted central space, but it’s the concept I’m referring to. Keith.

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke
Edited for text only as photos no longer available.

[Flying Pig]

1 hour ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

As an alternative, would it work if the two boards weren’t hinged, and lifted out / slid in one at a time (when lifting out, open the leg first)?  You could avoid modifying the original drop-leaf table if wings are used to support the layout?

 

 

That sounds like it would work very well.  There are some used examples online with quite generous storage so finding one like that, without wandering into collectible territory, would be ideal.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Flying Pig

[simmo009]

Nice idea. Don't rule anything out, saw a shunting layout built on an ironing board recently.

[Coder Tim]

Would a scaled-down table tennis table mechanism solve the balance issue?  The two leaves are supported near the middle by legs that are on casters and move towards the centre as the table folds down.

 

Edit: I completely mis-remembered how that mechanism works, the legs under the pivots don't move, the outer legs do.  The pivot legs are on a fixed frame and create a gap between the two leaves when folded up.  Still might be worth considering.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Coder Tim
Correcting a mistake

[Nearholmer]

A late entry .......... tilting-top meeting tables, such as these

 https://www.btoffice.co.uk/product/telford-tilt-top-table/

 

I've just seen one for sale, fitted with an over-sized top, with an 0 gauge test-track fitted. Very practical. Wish I'd thought of it!

 

And, used office furniture places seem to have them at sensible prices, £100 - £200 for very sturdy-looking ones of good sizes.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Nearholmer

[alphonsus]

On 13/04/2021 at 07:18, Dickon said:

You might like to try a metamorphic table. The lower surface swings forwards and upwards to lock onto the upper surface which slides back half its width.  The two halves lock together very positively while track and scenery stay level.  

 

           

 

This photo shows the top leaf only on my own layout at an early stage of construction.

I'd never heard of these before. And rather coincidentally there's one on eBay right now that's 3' by 1'3" closed, expanding to 3' by 2'6" for a very good price (apart from the 200 mile round trip to collect...). This could be a serious possibility. I like Harlequin's idea as well, but suspect it's a little beyond my engineering skills. This has the bonus over the gate leg table and ping-pong table that the scenery stays horizontal. Also, the split is roughly where my planned scenic divide would be, meaning the track joins will all be under scenery (but accessible from the sides) avoiding the more complex track layout of the station area.

[Dickon]

I bought mine on eBay.  It's a bit bigger than the one you've found at 5' x 1' 3" expanding to 5' x 2' 6".  It's ideal in a small cottage as it stows tidily against a wall and can be pulled out when I want to play.

[MyRule1]

Depending on your ambitions you could take the Japanese approach. I read somewhere that due to small apartments some modellers in Japan dismantle their railways after use and that is why the Kato track system is popular there. Until my layout room is ready I face this issue so I have built three small scenic modules which fit on a book case. When I want a running session I connect them to a circle of Kato track with three sidings. With this approach you can use any flat surface.

[john new]

On 13/04/2021 at 23:10, simmo009 said:

Nice idea. Don't rule anything out, saw a shunting layout built on an ironing board recently.

With ironing boards you need a double tubed one in the leg supports. Our big one (for actual ironing) is fairly stable; I bought a smaller one that would fit into our then car (a Corsa) but it is single tube and has proved a bit too wobbly. Used with a second one under the 4ft square board I use with my test/running in oval it is ok, not as good when used as below.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by john new
Lost image(s) restored August 2022

[alphonsus]

10 hours ago, Dickon said:

I bought mine on eBay.  It's a bit bigger than the one you've found at 5' x 1' 3" expanding to 5' x 2' 6".  It's ideal in a small cottage as it stows tidily against a wall and can be pulled out when I want to play.

I've just found one the same size as yours. Handily, that's almost identical in dimensions to the Ikea table in the OP I was using for feasibility planning so I know the layout should fit.

It's just occurred to me that because one half of the layout stays at 'normal' height, a considered design would allow some form of operation even while folded - a bit of station shunting, etc., leaving 'through trains' for when unfolded.

Edited April 20, 2021 by alphonsus

[sjp23480]

I designed a small quayside layout for OO to fit onto an IKEA BROR (below).  Measuring 850mm x 550mm and 110mm tall it provides a good operating height.  My idea is to have two boards of 750mm x 500mm which can then be stored on the two shelves, which then lift out and clip together on the top.  So a total operating surface of 1500mm by 500mm.  The plan is also below for reference.  The boards would be stored with the scenic side facing the wall and the back scene boards could be finished to made the unit look quite furniture like. 

 

Never did get to build it, but could this be a viable option for you?

 

Steve

 

 

[Nearholmer]

The idea of having the rear of the back-scenes face the room has a lot going for it - ingenious!

 

I instantly imagine a set of pine shelves being transformed into a faux chest of drawers, simply by adding handles to the rear of the back-scenes. I think I'd go for an arrangement that left the top completely clear when in "furniture" mode, so three "drawers", one to sit on the top, and two, each with a fold-down set of legs at one end, to go either side.

 

Nobody would suspect that this is, in fact, a layout 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Dickon]

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I instantly imagine a set of pine shelves being transformed into a faux chest of drawers, simply by adding handles to the rear of the back-scenes. I think I'd go for an arrangement that left the top completely clear when in "furniture" mode, so three "drawers", one to sit on the top, and two, each with a fold-down set of legs at one end, to go either side.

I had planned to modify a chest of drawers in exactly this way before I discovered the 'metamorphic' table.

My idea was to remove the backs and sides of the drawers so they could still slide into the carcass for stowage.  As Nearholmer suggests the drawer fronts would have become back-scenes in 'layout mode'.  The legs for the outer two drawers would attach to the back of the carcass when they were not in use.

I was however attracted by the ingenuity of the metamorphic unit, the comparatively less work in the conversion and the idea of having just one rather than two joins between my 'baseboards'.

[Nearholmer]

Those metamorphic animals are attractively ingenious - the sort of thing it would be nice to have, just because it is clever. I found a really huge, antique one for sale on a French website, an entire set of bookshelves, seven I think, each about a foot wide, which tilted to form either a set of library steps (faintly dangerous-looking ones), or a big table. Whether it would actually be practically useful, I'm not certain, but as a work of engineering-art in iron and walnut it would take some beating.