Rail-Online Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Hi, Found a number of interesting items in the background of negs: Firstly is this a NER bogie CCT or from another railway? If it is NER then the lettering is on a n unusual position 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 Soory I could not manage to add multiple images with caption sin between, here is the second: Could this be a rare PO van and what ends in xxxT(?)TES apart from Cigarettes? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 And the last, a pair of open CCTs but with rather strange numbering MK 28. Never seen this before....... Cheers Tony 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 Found another one. Actually at Nottingham NR carriage sidings. This very short LMS Van could just be a LT&SR Hearse Van (as produced by Wills many years ago) Tony 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Tooley Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Rail-Online said: Firstly is this a NER bogie CCT or from another railway? It's an ex-North British Railway bogie covered carriage truck in LNER livery. 3 hours ago, Rail-Online said: And the last, a pair of open CCTs At the risk of being thought a pedant, these are open carriage trucks, which BR coded CTO. 'MK' is, I think, the LNER telegraphic code. These are ex-NER vehicles. Here is a similar one, E76E, in later life. (Dennis Seabrook Collection/LNER Society) D 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 Thannks Darryl, I meant to type OCT! Any idea what the writing between the N & E says on the NBR van? Those NER OCTs look easy to scratchbuild........ Cheers Tony 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Tooley Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Rail-Online said: Any idea what the writing between the N & E says on the NBR van? Not really, no. The drawing in Historic Carriage Drawings volume three of one in NBR livery shows the legend:- COACHING VAN RETURN TO CRAIGENTINNY CARRIAGE SIDINGS but I'm not convinced that's what it says here. D 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Rail-Online said: Found another one. Actually at Nottingham NR carriage sidings. This very short LMS Van could just be a LT&SR Hearse Van (as produced by Wills many years ago) Tony The LT&SR van was actually to carry bullion, hence the windows to provide a bit of light to the safes at each end. A very elusive pair of vehicles. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 4 hours ago, Rail-Online said: Could this be a rare PO van and what ends in xxxT(?)TES apart from Cigarettes? Player's Cigarettes? 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2021 4 hours ago, Rail-Online said: Soory I could not manage to add multiple images with caption sin between, here is the second: Could this be a rare PO van and what ends in xxxT(?)TES apart from Cigarettes? The general styling looks Great Central-ish - compare the insulated and refrigerated vans on pp. 138-9 of Tatlow Vol. 1. The number, 5166, sounds most unlikely for a private owner fleet, but I can't quickly relate it to anything in Tatlow Vols. 1 & 2. I suspect it is an ex-GCR vehicle that is branded up for a particular firm's traffic. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 minute ago, BernardTPM said: Player's Cigarettes? Whose factory was in Nottingham. Bingo! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 Found a second neg of it, plus one from an earlier period! It looks like a foormer GCR van to me. Tony 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forward! Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 The lamp iron mounted on the corner post is definitely something you see on MSLR and GCR wagons. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2021 Just now, Forward! said: The lamp iron mounted on the corner post is definitely something you see on MSLR and GCR wagons. But not exclusively. It's a standard fitting on any fitted or piped vehicle that might run on the tail of a passenger train. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forward! Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Are we definitely looking at the same van in all those pics? The last picture looks like a van that has step boards, and is there the faintest suggestion of diagonal side strapping? Could of course be lineside standing in front of the van, or an artefact of photography, I suppose. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 58 minutes ago, Rail-Online said: Found a second neg of it, plus one from an earlier period! Tony 9 minutes ago, Forward! said: Are we definitely looking at the same van in all those pics? The last picture looks like a van that has step boards, and is there the faintest suggestion of diagonal side strapping? Could of course be lineside standing in front of the van, or an artefact of photography, I suppose. As @Rail-Online stated - It's one from an earlier period. Different van design entirely, but the lettering is similar. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5D_Stoke Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) Fascinating pictures, I don't ever recall seeing Players Cigarettes private owner vans before. Given modern sensitivities, I can't see the likes of Hornby or Bachmann producing this as a model anytime soon... We are definitely looking at two different vans here at least, one has simple spring shoes, the other has J-hanger auxiliary suspension. And the one in the distant shot has step boards beneath the doors. I suspect all have a passenger-rated underframe judging by the clasp brakes and, as noted above, the corner lamp irons enabling inclusion in passenger trains. Would make a fascinating model, if anyone can come up with some dimensions or other details I could try a 3D print. Edited October 11, 2021 by 5D_Stoke 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 11, 2021 5 minutes ago, 5D_Stoke said: if anyone can come up with some dimensions or other details I could try a 3D print. That shouldn't be a problem since they are standard Great Central vans - see P. Tatlow, LNER Wagons Vol. 1. The only difference is in the lettering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 A vanload of ciggies in the days when everybody smoked would have been quite valuable. So would that need special security like whisky traffic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted October 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said: A vanload of ciggies in the days when everybody smoked would have been quite valuable. So would that need special security like whisky traffic? There is a quote from a book here, where it states that 170,000 cigarettes were stolen from a Player's Cigarette van and the gang got 5 years each. https://books.google.com.au/books?id=YhY7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=players+cigarettes+railway+van&source=bl&ots=Hyq6DctHz5&sig=ACfU3U3o8YrzKxDr0u17-E9UawxRTQWSaQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjH5K_Zi8TzAhWSbn0KHcePA7kQ6AF6BAgUEAM#v=onepage&q=players cigarettes railway van&f=false A bit surprising really to carry such goods in a sign written van, would have thought it would be more secure in an unmarked van. With the rising cost of tobacco products (in Australia, the sales tax automatically goes up every 6 months - to discourage smoking), a standard box van, would hold a small fortune. Edited October 12, 2021 by kevinlms More info 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) I’m 90% sure that in the 1920/30s either Mills or Leeds Model Company made that Player’s van in 0 gauge, either in wood and paper-litho, or wood with the text applied by transfers. I can’t readily find a photo on-line, but will keep looking. They made other branded vans, including Bovril, and I’m never sure which ones were based on reality, and if they were how long the real liveries lasted. PS: Here’s what I’m remembering, not quite the same though. Edited October 12, 2021 by Nearholmer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Nearholmer said: PS: Here’s what I’m remembering, not quite the same though. At least it has the vertical boarding characteristic of those Great Central vans (among many others of course). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 The Player's vans were owned by the railways, not PO. As far as I can see they were standard GC diagram 10s, but with extra locks so that they could carry bonded goods, ie the locks could be sealed by customs. They were normally used between Swansea and Nottingham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, billbedford said: The Player's vans were owned by the railways, not PO. As far as I can see they were standard GC diagram 10s, but with extra locks so that they could carry bonded goods, ie the locks could be sealed by customs. They were normally used between Swansea and Nottingham. Both seem to be fitted or at least piped. The more modern one has the features of the 16 ft vans in Tatlow Vol. 1 (so diagram 13?) though there's no photo of one with quite the arrangement of brake gear seen here. The earlier, smaller, one, with steps to the doors, doesn't match anything in the GC section of Tatlow Vol. 1 - either it didn't make it to the LNER or, just possibly, it was classed as NPCS? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 There were two GC diagram book, one in 1910 an the other later became LNE-C he's the confusion over diagram numbers. The Players vans were fitted, and brakes visible were the lifting link type used on fish vans and later 19' fitted vans. The earlier van with the step boards is what the GC called a dummy van. These were build in batches of small numbers for special traffics Diagram 13 was 16' long, like this players van, but had sliding doors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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