Bachmann announce Blue Pullman

[Andy Y]

I took Andy's posting to mean that the motor would be in one of the power cars, not a centre vehicle.

 

Andi

 

My understanding from a conversation today is that there will be two powered power cars. I must stress that it was a conversation and not covered definitively in the specification at the head of the topic.

 

 

 

[Implacable]

Well for me the matter is very simple

 

I am very pleased that Bachmann have made this announcement because

 

 

 

1) It will be available from all stores, meaning it is going to be sold at a competitive price, as opposed to one store monopoly price. I can support my local model shop.

 

 

 

2) If anything ever goes wrong with my model, there is a genuine UK service team to help me. Barwell are usually good with spares, though not as good as Margate at the moment.

 

 

 

3) Bachmann are at the top of their game at present it seems. The shots of the EPB and MPV that I have seen look superb. They are making the best value Modern image models at the moment. They deliver more features for your bucks.

 

 

 

4) Track record of the 4 CEP etc means that it will be a good quality product, and no doubt be ready for sound etc, (where on earth are they going to record one though?) How many Heljan locos have sound as a factory fitted feature?

 

 

 

5) I can buy a whole Midland Pullman train, nothing I have heard from the Olivia trains hints at that.

 

 

 

 

6) I am pretty sure that the old Hornby Blue Pullman is under scale, so even if they did dust it off, it is not really going to be up to the standard what we want in 2011 is it.

 

 

 

I know that there will be the inevitable criticism about jumping on a band wagon, but lets not forget that the 4CEPS ran through Margate for 50 years, Bachmann model it and hey presto, here comes a 4 VEP in a red box. So hasty was the decision to get the 4 VEP into the Margate range that their catalogue pictures looked like an awful after thought. So they are all guilty of that a little bit.

 

 

 

How do we know it will be a great model? Well, we don’t, but the track record is looking good at this stage. The class 70 looks like a winner. And remember this, yes Bachmann have made right balls of a few things in the past. The first swipe at the class 37/4 was tragic. However, they have always gone back at some point and corrected the mistake. More than can be said for others. Western? Tubby 47?

 

Will I ever be able to purchase a class 86 with a decent roof not incorporating a domestic clothes airer for a pantograph. Yes, but only when Hornby revamp their own model I would think.

 

 

 

Bully boy tactics, well maybe, but these are commercial companies, not clubs or co-operatives. They have to protect themselves as they see fit. Overall I am very happy with what Barwell and Margate make for me, and am delighted that one of them will produce a good quality model of a type I can just about justify purchasing.

 

 

 

 

 

Overall this announcment should be applauded, simply because it has a good chance of being a good quality model, satisfying the hobby we all enjoy, at a price we are more likely to be able to afford.

 

 

 

 

Am fed up with that that Clayton feeling. "suppose i should be grateful........it's allright.........bit pricy for what you get........runs a bit lumpy.........no sound.........could have been better......."

 

 

 

 

Just wish Bachmann or Hornby would make me a definitive class 33…….. with sound! It you happen to be listening chaps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[craigwelsh]

Certainly makes sense to hide the motor in the power car than do a cl150 on a centre car..

[Ian J.]

My understanding from a conversation today is that there will be two powered power cars. I must stress that it was a conversation and not covered definitively in the specification at the head of the topic.

 

That would be an interesting turn of events. I thought that manufacturers shied away from having two separate motors due to the stresses on them from slightly different rotational speeds... Is there anyway to synchronize two motors electrically? If so, I imagine the emergence of power transfering couplings for the lighting and DCC might also allow a sync signal to be passed as well...?

[coachmann]

I'm not at all well up on model diesels, but wouldn't the Blue Pullman be produced along the same lines as any other Unit such as an HST, ie: with the motor in the power cars?

[James]

However, they have always gone back at some point and corrected the mistake.

 

Just like they have with the class 40?!

[the fuzzler]

Not really, we can just discuss facts rather than fiction.

 

 

 

It's a part of life that some know more than others in certain circumstances.

 

 

 

In that case you probably believe politicians, I seriously wonder how many of you forget that to the manufacturers this is their business and not "toy" trains - they will produce whatever they think will sell and make them money, it's not a school yard.

 

 

 

Maybe you would like to provide some evidence that the lead times were "convenient" - or are you merely speculating ?

 

Really nice friendly post, not belittling at all !

 

I speak only as an observer. In who's interest (other than a bullying manufacturer) is it to announce products as forthcoming, and then dawdle bout.

 

It puts a marker down and queers the pitch for everyone else. Who else would have produced a 150 after bachmanns announcement way back when ? Ok, they claim to have had problems getting drawings, but the time taken from announcement to product_in_shops was a conveniently (for them) long time.

 

Finally enough, their other mythical model (the windhoff mpv) has also finally sneaked out into daylight too , and that must be at least three years since initial announcement.

 

Other posts on here mention the 3mt as being better in terms of time into the shops, so maybe they have upper their game, and proved me wrong.

 

Of course, its pure speculation (as I speculate most threads like this are) but so what ? And if you know "the facts" and they're different, then put them here and explain how you know that you're correct.

 

I wonder how many on here are involved in the model trade in a senior management/planning role ?

[Andy Y]

(other than a bullying manufacturer)

 

snips...

 

I wonder how many on here are involved in the model trade in a senior management/planning role ?

 

a.) I've already explained I am not happy about this 'bullying' terminology, especially when facts have been explained. Further repetition may lead to removal of that content or access.

 

b.) On the second point representatives of most of the UK manufacturers are here or read the content.

 

I'm not sure what your second point is driving at but when you link answers a) and b.) I hope you can appreciate my annoyance with your phraseology.

[ikks]

Can't believe some this stuff, this announcement means we can all get one at a reasonable price and if recent releases are anything to go by......great quality at an affordable price.

 

GREAT STUFF Bachy

['CHARD]

Just like they have with the class 40?!

 

Steady on, old bean - poking tigers with sticks that shape will surely elicit remarks from somewhere to the effect that D211 in green with DCC sound was promised by Palitoy in 1978 and isn't this typical of how long etc etc etc....

[James]

Steady on, old bean - poking tigers with sticks that shape will surely elicit remarks from somewhere to the effect that D211 in green with DCC sound was promised by Palitoy in 1978 and isn't this typical of how long etc etc etc....

 

 

No doubt the effect of "a bullying manufacturer"?!

[bmg]

Thank you for posting details of the announcement.

 

I hope this is a good sign for the industry in general. In the last 12 months I have bought less and less Hornby stuff to the point where my 2010 spend so far with them is zero whereas my spend with Bachmann is anything but zero. Now that Bachmann have announced the Bl.. Pu...... maybe Hornby can announce something.

[Guest stuartp]

Now that Bachmann have announced the Bl.. Pu...... maybe Hornby can announce something.

 

B**** G****** ?

[amdaley]

Perhaps its human nature how we always look for conspiracy theories in every announcement & always try to find the wrong in what people say. Perhaps Bachmann are whiter than the driven snow,perhaps not. All that matters is the we the modelers may get a top class model at a reasonable price. I know I am tired of (unlimited) limited editions. Only 500 being made "Buy now before they're all gone" Incidentally someone remind me of why Olivia's were commissioning this model ? I thought it was because they loved us all

[beast66606]

Really nice friendly post, not belittling at all !

 

 

I speak only as an observer. In who's interest (other than a bullying manufacturer) is it to announce products as forthcoming, and then dawdle bout.

 

It is in no-ones interest (bullying ? get real) which is why it is not deliberate but if you believe the conspiracy angle then see below.

 

It puts a marker down and queers the pitch for everyone else. Who else would have produced a 150 after bachmanns announcement way back when ? Ok, they claim to have had problems getting drawings, but the time taken from announcement to product_in_shops was a conveniently (for them) long time.

 

ANYONE could still produce the BP, even after Bachmann have now (also) announced it, or even after it's on the market, whether that makes commercial sense is a separate issue - *you* could do it if you want to invest the time, effort and money and believe there is a market for another version.

 

Finally enough, their other mythical model (the windhoff mpv) has also finally sneaked out into daylight too , and that must be at least three years since initial announcement.

 

It's not mythical and "so what ?" if it takes 3 years, thats their problem, not yours (or even ours), *they* run the risk of being gazumped if the delay is long.

 

Other posts on here mention the 3mt as being better in terms of time into the shops, so maybe they have upper their game, and proved me wrong.

 

I am pretty certain that they did not up their game just to prove you wrong - I have a strong feeling they are tuning their processes and therefore the "announcement to layout" time is getting better understood and more accurate, however I still prefer they delay things, if needed, to get the model right - before production. What ? you hadn't considered that as a reason why sometimes things do take longer than expected ?

 

I'm afraid your post is probably one of the reasons why we don't get *interaction* from most manufacturers, accusing them of "bully boy" tactics and then criticising them for delays (the reasons about which you have no knowledge) when they aren't here would hardly encourage them to actually enter into any form of interactive debate and run the risk of even more rants.

 

Lets get back to facts ?

[The Stationmaster]

Thank you for posting details of the announcement.

 

I hope this is a good sign for the industry in general. In the last 12 months I have bought less and less Hornby stuff to the point where my 2010 spend so far with them is zero whereas my spend with Bachmann is anything but zero. Now that Bachmann have announced the Bl.. Pu...... maybe Hornby can announce something.

 

Well according to today's MREMag they have annouced that they have sent the old B... P...... tools to China for examination and that they happen to still have a complete set of drawings of all vehicles. However Mr K seems to have hinted that he still remains sceptical of the commercial case - so hopefully in the light of the news from Bachmann he'll make more money out of selling them the drawings than he would have made knocking out a competing model.

[RedgateModels]

Oh I think a Railroad version using the old tooling and a new Motor bogie is pretty certian now, but then what do I know, I was convinced Duke of Gloucester would be in the last round of announcements. Still hope to be proved right on that one sometime

[Ceptic]

Snip / "

 

I know that there will be the inevitable criticism about jumping on a band wagon, but lets not forget that the 4CEPS ran through Margate for 50 years, Bachmann model it and hey presto, here comes a 4 VEP in a red box. So hasty was the decision to get the 4 VEP into the Margate range that their catalogue pictures looked like an awful after thought. So they are all guilty of that a little bit " / Snip

 

 

 

Maybe a little known fact, and going completely off topic, but Triang (Hornby) had previously produced a model of a 4-CEP (DMSO Only), back in 1963.

A static model in pewter, mounted on a wooden plinth and presented to Sir Brian Robertson at opening of the Kent Coast Electrification scheme.

The only thing was, it was made to 3mm./ft. (TT guage). If Triang had followed it through, (I did lobby them at the time) and made a full set, r.t.r., I wouldn't be where I am today. I'd have been modelling in 3mm.

 

Cheers.

[Implacable]

Just like they have with the class 40?!

 

Well, to be honest we have been waiting an awful long time for the class models in the catalogue to appear, too long for just are-livery i think.

I would bet that they are up to something

[Guest baldrick25]

The smoke now is clearing, and it seems Bachmann are producing the Midland Pullman only , as 2x 3-car units ( keeps the costs down). Bachmann have no plans to produce the Western Pullman , but Olivias Trains /Heljan have identified the differences, and they will be.

Its unlikely that the intercoach couplings will be the same between manufacturers, so there could be a bit of bashing to suit. Bachmann offering will have working lighting throughout, and sound is also a prospect for the future.

[Horsetan]

Just got back on my chair and checked the diary...nope its not April !!

 

Same here. Thought it was a practical joke at first!

 

Blimey, this is getting really interesting now.

Wonder what will happen to the Olivias/Heljan project?

 

As a disinterested observer, I'd think that it may take the wind out of the latter's sails / sales perhaps only slightly, but depends how far down the road they've got with the project. If tooling is about to or has already been done, then it might be a bit late to turn back now.....

[Ian J.]

The smoke now is clearing, and it seems Bachmann are producing the Midland Pullman only , as 2x 3-car units ( keeps the costs down). Bachmann have no plans to produce the Western Pullman , but Olivias Trains /Heljan have identified the differences, and they will be.

Its unlikely that the intercoach couplings will be the same between manufacturers, so there could be a bit of bashing to suit. Bachmann offering will have working lighting throughout, and sound is also a prospect for the future.

Eh Bachmann have updated their website to say it will be a single six car unit, not 2 x 3 car, so what is the source for that news?

[Trains4U]

And so it came to pass...

 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/14984-blue-pullman-and-class-76-limited-edition/page__st__350

 

Indicating an intent to produce does not mean that another manufacturer will not produce the same model. in fact, as the range of options (for D&E particularly) grows smaller this is increasingly likely to happen. Will a retailer invest a substantial sum on a deposit, only to find another manufacturer is two years down the line on research and tooling, will beat them to market and will undercut on price?

 

For Olivia's to continue with the BP project now would be commercial suicide.

I hope that their other projects don't go the same way (Though I'm bemused by some of the fictitious livery commissions they've gone for).

 

It is a very risky business and best left to those with the experience and/or capital to see it through.

 

BTW I had no prior knowledge of this announcement and came as a surprise to me when told on the phone yesterday.

[Guest baldrick25]

Eh Bachmann have updated their website to say it will be a single six car unit, not 2 x 3 car, so what is the source for that news?

 

Don't misunderstand me - its a six car box set, but construction its is 2 of each of 3 cars. Source is someone who was at the Bachmann launch yesterday and questioned those with the info. ie identical power cars ( except for numbering) etc. Its half the mouldings that need to be produced - does that explain it better.

[Rugd1022]

What a great bit of news, something to look forward to and priced just about right I'd say. It wouldn't surprise me that by the time it's in the shops, one of our friendly small suppliers will have announced some jumper cable castings to make the post 1967 twelve car lash up possible without Bachmann having to do it.

 

As for livery variations - it might seem that there weren't that many, but the application of all yellow ends onto the original Nanking Blue varied a bit between power cars so there's still some scope for a bit of old fashioned modelling once they're out. I haven't placed an order yet but do fancy the idea of putting yellow ends and jumper cables on a six car set if Bachmann don't get around to it. An eight car WR set in reverse grey / blue would be just the ticket!

 

It's been a long time coming but I think Bachmann's announcement will turn out to be the best route to a finished model of what (to some of us) is a very special bit of machinery. I never saw it in action but did see the withdrawn sets parked up at Old Oak, as forlorn as they undoubtedly looked, they still managed to exude a certain charisma and sinister charm alongside the Hymeks and Westerns of the day.

 

Now where's that Kevin Robertson book gone to....?

 

Nidge