Peterborough North

[great northern]

W1 bashing cant believe that !! , never ever read that before !!! and my poor old A1/1 again !! a couple of my personal favourite models mine are both in LNER livery !!!

 

Layout coming on well wish i had something half the size

 

cheers

 

Mick

 

Oh all right Mick, I confess. I'm trying to convince myself that I really don't need any more "big engines", so that was just an attempt at aversion therapy There was nothing wrong with the W1 - the reason I don't have one is that the available kit doesn't quite convince me, and I can't contemplate having one scratch built at present, though John Houlden has tried to persuade me. Great Northern I have mixed feelings about. Like the W1, when it was running it was a very common sight, but not on top link work.I am trying though not to stray too far from late August 1958 when acquiring stock, again mainly to stop myself getting even more locos, so she wouldn't have been around. I know it's very pedantic and most likely rather sad, but it is one of the things that bugs me. If I know something isn't really quite right it just keeps on niggling me till I get fed up and deal with it. That applies to locos though - I'm quite sure I manage to ignore things that others would find equally annoying.

[micklner]

Mine is the Wills kit a lot of work but looks reasonable. You can also convert one from the Hornby A4 too see here

 

 

http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2443&sid=36b864755cc4731eb950441013263236 its a few pages back.

 

Mine poor old A1/1 is the PDK kit came out ok ,but not overly impressed with the kit at the time of building. There are pictures on my workbench as below.

[great northern]

Progress since I last updated has mainly been wiring, which has gone pretty smoothly. We have found three of the snap lock connectors which had not made a proper contact. Easily detected, and equally easily fixed, as they can be prised open, put right, and then snapped closed again without any problem. Given that there are already over 500 connectors on the layout, I'm not going to worry when the proportion of "faulty" ones is this small.

 

Best wiring challenge was a diamond crossing. The recommendation was for an auto reverser, but Tom Wright reckoned that if he wired the junction so that it wasn't possible for conflicting movements to take place we didn't need one. He was right too. We now have three Tortoises being run from one output of a NCE accessory decoder. NCE instructions say it may be possible to run two like that, but not always. We have three with no apparent problems, all the Tortoises throw perfectly. Good result, saves a fair bit of money, and prototypical too as conflicting movements aren't possible.

 

Our own Gravy Train,aka Peter Leyland visited yesterday and brought back the Great Northern hotel, which I had commissioned for the old layout. I had asked him to do it in red brick though, to match Allan Downes' lovely station buildings. That created a problem though when I decided to model the real thing, as the hotel, like the station, was built using yellow brick. So, I asked Peter if he could repaint it Here is what he came up with. Apologies once again for poor photos, even when I shone an angle poise lamp with a daylight bulb on it this was the best I could do. The better of the two is of course the one where I didn't get my finger out of the way

 

 

 

I think it looks even better now. He's done a great job. To while away the time while awaiting the last three boards I'm expanding my collection of loaded coal wagons. I've used Geoscenics products for this job. Easy to do, and they give a good result. I'm in the middle of weathering them at present, and will post some photos when completed.

[S.A.C Martin]

Looks absolutely terrific - I remember seeing a few pics of the GN hotel in red brick in BRM I think, and it looks rather more prototypical here - but do you know, I prefer the red brick!

[great northern]

Looks absolutely terrific - I remember seeing a few pics of the GN hotel in red brick in BRM I think, and it looks rather more prototypical here - but do you know, I prefer the red brick!

 

We all see things differently don't we? It'd be a boring world if we didn't. For some reason I like the GN yellow brick, even when it is dirty, as it always was. I guess for me the other factor is that I know this is what the original building looks like (if it hasn't been demolished by now) so it is "right" for me, and it would niggle me if I'd left it red brick.

[ianwales]

Hi Gilbert

 

What an impressive layout, I've read it through three or four time now, very impressed with how you planned it out to give you the essence of Peterborough even though you have had to leave big chunks of it out you have still left your self with the main elements which will give you a layout that can be operated correctly, makes me want to have another look at Grantham to see if I can acheive a similar compression. I have a similar space to you and I also want to have an operationally correct layout as it is this side of it that interests me the most.

 

Incidentaly, you were asking about thoughts on operating the schedule and the number of moves needed to represent the timetable through Peterborough, for what it is worth I spent 3 or 4 hours earlier this week helping my friend operate his layout of Chippenham set in 1948(see MRJ 107). For this he uses the full 24 hour timetable which is broken down into 290 moves at he end of which the stock is back in the same position ready to start the schedule again, with 3 operating positions and operating 7 or 8 times a month with different people he reckons it takes him about 6 months to carry out the same moves at the same operating position, hence the layout never gets boring and he still gets as much pleasure operating it now as he did when he built it 30+ years ago.

 

I shall look forward to following this thread.

 

Ian

[great northern]

Hi Ian,

 

Thanks for those very kind comments.I'm pleased to say that I am just as happy with what I'm doing now that it is actually taking shape as I was when it was just a paper exercise. I'm also grateful for your information about the operating sequence. Time will tell so far as that is concerned. If I find that some of my locos and rolling stock are only getting used once every month or less I might have a rethink, but I would vastly prefer to operate the correct sequence if it turns out to be practicable. The fact that your friend never gest bored with operating his layout after so many years will be a big factor in making my mind up.

 

I gave serious cosideration to Grantham when searching for a location for this layout. It has a lot going for it, and I spent a lot more time there in my youth than I did at Peterborough which was just that bit too far away. In fact I drew up plans for both right at the start of this project. The problem I couldn't overcome was that the room isn't wide enough for the Nottingham branch and the main line to diverge in the correct directions. I would have had to make the main line curve in from the North the wrong way, and in the end I decided that it then really wouldn't be Grantham. A number of fellow ECML modellers were of the same opinion, so reluctantly I discarded it. Also, if one is going to model the locoshed, or at least part of it, which I would regard as essential, because it was a huge part of the attraction of the place that you could stand on the platform and look at main line power simmering just a few yards away, you would finish up with a very wide baseboard indeed, and I don't see how you would get to anything in the middle if you needed to. I believe Roy Jackson has put an access hatch in on Retford to deal with that, but of course he has a huge space to start with. Don't let me put you off though, I'd love to see a model of Grantham back in the good old days, so perhaps you can find a way round the problems. If I ever won the lottery and could afford a purpose built no expense spared layout room I'd certainly want to look at it again.

 

The last three baseboards are due to arrive on 9th March, when finally I'll be able to see the whole thing "in the flesh". It's a very exciting prospect. The station buidings are also coming on well so by the summer the whole thing should begin to look well on the way to complete, and we should be able to start operating properly too. I reckon that to get a project of this size to that stage in less than two years isn't bad going.

[ianwales]

Hi Ian,

 

I gave serious cosideration to Grantham when searching for a location for this layout. It has a lot going for it, and I spent a lot more time there in my youth than I did at Peterborough which was just that bit too far away. In fact I drew up plans for both right at the start of this project. The problem I couldn't overcome was that the room isn't wide enough for the Nottingham branch and the main line to diverge in the correct directions. I would have had to make the main line curve in from the North the wrong way, and in the end I decided that it then really wouldn't be Grantham. A number of fellow ECML modellers were of the same opinion, so reluctantly I discarded it. Also, if one is going to model the locoshed, or at least part of it, which I would regard as essential, because it was a huge part of the attraction of the place that you could stand on the platform and look at main line power simmering just a few yards away, you would finish up with a very wide baseboard indeed, and I don't see how you would get to anything in the middle if you needed to. .

 

Hi Gilbert

 

I would really only be trying to get an essence of Grantham if that is what I decide on, The main baseboard in my layout room has access both sides so reaching either side would not be a problem. As for the Notingham line, my friends layout of Chippenham doesn't have room for the Calne branch junction so he just runs the Clane branch trains down the main line in their correct place in the timetable, not having the branch line is a lot less of a detraction than not having the branch trains appearing in the station which would leave other trains unable to be run as some destinations were served from Chippenham by trains originating from Calne.

 

However, I will keep your points in mind as it may end up looking a lot less like Grantham than I would like.

 

I've already worked out a schedule for Grantham if it gets built as I enjoy doing it and it helps me plan the storage area, the one for Grantham for a 24 hr period runs to 433 moves with everything getting back to the start position and requires-

 

1 x Pullman set

2 x Express sets

1 x Local set

2 x DMU's

1 x Parcels set which at one point in the timetable splits to give 2 parcels trains

3 x Freight sets

1 x Mineral for the High Dyke trains

 

For which I would need a 12 road storage yard

 

Ian

[great northern]

Hi Ian,

 

Obviously you are sensible. I on the other hand am totally deluded, so I have decided I must have:-

 

The Elizabethan

The Fair Maid

The afternoon Talisman

The Heart of Midlothian.

The Flying Scotsman

The Queen of Scots

The Tees Tyne Pullman

The Northumbrian

The White Rose

The West Riding.

1100 KX - Glasgow

2 x up Leeds

2 x down Leeds

2 x up Newcastle

2 x down Newcastle.

KX- York/Hull/Doncaster buffet car set

KX- Grantham buffet set.

 

What's more over the years I have acquired most of them, though all are limited to ten coaches maximum. That's also why the fiddle yard is so large. Running that lot in sequence Up and Down is going to be complicated and time consuming, which is why I wonder if I have been too ambitious. We shall see. Oh, and there are local trains plus some parcels and class C and H goods as well,and trip workings. Perhaps I really have bitten off more than i can chew

[ianwales]

Hi Gilbert

 

I see what you mean, putting a running sequence together for that lot should be great fun.

 

Ian.

[davidw]

Hi Ian,

 

Obviously you are sensible. I on the other hand am totally deluded, so I have decided I must have:-

 

The Elizabethan

The Fair Maid

The afternoon Talisman

The Heart of Midlothian.

The Flying Scotsman

The Queen of Scots

The Tees Tyne Pullman

The Northumbrian

The White Rose

The West Riding.

1100 KX - Glasgow

2 x up Leeds

2 x down Leeds

2 x up Newcastle

2 x down Newcastle.

KX- York/Hull/Doncaster buffet car set

KX- Grantham buffet set.

 

What's more over the years I have acquired most of them, though all are limited to ten coaches maximum. That's also why the fiddle yard is so large. Running that lot in sequence Up and Down is going to be complicated and time consuming, which is why I wonder if I have been too ambitious. We shall see. Oh, and there are local trains plus some parcels and class C and H goods as well,and trip workings. Perhaps I really have bitten off more than i can chew

 

No Morning Talisman or Sleepers?

[great northern]

Hi David,

 

In summer 1958 the morning Talisman had been extended to Perth and renamed the Fair Maid, so that's what I have. I don't have room for sleepers unfortunately, so my timetable starts and finishes before and after they would have come through. And think what it would cost to do the Aberdonian - 14 vehicles.

[davidw]

Hi David,

 

In summer 1958 the morning Talisman had been extended to Perth and renamed the Fair Maid, so that's what I have. I don't have room for sleepers unfortunately, so my timetable starts and finishes before and after they would have come through. And think what it would cost to do the Aberdonian - 14 vehicles.

I didn't know that....

[great northern]

I didn't know that....

 

It was a very short lived experiment, which only lasted for a year. Obviously the operating figures didn't look good, so at the end of the 1958 summer timetable the train reverted to KX - Edinburgh only, and to the Talisman. They tried extending the Heart of Midlothian to Perth as well, with the same result.

[davidw]

Those new boards arrived yet Gilbert?

[great northern]

They have David, and we've spent the day installing them. Nearly finished, so a curry and a beer or two took over. I'm out belting poor defenceless golf balls tomorrow, so hopefully will post some photos on Friday. It looks stunning

[davidw]

Cool I will look forward to it!

[Guest LNER Tom]

They have David, and we've spent the day installing them. Nearly finished, so a curry and a beer or two took over. I'm out belting poor defenceless golf balls tomorrow, so hopefully will post some photos on Friday. It looks stunning

 

Have fun Gilbert

 

Are these baseboards the remaining ones required....and then trains can run completley around something to look forward to!

 

I remember you talking about the station buildings being made for you...whats the ETA on those?

[great northern]

Patience hath it's own reward. Last three boards arrived on Wednesday, so here are some pics of what the complete layout will look like.First one continues from end of baseboard 4.

 

 

Here's a view taken from the other side of the layout

 

 

The bridge is only temporary. A correct one which fits the site will arrive later. Next we have a close up of a fairly complex area - platform 6 line on left, then up slow and down slow.

 

 

and a close up of that lovely single slip

 

 

next is a close up of the approach to Crescent Bridge.

 

 

Up and Down main in the centre, then access to number 1 bay, and on the left lines to loading dock.

 

Next is a view from the other side of the bridge.

 

The line on the far right will eventually extend further.

And here is the end of the line.

 

From here I lay the rest of the fiddle yard, which hopefully may line up with the 18 roads already in place. Now I have a dilemma. This lovely trackwork is the wrong side of the bridge, which is where the "real world" ends. It's not prototypical, and it will be visible, but I wish it could be incorporated into the layout proper. All suggestions gratefully received.

 

Now a view of the whole thing looking North. I'll try to improve on this later.

 

And I think this deserves another close up.

 

Finally for now an overall view looking South. I'll play around with some more later.

[davidw]

Got to admit - hand built track looks beautiful. The Peterborough 'dogleg' is quite apparent.

 

 

 

From here I lay the rest of the fiddle yard, which hopefully may line up with the 18 roads already in place. Now I have a dilemma. This lovely trackwork is the wrong side of the bridge, which is where the "real world" ends. It's not prototypical, and it will be visible, but I wish it could be incorporated into the layout proper. All suggestions gratefully received.

 

 

It's so 'nice' ignore reality?

[MarstonVale]

looks blooming marvellous,

 

Paul

[BlackRat]

Every now and again there comes a thread which makes you take stock of what you are doing and what you are trying to achieve.

 

This is one of them.

 

Superb, and a train hasn't even run on it yet!

[great northern]

Got to admit - hand built track looks beautiful. The Peterborough 'dogleg' is quite apparent.

 

 

 

It's so 'nice' ignore reality?

 

I find it hard to do that David. Since posting earlier I've has another look at the real track plan, which bears no relation to what I have. I'll just have to accept it I think. It will still be very good to look at after all, even if it is "off stage".

[great northern]

Every now and again there comes a thread which makes you take stock of what you are doing and what you are trying to achieve.

 

This is one of them.

 

Superb, and a train hasn't even run on it yet!

 

I value that very much, coming as it does from someone who has himself produced a layout as good as Carrick Road. I need to keep up with, or preferably one step ahead of our mutual friend Tetley's, so such kind comments are very welcome.

[Guest LNER Tom]

What a difference a week makes!

 

I can't quite get over the difference in such a such a short space of time since I was down at yours last Monday....glad to see the layout is almost joined Gilbert, at least you can watch the trains go buy, even if there isn't the infrastructure in place.

 

Have you and Tom wired the new section of layout yet, or is it a case of waiting until the tracks finally meet before wiring the last section?

 

Great to see a cracking update

 

Tom