Hornby B17 Leicester City

[Henners84]

Hi, 

Wondering if anyone can help please.

I took delivery of a new Hornby B17 (Leicester City) yesterday, and there appears to be an issue with forward running. At just below half speed the coupling rod catches in the same place each time in forward running which stops the loco dead. This is not an issue at faster speeds (presumably enough momentum to push past what is catching). It is also much less obvious in reverse. 

The frustrating part is that I asked the retailer to test the loco's slow speed running prior to sending and he reported it to be good. Obviously I could return the loco to the retailer and ask to change to an alternative version, but want to ask here in case there is a very obvious fix that will mean I don't need to do this. 

I have saved a video here... 

Thanks, 

Henry 

[brushman47544]

I don't have a B17 so am unfamiliar with the packaging, but if tested by the retailer has one on the con rods been bent slightly putting it back in the packaging? This happened to me with a rebuilt WC - the paperwork was put on top of the loco and pressed down where it shouldn't have.

[Henners84]

35 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

I don't have a B17 so am unfamiliar with the packaging, but if tested by the retailer has one on the con rods been bent slightly putting it back in the packaging? This happened to me with a rebuilt WC - the paperwork was put on top of the loco and pressed down where it shouldn't have.

From what I can tell nothing is catching on the mechanism I can see without opening it up. The right conrod is close to touching on each rotation but, on inspection, it is not touching and does not seem to be the cause of the issue. What I have just noticed though though is that the rear and centre driving wheels are locked solid when the loco 'sticks' on each location. There is a little play in the front pair of driving wheels which allows the wheel set to do another rotation when 'wiggled'. 

[robmcg]

Doesn't look like a rod fouling to me, more a gear meshing issue. I'd be inclined to return it, unless you are willing to disassemble and inspect.   Sorry.  And it's only a guess on my part looking at the video.

 

Good luck.

[atom3624]

Simplest would be to return it, unfortunately.

 

I have a former R3003 Barnsley, renumbered / renamed Everton - my unfortunate chosen team ... runs absolutely perfectly - smooth from crawl to blur!

 

Can you confirm all rod locating bolts are nipped up - DO NOT overtighten, they'll snap off?

The cylinder slider seems to angle up - mine's horizontal. May permit rod interference which could be avoided.

 

Al.

[sidmouth]

i know its a picture but the wheel back to backs look different too

 

[Henners84]

On 05/05/2021 at 23:49, atom3624 said:

Simplest would be to return it, unfortunately.

 

I have a former R3003 Barnsley, renumbered / renamed Everton - my unfortunate chosen team ... runs absolutely perfectly - smooth from crawl to blur!

 

Can you confirm all rod locating bolts are nipped up - DO NOT overtighten, they'll snap off?

The cylinder slider seems to angle up - mine's horizontal. May permit rod interference which could be avoided.

 

Al.

Hi Al, 

Thanks for the comment. In fact I managed to seemingly fix the issue by loosening the bolts on the connecting rods (appears they were originally too tight causing the sticky running). Running a lot smoother now. Thanks for highlighting this as a potential error to search to fix the problem. 

Henry 

[atom3624]

Hi Henry,

If it's running well, then you're welcome.

TBH the wheel bolts should be 'nipped just tight' without any opening up. The point I was making is that they're tiny, and it's easy to snap the heads off.

I would check the coupling / connecting rods are aligned properly within the bolts - even 'nipped up' there should still be a little very slight free / lateral play.

 

Al.

[Henners84]

2 hours ago, atom3624 said:

Hi Henry,

If it's running well, then you're welcome.

TBH the wheel bolts should be 'nipped just tight' without any opening up. The point I was making is that they're tiny, and it's easy to snap the heads off.

I would check the coupling / connecting rods are aligned properly within the bolts - even 'nipped up' there should still be a little very slight free / lateral play.

 

Al.

Ah, OK. I can only get the smooth running with opening up the bolts to allow a lot of slack (they're certainly not tight). Will this present issues down the line? 

[atom3624]

If that is how it works, it sounds like the infamous 'quartering' may be out very slightly.

Thing is, these rods are 'gently scraping' against the bolts every revolution, so they can easily unscrew, then fall out / get lost, unless you're regularly checking.

 

If it falls out, the rod will drop, catch, cause the locomotive to fall off track, or fold in 2 ... or any of the above.

 

If you're happy you need the bolt slightly opened, you could consider a tiny touch of blue, medium / temporary threadlock - NOT the permanent.

Various makers have different colours for the same effect.  I have blue mild, red more-permanent, green-yellow don't even ask.

The latter was great in largescale R/C trucks I've had in the past!

 

Al.

[Widnes Model Centre]

On 05/05/2021 at 23:49, atom3624 said:

 

 

I have a former R3003 Barnsley, renumbered / renamed Everton - my unfortunate chosen team....

 

 

 

Is it anything like my B17 Everton? Look carefully.

[atom3624]

The OP's, like mine is a later tooling S.D. one, loco drive.

 

Your Everton - good win today!! - is an earlier, tender driven one.

 

Al.

[Widnes Model Centre]

9 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

The OP's, like mine is a later tooling S.D. one, loco drive.

 

Your Everton - good win today!! - is an earlier, tender driven one.

 

Al.

 

Great win. However you haven’t spotted why it’s probably different to every B17. Look again..... Don’t forget it’s Everton and doesn’t always pan out the way we think it should.

 

It took me about five years to even notice. 

Barry

Edited May 9, 2021 by Widnes Model Centre

[Henners84]

58 minutes ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

Great win. However you haven’t spotted why it’s probably different to every B17. Look again..... Don’t forget it’s Everton and doesn’t always pan out the way we think it should.

 

It took me about five years to even notice. 

Barry

No names, number badging on one side? 

[Widnes Model Centre]

5 minutes ago, Henners84 said:

No names, number badging on one side? 

 

Correct, Henners84. 

I bought it as an unboxed loco but in plastic inner,eBay auction . The inner says R133 Sample.  1994. 

I can only presume l actually bought a Hornby pre production  sample.

As l said, never noticed for years,

 

[atom3624]

Was it purchased new, or by a Man City supporter in the process of renaming?  !!

 

Back to OP, I hope you understand my last reply for you.  It is unusual you cannot 'nip tight' a bolt and it not permit free movement of the rods.

Opened out, it needs to stay where you leave them, hence mention of a 'little touch' of temporary threadlock - that should be adequate, it's guey enough to gum up the threads but not strong enough you cannot open again.

 

Al.

[31A]

2 hours ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

Is it anything like my B17 Everton? Look carefully.

 

 

 

Were they not at one time sold with labels for alternative names and numbers in the box?  I've got an LNER liveried one that was, although I think it was supplied with a name and number already printed, and the alternative ones were intended to be stuck over them.  Mine was Manchester United, I think.

 

[robmcg]

14 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Was it purchased new, or by a Man City supporter in the process of renaming?  !!

 

Back to OP, I hope you understand my last reply for you.  It is unusual you cannot 'nip tight' a bolt and it not permit free movement of the rods.

Opened out, it needs to stay where you leave them, hence mention of a 'little touch' of temporary threadlock - that should be adequate, it's guey enough to gum up the threads but not strong enough you cannot open again.

 

Al.

 

The bolt, or set-screw? should be made with a non-threaded section long enough to allow freedom of rotation and some side-play and still be nipped-up securely. Either this 'binding' B17 as a faulty bolt or an incorrect one.   Semi-permanent threadlock might work but I wouldn't call it ideal. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by robmcg
typo

[atom3624]

Exactly, thanks Rob.

Some have so little 'no thread' they're just effectively bolts, but stand off enough when nipped up to permit the free movement of the rods.

 

Al.

[Widnes Model Centre]

24 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Were they not at one time sold with labels for alternative names and numbers in the box?  I've got an LNER liveried one that was, although I think it was supplied with a name and number already printed, and the alternative ones were intended to be stuck over them.  Mine was Manchester United, I think.

 

 

Yes, you could from memory get an Arsenal and came with Leeds United as alternative  plates, it was only the metal plates that were different. They all came with two teams.

However if you look at mine, the tender isn’t lined. No lining or numbering on loco body. Even the paint looks like it’s given a thinner coat on the undecorated side.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Widnes Model Centre

[Steamport Southport]

10 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Were they not at one time sold with labels for alternative names and numbers in the box?  I've got an LNER liveried one that was, although I think it was supplied with a name and number already printed, and the alternative ones were intended to be stuck over them.  Mine was Manchester United, I think.

 

 

LNER with Red splashers. Man United, Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Arsenal

 

BR with splasher colour as a sticker. Leeds United, Everton, Leicester City and West Ham United.

 

But they did have some ready finished versions which were sold via mail order catalogues such as Littlewood and Kays. 

 

 

Mine was Liverpool obviously. 

[Steamport Southport]

Could be a display model.

 

It did exist.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=1324

 

About ten years after the other versions.

 

 

Jason

Edited May 9, 2021 by Steamport Southport

[Widnes Model Centre]

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Could be a display model.

 

It did exist.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=1324

 

About ten years after the other versions.

 

 

Jason

 

Doubt they came in a plastic insert like this though Jason.

 

Barry

Edited May 10, 2021 by Widnes Model Centre

[31A]

9 hours ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

 

However if you look at mine, the tender isn’t lined. No lining or numbering on loco body. Even the paint looks like it’s given a thinner coat on the undecorated side.

 

Must admit I didn't notice that!

 

[Henners84]

13 hours ago, atom3624 said:

Was it purchased new, or by a Man City supporter in the process of renaming?  !!

 

Back to OP, I hope you understand my last reply for you.  It is unusual you cannot 'nip tight' a bolt and it not permit free movement of the rods.

Opened out, it needs to stay where you leave them, hence mention of a 'little touch' of temporary threadlock - that should be adequate, it's guey enough to gum up the threads but not strong enough you cannot open again.

 

Al.

Thanks, I think I understand. They should be tight (as I just enough to make it 'bite', but no more). Mine were like that but that compromised the running. Now I have loosened them the model runs well but they should be loose at all, they should be 'nip' tight. Having them loose might risk them falling off unless I apply the threadlock. If I'm honest, I'm not keen on doing that to a brand new loco which should have been fine in the first place. Best idea to send it back and ask for an exchange? The person I purchased it from had more than one in stock so hopefully a reasonable one to exchange it for. I just wonder how it got to the state where it was binding as the seller tested before sending and reported it was fine. Took a knock in transit?