Bachmann announce Blue Pullman

[coachmann]

Glad to see that picture. It is a reminder of how BR turned a sleek unit into a parrot-faced blob.

[robertcwp]

BR did some experiments with yellow ends on the two six-car sets in between their withdrawal from the Midland Pullman and their entry into regular WR service as a 12-car set on the Bristol Pullman. There are photos in the Kevin Robertson book. At least one end of one set had the entire end including cab roof and bottom of cab front around the buffers painted yellow, wrapping round the cab sides including cab doors. I have only seen a black and white photo but it looked hideous. 60090 had a yellow panel like the final version but not wrapping round onto the cab sides below the windows. So far as I can establish, the style finally adopted for the units was that illustrated in the photo (by Ivo Peters) linked in an earlier post. The six-car sets had this style when fitted with MU jumpers and it was also applied to at least two of the 8-car sets. I don't know whether the third 8-car set carried the style as it went into grey/blue in mid-1967. I only have a black and white photo of an 8-car set in nanking blue with yellow ends in my collection. The yellow covered the same area as on the final grey/blue livery.

 

The key point is that if Bachmann do the 6-car set with yellow ends in a condition in which it ran regularly in service, they also need to put the jumper cables on. This was how the 6-car sets operated from March 1967 until their final overhauls at the turn of the decade. Note that the two 6-car sets did not see regular service between April 1966, when the Midland Pullman was withdrawn, and March 1967, when the sets went onto the Bristol Pullman. The 6-car sets worked individually on off-peak trains to Bristol and Oxford but these were withdrawn in 1969 (IIRC).

[Garry D100]

Thanks chaps for your input, some intersting information and pictures there.

Must admit I quite like it with full yellow ends, but will still keep my order for the original colour scheme.

Units do not come much smarter than that.

 

Incidently found a nice set of pictures here, http://d7606.fotopic.net/c839897.html some interesting shots inside the coaches too.

[craigwelsh]

Incidently found a nice set of pictures here, http://d7606.fotopic.net/c839897.html some interesting shots inside the coaches too.

Those shots are frames from the BFI Blue Pullman film, not sure how official they are mind! The BFI sells its own stills of some of its movies in much higher quality on their website.

[petee19]

Can I recommend two very good books on the BP that have been published recently,they are,The Blue Pullman,and The Blue Pullman Supliment,both contain a wealth of information and photographs on these iconic trains.

 

Both books are published by Kestral Railway Books.

 

I would just like to point out that I have no commercial interest in these publications.

 

Peter.

[Downendian]

Completely agree with Paul here, the idea that Olivia's had any impact on Bachmann doing one is complete nonsense and Bachmann have probably saved people money here by announcing their intention early. Hornby announced early with the LMS 4-6-0s to avoid a similar issue with Bachmann and the same with the Hall/Grange situation. Retaining the deposits rather than offering a direct refund is a good idea for them as it avoids a massive capital shortfall that they may want to use towards the EM1..

 

The problem with the sets by that point is that they started to swap coaches between Western and Midland Pullmans if you look at Kevin Robertson's book. If Bachmann do a pure Midland set in reverse colours it'll need the jumper cables adding first at least which will need a new nose slide in the tool.

 

 

Hmm I don't think that you can say with complete confidence that Olivias actions had direct impact on Bachmann's actions are nonsense- unless you have evidence otherwise? It certainly has accelerated the process of a BP coming to market, which was my original point, which you have taken out of context.

 

Sure you and Paul may be right- Bachmann and OT/Heljan were working independently and knew nothing of each other's activities. But then why did Bachmann wait so long before announcing their intentions between the OT/Heljan announcement and theirs? A lot of us had put deposits down by then. We would have had committed money to the Heljan version if it went head-to head with Bachmanns. We couldn't claim deposits back on a project which was proceeding in spite of a competing and more than likely better, cheaper product. Anyhow I've asked for my money back, as I'd rather have the cash making interest in my account than Olivia's, but still admire them for taking the risk.

 

 

What has almost certainly happened is that OT have forced Bachmann's hand a lot earlier than they had wanted. Bachmann to their credit are working to reduce their lead in times from announcement to product, and wanted a March 2011 announcement for an October product.

 

All in all we have an ideal outcome, a relatively cheap BP which if judging by the spec of recent Bachy products will be top notch.

 

Neil

[S.A.C Martin]

My apologies Andy for "hotlinking" plum forgot in the rush to post the link.

[The Stationmaster]

There seems to be a lot of invisible ink in this thread.

['CHARD]

I think we're left with no other option, Mike.

 

We must invite Olivia and Bachmann onto the Jeremy Kyle Show to take a DNA test over whose this baby train really is.

 

Mind you, I wonder if Security will be able to keep control of the audience.

[beast66606]

There seems to be a lot of invisible ink in this thread.

 

I've only made one comment

 

I think we should drop the "who did it first" aspect of the discussion, I would venture that the truth would be impossible to find so why worry ? - the simple facts (ignoring Hornby's musing) are it's been announced by Bachmann and Olivias have decided not to proceed - anything else is pure speculation and, in any case, is now consigned to history.

[craigwelsh]

Hmm I don't think that you can say with complete confidence that Olivias actions had direct impact on Bachmann's actions are nonsense- unless you have evidence otherwise? It certainly has accelerated the process of a BP coming to market, which was my original point, which you have taken out of context.

 

What has almost certainly happened is that OT have forced Bachmann's hand a lot earlier than they had wanted. Bachmann to their credit are working to reduce their lead in times from announcement to product, and wanted a March 2011 announcement for an October product.

 

All in all we have an ideal outcome, a relatively cheap BP which if judging by the spec of recent Bachy products will be top notch.

 

Neil

It hasn't done the bit in bold though. It wont get to market earlier I would think as Bachmann couldn't really prioritise it now just because they had to announce early. It'll turn up when they wanted it to turn up but now has a longer lead time from announcement.

 

I doubt Bachmann had much idea what Olivia's were doing for a while, most people reading the thread certainly didn't! No idea what went on behind the scenes but its dead now anyway.

 

I agree with your other bit though just not your use of 'to market'. Certainly agree with the last bit and we just have to wait now and hope preproduction is available to scrutinise to get this 100% right.

 

It'll be interesting if Hornby still bother with a Railroad version to pinch a few sales off the trainset users on the back of this.

[coachmann]

Blue Pullman for them oop north......................Brighton Belle for them daaan saath next?

 

 

[Ragtag]

Blue Pullman is still daaan saath for those of us in the civilised world

[frobisher]

I think we should drop the "who did it first" aspect of the discussion, I would venture that the truth would be impossible to find so why worry ?

 

But we need to know who to blame, who the bad guys are or at least point fingers and froth. (Coat by the door you say..? On my way).

[gordon s]

Oh no, not the b**** word again......

 

We'll be bringing back lynch mobs at this rate...

[Garry D100]

Following on from my previous question re liveries and the half yellow end I notice this on Bachmanns website.

 

31-255 Midland Pullman 6 Car Unit

 

31-256 Midland Pullman 6 Car Unit BR Blue Half Yellow Ends

 

The last one intrigues me further now, BR Blue?

Could they mean the final livery of reverse blue grey with yellow ends?

 

Might email Bachmann and see if they can clarify.

 

 

 

 

[dibber25]

Quite alarming to see the degree of inaccuracy over the quoted colours! The Diesel Pullmans were NOT BR blue (as in Rail blue - the Corporate Image description of the colour) until they received the Corporate Image reversed grey/blue scheme. Initially they were Pullman (not BR) Nanking blue and white. What next - will we see the Brighton Belle (when it's launched) described as BR chocolate and cream? There's enough argument about colours and shades of colours, without the basic descriptions actually being wrong.

CHRIS LEIGH

[coachmann]

Quite alarming to see the degree of inaccuracy over the quoted colours! The Diesel Pullmans were NOT BR blue (as in Rail blue - the Corporate Image description of the colour) until they received the Corporate Image reversed grey/blue scheme. Initially they were Pullman (not BR) Nanking blue and white. What next - will we see the Brighton Belle (when it's launched) described as BR chocolate and cream? There's enough argument about colours and shades of colours, without the basic descriptions actually being wrong.

CHRIS LEIGH

This is only the beginning Chris. Wait while the model actually comes out and people start arguing over its shade of blue. I hope Bachmann has obtained a sample of the real thing! Colour slides/negs/repro displays shades ranging from lightish blue to purplish blue.

 

Larry

[Flood]

I'm for blaming anyone who apportions blame against anyone else, in other words I'm fed up of hearing about this.

 

Sorry to say this folks but you've now run out of reasons to post on this thread until perhaps photos of the pre-production model are released.

[Guest Phil]

Well,

 

'Suspect No.1' A well known manufacturer that had the project in hand for a good while prior to OT's announcement, and that has had projects which have had some considerable delays, but seem to turn up eventually.

 

'Suspect No.2' A shop, with no record of a limited edition commission, who announced the BP with no clear information for prospective punters to make an informed choice or an estimate of costing. And to quote from another post 'They have been exposed as ethically challenged for selling limited editions, that are still in some cases available from the original suppliers, at large mark ups.'

 

Difficult choice eh?

 

Paul, you've missed out Suspect no 3, the 100:1 outsider.

 

Thats the company that are (allegedly) sitting on the originals and are going to whack them out with the new DMU motor bogie in the railroad range.

 

Simon was just keeping schtummm !!!

 

 

This is only the beginning Chris. Wait while the model actually comes out and people start arguing over its shade of blue. I hope Bachmann has obtained a sample of the real thing! Colour slides/negs/repro displays shades ranging from lightish blue to purplish blue.

 

Larry

 

Reckon the administrators for Fragonset might have still have a tin left from when Fragonset repainted some mk2 "coffins" into blue pullman livery.

[orcadian]

I'm for blaming anyone who apportions blame against anyone else, in other words I'm fed up of hearing about this.

 

Sorry to say this folks but you've now run out of reasons to post on this thread until perhaps photos of the pre-production model are released.

 

Well said, Flood!

 

You are not alone in holding this opinion!

 

Richard

[coachmann]

Reckon the administrators for Fragonset might have still have a tin left from when Fragonset repainted some mk2 "coffins" into blue pullman livery.

But was it the 1960's Nanking blue?

[Mod3]

Gentlemen - the discussions are wandering into areas which are speculation, this thread will be locked until more information is forthcoming.