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Trelothen - a Cornish fishing harbour


Stubby47
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18 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

 

 

I then need to adapt the points, as shown by @Mick Bonwick, to improve the electrical connections.

 

Ooph! You'll be going DCC next! :wink_mini:

 

Re. turnout modifications: You might like to consider "Suzie's method", which gives you little bit more flexibility once the track has been laid. (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/search/&q=suzie's method&quick=1)

 

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Hi Stu, if I might offer an observation*

 

If I look at the plan:

 

On 18/07/2021 at 12:00, Stubby47 said:

Thanks Andrew.Not sure about the pro tag, but this is my long-term project where I want to build everything to the best of my ability.

 

Meanwhile, this section of track will be on a raised piece of ground, with no easy vehicle access.

 

1730528597_image.png.5c91072f990eb642ffba6d57cde7c9c72.png.0d4cd1534d53cf6f3ce86c1b592c1e72.png

 

It could be used as a siding for an extra coach, but that would be difficult to access by a single loco.

It could be a parcels bay, if the local sorting office was built high enough, but I'm not sure a small holiday town would need such a large-scale service.

I could dispense with it altogether,  but would that just look strange?

 

Again, much more pondering needed.


I’d suggest keeping the siding.

 

But if I look at the photo:

 

On 15/07/2021 at 21:20, Stubby47 said:

Planning.

 

918608601_20210715_2007312.jpg.cf642138086a3a2ea6f4517f47f3e408.jpg

 

I think I've got the track layout sorted, which means I can cut the board.

I have had to lose the carriage siding (at least from this board) to give enough length to the platform line.

 

I should get 4 wagons in the yard loop, which is fine as it will be easier to ascend the incline with a small train.

 

There are also 3 sidings to shuffle wagons into, so plenty of operational scope.

 

I’d be more inclined to take it out.

 

And if I were to ask a question it would be how high (from floor level) will the upper station level be?  The higher it is, the shallower the line of sight, and the more side on it looks the more I’d be inclined to take out the siding so I can see the locomotives in the run-round release.

 

Just a thought, Keith.

 

(*strictly amateur)

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

One little problem regarding putting a coach in the siding -once it has been taken out how would it get back?  If it leaves on a passenger train in order to strengthen that traiin logic didtates that it would come back on a passenger train.  But the train would then be too long for the engine to run round and shunt off the coach.  

It always pays to think a couple of moves ahead of the one you have in mind ;) 

 

Absolutely Mike and I've already thought about how difficult it would be. It would need a pilot loco to help out.

However, I will be making the loco release deliberately too short for a D600, meaning a pilot would be needed to help out when the special arrives.

So the concept of a pilot loco is not just a one-off occurrence,  which means such movements can be part of the usual and extended timetables.

Edited by Stubby47
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3 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

And if I were to ask a question it would be how high (from floor level) will the upper station level be?  The higher it is, the shallower the line of sight, and the more side on it looks the more I’d be inclined to take out the siding so I can see the locomotives in the run-round release.

 

 

Hi Keith, for home use the layout will be on the frames, and observation of the loco release process can be done within a reasonable distance.

 

Exhibibition operating height is still to be determined.

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16 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Exhibibition operating height is still to be determined.

 

Many hands make light work !

 

2199685678_9f1ee7400d_o.jpg.ccd16110d577ea225327d3de8e43dfdb.jpg

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Following a complete inability to purchase cork tiles manually, in a shop, with money, I have reverted to ordering from the internet.

 

They should be here tomorrow.

 

Mindful of @Mick Bonwick's remedial efforts to add extra ground after carefully cutting the track bed to shape, I will be laying the tiles over all the yard and lower township areas, with consideration for the small, square areas to be removed for the permanent magnets.

The tiles are 4mm thick, so a second layer may also be added, so allow subtle variations in ground level around the yard perimeter, with the potential for puddles (heavy, power-sanding probably required for this).

 

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If you do, make sure that you use a mask and get in there with the hoover too. Cork dust is deadly stuff, my father used to mix it with cat meat to poison rats. It works rather well.

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It's harmless unless inhaled or ingested, when it swells up. Rats being greedy little ****s with small innards get literally bunged up with the stuff, whereas they develop immunity to the kind of rat poison available to Joe Public.

A material that I avoid sanding is MDF, the dust from that is really nasty stuff.

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6 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

the kind of rat poison available to Joe Public

 

Interesting observation - the firm I work for sells monitoring and dose suggestion software to control said substance when given to Joe Public.

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Ooh!  
 

With apologies for the brief hijack, I read the last few posts with a mixture of alarm and relief - while not having a dedicated layout space has slowed me down (“even further”), it looks like the threefold approach to portable workspaces I’ve ended up with might be safer than I realised:

 

1.  Measuring and planning (home office - when available):


04E89245-0D12-422F-8E55-1B89BAFB08C9.jpeg.d79d24166ef42273ac8d7a2186df3664.jpeg

 

2.  Cutting, gluing, sanding and painting (outside):

 

364B272F-BBCE-4958-A35A-DEBBC75B8576.jpeg.9f43897e4429c65e1cf2a92aba672f3b.jpeg

 

3.  Drying and storage (outhouse):

 

AC0BE8F0-A980-4712-91CF-41779758A5BC.jpeg.57f29eae5dc5099ed29fee0bbf58a003.jpeg


Thank you for the wisdom and advice!  Keith.

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5 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

 

Interesting observation - the firm I work for sells monitoring and dose suggestion software to control said substance when given to Joe Public.

I've been taking it for years and it hasn't done me any harm. I do have to watch that I don't get my tail stuck when I close the car door though.

 

Roland.

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1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

I've been taking it for years and it hasn't done me any harm. I do have to watch that I don't get my tail stuck when I close the car door though.

 

Roland.

Only thing about it is that i do wish 'they' would improve the taste of the pills - i've been on them for 20 years and I still don't like it.

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More wiring pondering.

 

Cobalt wiring for the cross-over motors:

 

cobalt_connections.jpg.851e99dd5f38c0af6ac29e0dedee94bb.jpg

 

Track wiring with feeds (note new layout - loco stabling is now lower left middle) :

 

v2_yard_track_plan_feeds.png.6f118decfd4f112735d7dd6ce719b52d.png

The top black feed will be switched to allow isolation of a loco, if required.

 

Next is to draw up the control panel wiring...

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Hi Stu

I like the plan.

I was a bit worried that you were working for firm that fed cork dust to joe public.

I presume you have bought the cobalts so I won’t suggest using servos. What I will say is I would opt to use a cobalt for each turnout. They are self adjusting once set roughly by stalling not quite as effective were two are worked from one motor.

I see a few people are not used to DC wiring. However I would suggest you consider you might want to go DCC at some stage. With dcc you just tell a loco to stop and it does even if another loco comes up and gives it a nudge up the backside.

Regards Don

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3 minutes ago, Donw said:

Hi Stu

I like the plan.

I was a bit worried that you were working for firm that fed cork dust to joe public.

I presume you have bought the cobalts so I won’t suggest using servos. What I will say is I would opt to use a cobalt for each turnout. They are self adjusting once set roughly by stalling not quite as effective were two are worked from one motor.

I see a few people are not used to DC wiring. However I would suggest you consider you might want to go DCC at some stage. With dcc you just tell a loco to stop and it does even if another loco comes up and gives it a nudge up the backside.

Regards Don

 

Hi Don,

No, no cork dust here.

 

I've tried servos (on T-CATS) and found them inconsistent and the initial reset (chatter) on power up was prone to leaving them out of sync with the point tiebar.

 

I can't ever see myself going DCC.  Not only for the cost of the chips & control systems, but it's also just never fired any interest for controlling my layouts.

 

Interesting point about the cobalts, I guess I'll have to try and see if my WiT can be fettled correctly once the motor has self adjusted.

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You mentioned puddles earlier Stu, I do like puddles on Steam era Layouts.

 

These are mine from Bala Town, clear plastic with the underside painted in gloss black. glue all around so that PVA does not get under it.

2083271910_IMG_7141-Copy.JPG.6c398f6801376870f308e11bff560934.JPG

 

OR add a pond.

UDSCF3647.JPG.c3ace2cf27b9b28a0141330c60939c7c.JPG

 

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3 hours ago, Andrew P said:

You mentioned puddles earlier Stu, I do like puddles on Steam era Layouts.

OR add a pond

 

 

Puddles on steam era layouts?  Those were the days when the sun always shone ;) :jester:  (Not so much in the winter of course)

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Thinking about points and possible improvements thereof.

 

I have some new Y and curved points which don't have the under-rail tabs on the blades as seen on older points, which suggest the electrical connection at the hinge has been improved. As all the frog & blades are the same polarity,  I'm tempted to leave the points alone. Breaking the links and joining the rails as Mick shows is not going to bring any benefit, other than potentially avoiding a short if a wheel were to touch an open blade.

On the few older points I'll be using, there is a benefit in hard-wiring the blades.

Again Mick has these as droppers, but as I won't have an underboard power bus, as such, it makes more sense to me to repeat the rail to rail link used for the stock rails, but using a spring 'S' shape wire to not restrict the blade's movement. 

 

Thus in both cases the only wire dropper will be for the frog.

 

As for droppers on every piece of rail, as a kid, Dad & I would just solder rail ends together, not using fishplates. Whilst I will use fishplates, any future possible poor connection could be resolved by introducing solder into the fishplate.

 

I've not heard any evidence that not having droppers impedes performance in anyway, especially on such a short layout.

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3 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

I've not heard any evidence that not having droppers impedes performance in anyway, especially on such a short layout.

Depends where any paint manages to work it’s way into and in the longer term dirt and corrosion.

Cant speak from experience on paint as I’ve never got that far with a layout, but I did have a never explained ‘slow speed’ issue on one part of a layout in the 90s that I can only think was lost fishplate conductivity.

Paul.

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2 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Depends where any paint manages to work it’s way into and in the longer term dirt and corrosion.

Cant speak from experience on paint as I’ve never got that far with a layout, but I did have a never explained ‘slow speed’ issue on one part of a layout in the 90s that I can only think was lost fishplate conductivity.

Paul.

Years ago on a large layout in the attic I came across a loss of conductivity at track joints although things always improved in hot weather as the joints closed up.  It didn't affect running very much but it definitely led to track circuits bobbing.   When I converted the layout to 2-rail and relaid most of the track I either soldered around the rail joiners at joints or added extra feeds and running was better.  So even on short distances don't just rely on the rail joiners especially if you are going to paint the track.f 

 

(n.b problems with track circuits ceased because I could no longer use relay based track circuits on 2 -rail so approach released from red signals simply changed to a proceed aspect as the route was set.  BTW  part was worked by an NX panel with the panel circuits designed by Messrs Heath & Robinson and part was worked by a lever frame with full electrical interlocking but no interlocking on the levers - sorry ;)  

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Thanks for the comments above regarding loss of conductivity through fishplates.

 

I think, with the track plan and feeds as shown above, whilst I don't have power direct to every individual piece of rail, it's unlikely that there would be more than one intervening fishplate. 

 

 

I was quite surprised at how much wiring was needed for Tinner's Forge, and whilst this is a more complex layout, I am determined to keep the wiring to a minimum and as neat as possible underneath.

Having said that, with track feeds, point motor feeds, uncoupling magnet feeds and signal motor feeds, it will not be simple.

 

The two boards will be powered from separate cables, rather than a jumper across, probably with separate control panels for the yard and the station, and a third for the factory & main junction.

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Posted (edited)

Hi Stu,

 

You are making a lot of decisions here biased towards the "it'll probably be allright" side of things seemingly just to avoid doing some one-off work now.

 

But if you did the extra work now it would undeniably make the layout more reliable - that's why other people do it, of course. No point having beautiful, minimal wiring if the locos keep stopping at certain trouble spots, right?

 

Just putting forward the other side of the argument. :smile_mini2:

 

Edited by Harlequin
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Fair comment, Phil, I do want a reliable layout !!

 

Decisions in pixels though don't always (in my life) equate to actual occurrences, or are actually practical when the physical development starts...

 

 

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