Talbotjohn Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 I keep looking at pictures of the Landwasser Viaduct thinking that would make a dramatic way of turning my fairly ordinary HOm RhB layout through 90'. For now, before anyone gets too excited, this is just an idea slowly becoming an information gathering exercise that could yield a serious feasibility study. Has anyone already made a 1:87 model of this viaduct or something close? So far I have a selection of published photos and a few basic dimensions from Martin Fisher's SRS Graubunden area guide - 6 arches, max height 65m, length 136m, on a curve with a gradient. For 1:87 scale these basic data translate into 29.6" high and 5' 1 +1/2" long, approximate radius of curve around 39". Photos suggest the viaduct does not curve through a full 90'. So does anyone have further data they will share or can tell me where to find additional information? Width of the trackbed between sides, shape of the curve of the arches and how they are set on the pillar sections would give me a sporting chance of capturing the character of this iconic structure. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Depends how 'to scale' you'd want it to be. If you're just going for an 'inspired by' type model, HO model curved viaduct parts are available that could give you the look you're after. https://www.topslotsntrains.com/topslotsntrains/final.asp?ref=Faller-120466-OO/HO-Scale-Model-Kit-TWO-TRACK-CURVED-VIADUCT-SET-&id=16732&manufacturer='Faller Kits' if a scale model that's 2 and a half feet high and over 5 feet long is what you're after then you're into scratch building as not many have space for a model that size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 There is a drawing here but the dimension are almost impossible to read: https://www.rhb.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/redaktion/Ueber_die_RhB/UNESCO Welterbe/Dokumente/Kandidaturdossier/Englisch/2a4_en.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 And these: https://www.mobablog.info/blog.php?id=2643 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbotjohn Posted June 28, 2021 Author Share Posted June 28, 2021 Thanks for your replies. I agree a scale model would be big but so could be the impact of such a model (or so I would hope!) My layout is built in 4 x 4' long sections so it could be exhibited or just set up for a few days in the lounge at home. I could use this viaduct to create an L shaped set up. I have updated my dimensions from details I found in the link provided by Mike. I agree the dimensions in the drawings are hard to read but the profiles are there and this article is a big step forward in my knowledge. Much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 (edited) Hi there, Might not quite be the answer you were expecting but ... just in case you missed it: I built a scaled down version of the viaduct for our 2019 GMRC Heat layout. It was one of the six 'pre-builds' allowed, so I was able to take my time making a reasonable-ish job of it. I used the tried and trusted Wills random stone sheets for the arches, which are of course semi-circular. I made use of the Wills viaduct kit for the piers. Pre-competition And,, as completed in somewhat less than three days at the competition filming. I have travelled across the prototype numerous times and done the walk along the valley floor to gaze up at this incredible structure so it was a great thrill to have the chance to build a version of it. HOWEVER! The drop in my model is about 10 inches and I reckoned it to be about 40% of scale size. We were also constrained, within the rules of the competition, to use OO track. I do have the idea of relaying it though with HOm but in truth N gauge would be somewhat closer! Edited June 28, 2021 by LNER4479 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbotjohn Posted June 28, 2021 Author Share Posted June 28, 2021 Very impressive. Certainly captures the character of the viaduct - think what might have been possible without the competition constraints and the viaduct was the main focus! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 28, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 28, 2021 There have been a couple of scale models of it in Germany and the drawings by the chap Mike linked to are one of the best resources. If you pm me your email I have a pdf with more detail drawings but it’s 13mb so can’t attach here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 8 hours ago, LNER4479 said: Hi there, Might not quite be the answer you were expecting but ... just in case you missed it: I built a scaled down version of the viaduct for our 2019 GMRC Heat layout. It was one of the six 'pre-builds' allowed, so I was able to take my time making a reasonable-ish job of it. I used the tried and trusted Wills random stone sheets for the arches, which are of course semi-circular. I made use of the Wills viaduct kit for the piers. Pre-competition And,, as completed in somewhat less than three days at the competition filming. I have travelled across the prototype numerous times and done the walk along the valley floor to gaze up at this incredible structure so it was a great thrill to have the chance to build a version of it. 8 hours ago, LNER4479 said: Hi there, Might not quite be the answer you were expecting but ... just in case you missed it: I built a scaled down version of the viaduct for our 2019 GMRC Heat layout. It was one of the six 'pre-builds' allowed, so I was able to take my time making a reasonable-ish job of it. I used the tried and trusted Wills random stone sheets for the arches, which are of course semi-circular. I made use of the Wills viaduct kit for the piers. Pre-competition And,, as completed in somewhat less than three days at the competition filming. I have travelled across the prototype numerous times and done the walk along the valley floor to gaze up at this incredible structure so it was a great thrill to have the chance to build a version of it. HOWEVER! The drop in my model is about 10 inches and I reckoned it to be about 40% of scale size. We were also constrained, within the rules of the competition, to use OO track. I do have the idea of relaying it though with HOm but in truth N gauge would be somewhat closer! HOWEVER! The drop in my model is about 10 inches and I reckoned it to be about 40% of scale size. We were also constrained, within the rules of the competition, to use OO track. I do have the idea of relaying it though with HOm but in truth N gauge would be somewhat closer! Would look very good with Nm9 Kato Rhaetische Bahn Series stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrTea Posted June 30, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2021 There’s a scale drawing of the profile of the Landwasser viaduct in John Marshall’s book that may be of use: The description also gives the radius of the curve: The book is well worth trying to get hold of if you’re interested in the history of the RhB and the technical details about the construction of the network. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Beard Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Thank you for that MrTea. I just bought a copy on eBay! That gives me all of 3 books on the RhB and its surroundings. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 30, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2021 On 29/06/2021 at 00:04, Gordonwis said: Would look very good with Nm9 Kato Rhaetische Bahn Series stock Something like this 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Interesting to see that drawing. On the thing as built, the arches do go round the full semi-circle. I used these pictures (from a 2016 trip, where we were blessed with lovely weather for the walk from Filisur to the viaduct itself) in the making of my model. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 30, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, LNER4479 said: Interesting to see that drawing. On the thing as built, the arches do go round the full semi-circle. The drawing shows the construction sequence details and it is a semi circle, note the radius centre. The partial arch is showing the ‘thrust blocks’ at the top of each pier that the rest of the arch was built between. This photo from Albulabahn, G Caprez & P Pfeiffer, shows the form for the first arch being built from those thrust blocks. Edited June 30, 2021 by PaulRhB 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 In which case, that's my mis-interpretation of the drawing then! I did think it odd that it appeared to show the arches stopping before they got to the top of the piers - I was panicking slightly in case I got that detail wrong on my version. I also note the ironwork extrusions that are still there to this day. I always thought they were remnants from construction and the phot you've posted seems to confirm that (supports for staging at two points on the lower sections of each arch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 30, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, LNER4479 said: I was panicking slightly in case I got that detail wrong on my version. No yours is all good , the drawing also shows the drainage the solid white is stonework, the horizontal line shading shows the infill. 11 minutes ago, LNER4479 said: always thought they were remnants from construction Yes correct they supported the timber frames rather than scaffolding all the way to the valley floor. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 There was a program on a few months back about this part of the line which was very interesting especially as I have been on the Bernina express and considering another trip which takes this line in as part of the tour Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Easterbrook Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Note that each individual arch is straight, unlike many commercially available model curved bridges. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 3 hours ago, Jim Easterbrook said: Note that each individual arch is straight, unlike many commercially available model curved bridges. Which begs the question "In that case, are the piers wedge shaped in cross-section to compensate?" I don't know the answer and it's not something that I'd previously thought about even though I'd seen the straight sides to each arch, as I've only seen one picture of the viaduct from the outside (convex) North east face towards Davos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landwasser_Viaduct#/media/File:Landwasserviadukt,_aerial_photography_from_northeast_2.jpg This does suggest that the piers are wedge shaped as they look wider than when seen from the inside of the curve, and the arches still look to be semicircular, joining the piers at the same level as on the inside face which implies the same diameter for the outside face of the arc as for the inside face. Also the views from this drone flyover video also suggests that the piers are wedge shaped. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=landwasser+viaduct&&view=detail&mid=586D448AF1EA5509175F586D448AF1EA5509175F&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dlandwasser%2Bviaduct%26%26FORM%3DVDVVXX Marshall doesn't give any details, simply showing the viaduct "as if straightened out" in his book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Easterbrook Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 That picture of the outside curve answers the question, I think. It shows the top of the arch to be the same distance below the top as on the inside. The arches therefore must be the same width on the inside and outside, so the piers must be wedge shaped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said: Which begs the question "In that case, are the piers wedge shaped in cross-section to compensate?" I don't know the answer and it's not something that I'd previously thought about even though I'd seen the straight sides to each arch, as I've only seen one picture of the viaduct from the outside (convex) North east face towards Davos. I think they are, and crudely paced out the one on the Filisur bank when I was last underneath it a couple of years ago, but I have no idea where I might find my notes. There is a distinct possibility that Bonsai RhB might be able to complete an oval with the number of Landwasser viaducts being planned in Nm9! Jon Edited June 30, 2021 by jonhall 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrTea Posted June 30, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2021 There are a few extra photos and links on this site: https://structurae.net/en/structures/landwasser-viaduct Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 1, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2021 14 hours ago, GoingUnderground said: Which begs the question "In that case, are the piers wedge shaped in cross-section to compensate?" They are indeed 5 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 6, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) Well a lucky find on eBay means I now have this so I have the side and pier drawings for this If anyone needs details I’ll try to scan it this week but as I only have an A4 scanner I can’t do the full spread in one. Edited July 6, 2021 by PaulRhB 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 6, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2021 This will give some of the main dimensions 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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