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great northern

Peterborough North

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6 hours ago, islandbridgejct said:

... Or some track coming from the Midland lines, out of scene, and with a coach sitting on it, to hide the join? (or to hide the place where the join should be.)

Food for thought there, thank you. I shall look at this carefully tomorrow, as it seems potentially to be a really good alternative to what I've tried so far.

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One aspect of the placement of the backscene photo that goes in its favour is the the Nene Carriage Sidings (which are shown in the photo) are at a lower level than the main line.  The main line rises up to pass over the river, and the line towards Peterboro East and the GE drops down to pass under the main line, with the carriage sidings being between the two but closer to the level of the GE line, so the apparent separation from the lines which Gilbert has modelled is not so incorrect.

 

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G'day Folks

 

Used to be 'Fun' trying to get your train out of Nene C/Sidings on a wet day.

 

manna

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Well folks, not only have I thought, I have also acted, and have some images for your consideration. First though a bit of theory. You all know by now that I like things to be "right", and that I can get considerably irked if they aren't. The paradox though is that PN isn't "right" in many respects. I don't need to beat myself up over that, as I long ago realised that if I wanted it to be right in every respect, I couldn't do it.  What I have gives me many hours of pleasure, and will continue to do so. That surely should be the ultimate objective.

 

However, and there always is one with me, I still have that instinct when dealing with an individual aspect to try to get it right, which means as close as possible to the real thing. Applying that to the corner behind Crescent Bridge, I immediately have to face the fact that it isn't right at all, as there is a far sharper curve than ever was in reality. Do I then go for what may look right, even though in prototypical terms it is wrong? If I do that, I can very easily get this.

 

 

1815193525_1withcoaches.JPG.eab69d0d6d6aba83e60523717894e23e.JPG

 

 

1172198486_2withcoachescloser.JPG.fff77b2d319f567f2dca69c6d0bc9b47.JPG

Visually, that immediately solves a lot of problems, but of course it isn't right, as there wasn't another track behind the Down slow in reality. However, if the GN tracks had curved as mine do, might not the Midland tracks have done the same?  Then it would arguably be right for PN in my world, though wrong in the real one. I can of course achieve this result by always having something on the Down slow when taking this shot, but there wouldn't have been, so that bugs me.

 

Now to the other possibility. Nene sidings can be seen on prototype images. Surprising in a way, for, as Steve says, they are at a lower level, but if it is to be right in the real world, they should be there. So, can I improve on my earlier effort? I felt that a major problem was the track in front of the sidings which didn't match up at all with the rest of the layout, so I revisited the image I had used, and cropped it more closely. Here is the result.

 

 

1246038477_3withscene.JPG.2b6dd1d91bdbd561027f7f823729c79b.JPG

 

Despite the gloom outside, any more exposure than this rendered the backscene invisible, so this is what we have. I think that is a big improvement and my brain tells me it is more near to reality. It would need some more tweaking, but nothing that can't be done.

 

So there we go. The choice seems to be between "wrong but looks right", or "more nearly right, but still wrong". Why is the last image still wrong? The over sharp curve, of course, but also the fact that the backscene isn't PN at all - it's the North end of Doncaster works sidings. You may remember though my attempts at reproducing a prototype image, which didn't work, as the sidings were very much out of focus.

 

Over to you folks.

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25 minutes ago, great northern said:

Well folks, not only have I thought, I have also acted, and have some images for your consideration. First though a bit of theory. You all know by now that I like things to be "right", and that I can get considerably irked if thtooey aren't. The paradox though is that PN isn't "right" in many respects. I don't need to beat myself up over that, as I long ago realised that if I wanted it to be right in every respect, I couldn't do it.  What I have gives me many hours of pleasure, and will continue to do so. That surely should be the ultimate objective.

 

However, and there always is one with me, I still have that instinct when dealing with an individual aspect to try to get it right, which means as close as possible to the real thing. Applying that to the corner behind Crescent Bridge, I immediately have to face the fact that it isn't right at all, as there is a far sharper curve than ever was in reality. Do I then go for what may look right, even though in prototypical terms it is wrong? If I do that, I can very easily get this.

 

 

1815193525_1withcoaches.JPG.eab69d0d6d6aba83e60523717894e23e.JPG

 

 

1172198486_2withcoachescloser.JPG.fff77b2d319f567f2dca69c6d0bc9b47.JPG

Visually, that immediately solves a lot of problems, but of course it isn't right, as there wasn't another track behind the Down slow in reality. However, if the GN tracks had curved as mine do, might not the Midland tracks have done the same?  Then it would arguably be right for PN in my world, though wrong in the real one. I can of course achieve this result by always having something on the Down slow when taking this shot, but there wouldn't have been, so that bugs me.

 

Now to the other possibility. Nene sidings can be seen on prototype images. Surprising in a way, for, as Steve says, they are at a lower level, but if it is to be right in the real world, they should be there. So, can I improve on my earlier effort? I felt that a major problem was the track in front of the sidings which didn't match up at all with the rest of the layout, so I revisited the image I had used, and cropped it more closely. Here is the result.

 

 

1246038477_3withscene.JPG.2b6dd1d91bdbd561027f7f823729c79b.JPG

 

Despite the gloom outside, any more exposure than this rendered the backscene invisible, so this is what we have. I think that is a big improvement and my brain tells me it is more near to reality. It would need some more tweaking, but nothing that can't be done.

 

So there we go. The choice seems to be between "wrong but looks right", or "more nearly right, but still wrong". Why is the last image still wrong? The over sharp curve, of course, but also the fact that the backscene isn't PN at all - it's the North end of Doncaster works sidings. You may remember though my attempts at reproducing a prototype image, which didn't work, as the sidings were very much out of focus.

 

Over to you folks.

Gilbert

 

I like the one with the backscene more than the one with the coaches, but how about trying both, with perhaps the coaches not disappearing behind the signal box. If they looked a bit further away and you could see some backscene between them and the box, I think it might look better still.

 

Re backscene being wrong, i find that it does not appear to look much out of place.

 

Lovely images of a great model again.

 

Lloyd

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29 minutes ago, great northern said:

...

 

Now to the other possibility. Nene sidings can be seen on prototype images. Surprising in a way, for, as Steve says, they are at a lower level, but if it is to be right in the real world, they should be there. So, can I improve on my earlier effort? I felt that a major problem was the track in front of the sidings which didn't match up at all with the rest of the layout, so I revisited the image I had used, and cropped it more closely. Here is the result.

 

 

1246038477_3withscene.JPG.2b6dd1d91bdbd561027f7f823729c79b.JPG

 

Despite the gloom outside, any more exposure than this rendered the backscene invisible, so this is what we have. I think that is a big improvement and my brain tells me it is more near to reality. It would need some more tweaking, but nothing that can't be done.

 

So there we go. The choice seems to be between "wrong but looks right", or "more nearly right, but still wrong". Why is the last image still wrong? The over sharp curve, of course, but also the fact that the backscene isn't PN at all - it's the North end of Doncaster works sidings. You may remember though my attempts at reproducing a prototype image, which didn't work, as the sidings were very much out of focus.

 

Over to you folks.

 

I think just placing the empty track across the bottom of the scene hides the lack of a join, and makes the photo work well as a background. As we'll only ever see this under Crescent Bridge, from close to rail level, you could actually use the full photo, because the only difficulty with it (for those of us viewing on the web anyway) is at the bottom where the tracks fail to join up. Placing the carriages in the way (though I suggested it) puts too much in the background and detracts from the train swinging around the curve (which may not be prototypical but looks good.)

 

That's my 2d worth.

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10 hours ago, great northern said:

Well folks, not only have I thought, I have also acted, and have some images for your consideration. First though a bit of theory. You all know by now that I like things to be "right", and that I can get considerably irked if they aren't. The paradox though is that PN isn't "right" in many respects. I don't need to beat myself up over that, as I long ago realised that if I wanted it to be right in every respect, I couldn't do it.  What I have gives me many hours of pleasure, and will continue to do so. That surely should be the ultimate objective.

 

However, and there always is one with me, I still have that instinct when dealing with an individual aspect to try to get it right, which means as close as possible to the real thing. Applying that to the corner behind Crescent Bridge, I immediately have to face the fact that it isn't right at all, as there is a far sharper curve than ever was in reality. Do I then go for what may look right, even though in prototypical terms it is wrong? If I do that, I can very easily get this.

 

 

1815193525_1withcoaches.JPG.eab69d0d6d6aba83e60523717894e23e.JPG

 

 

1172198486_2withcoachescloser.JPG.fff77b2d319f567f2dca69c6d0bc9b47.JPG

Visually, that immediately solves a lot of problems, but of course it isn't right, as there wasn't another track behind the Down slow in reality. However, if the GN tracks had curved as mine do, might not the Midland tracks have done the same?  Then it would arguably be right for PN in my world, though wrong in the real one. I can of course achieve this result by always having something on the Down slow when taking this shot, but there wouldn't have been, so that bugs me.

 

Now to the other possibility. Nene sidings can be seen on prototype images. Surprising in a way, for, as Steve says, they are at a lower level, but if it is to be right in the real world, they should be there. So, can I improve on my earlier effort? I felt that a major problem was the track in front of the sidings which didn't match up at all with the rest of the layout, so I revisited the image I had used, and cropped it more closely. Here is the result.

 

 

1246038477_3withscene.JPG.2b6dd1d91bdbd561027f7f823729c79b.JPG

 

Despite the gloom outside, any more exposure than this rendered the backscene invisible, so this is what we have. I think that is a big improvement and my brain tells me it is more near to reality. It would need some more tweaking, but nothing that can't be done.

 

So there we go. The choice seems to be between "wrong but looks right", or "more nearly right, but still wrong". Why is the last image still wrong? The over sharp curve, of course, but also the fact that the backscene isn't PN at all - it's the North end of Doncaster works sidings. You may remember though my attempts at reproducing a prototype image, which didn't work, as the sidings were very much out of focus.

 

Over to you folks.

I think the coach looks better and if this was a fictitious layout, I’d go for that. But this is PN. You’ve invested heavily in creating a superb model of a real location. So I think you have to try to do the best you can to replicate what was there I.e. Nene sidings. It won’t be perfect, backscenes never are, but it will be PN.

 

Sorry to create more work! 
 

Andy

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....  put a few random wagons on the mainline...  to give a foreshortened impression of the sidings?

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Dull day? The heavy shadow in the first pic implies bright sunshine, as does the light on the 'box in the second. Your lighting possibilities are a lot better than some. 

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Just now, Oldddudders said:

Dull day? The heavy shadow in the first pic implies bright sunshine, as does the light on the 'box in the second. Your lighting possibilities are a lot better than some. 

It is hard to explain if you haven't seen the room Ian. It really was dull that day, as it was yesterday when I took those experimental images. However, to get any light at all in those conditions I have to open the blinds, and what light there is coming in is still strong enough to cast shadows. It helps if I convince myself not to point the camera into the light, but I'm not always able to do that.

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Like Ian I rather like the lighting in those three black and white images.

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13 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I think the coach looks better and if this was a fictitious layout, I’d go for that. But this is PN. You’ve invested heavily in creating a superb model of a real location. So I think you have to try to do the best you can to replicate what was there I.e. Nene sidings. It won’t be perfect, backscenes never are, but it will be PN.

 

Sorry to create more work! 
 

Andy

Thank you Andy. On reflection, I think that sums it up. That's what should be there, and so something  must be devised to ensure that it is.

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It's those vans again! Actually that is a 'real railway' shot. Trains were never everywhere all the time, while quiet corners could be found at any location. Smashing view. 

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Gilbert,

 

That last photo is a cracking shot, overflowing with genuine railway atmosphere.

 

Great stuff!

 

Eric

 

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3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

It's those vans again! Actually that is a 'real railway' shot. Trains were never everywhere all the time, while quiet corners could be found at any location. Smashing view. 

Thanks Ian. I did make sure the vans weren't illegally parked too.

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3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

It's those vans again! Actually that is a 'real railway' shot. Trains were never everywhere all the time, while quiet corners could be found at any location. Smashing view. 

Thanks Ian. I did make sure the vans weren't illegally parked too.

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3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

It's those vans again! Actually that is a 'real railway' shot. Trains were never everywhere all the time, while quiet corners could be found at any location. Smashing view. 

Thanks Ian. I did make sure the vans weren't illegally parked too.

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